snowychap Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 (edited) 15 hours ago, Awol said: Sterling being lower is a very good thing, a competitive devaluation that is very beneficial given our current account deficit. I don't know that one can make the case that it will have much of a beneficial effect for the current account unless one believes that the pound has passed a tipping point that it hadn't passed in, say, Feb when it was about 4% higher (about $1.38) or that it will continue to tank. Edited July 3, 2016 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Oh well I'm going to sort myself out. I'll apply for Irish citizenship through my granddad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 3, 2016 The Leave campaign was 'dishonest on an industrial scale'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 SCAREMONGERING!!! WHO NEEDS FACTS AND QUALIFICATIONS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 23 hours ago, Awol said: Mexico, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, India, Canada, Australia & New Zealand. Could offset all the items made in these countries in my household with the European contents of the fridge. The contents of the fridge change weekly. Also these new trade deals will be negotiated under the Tories. It was they that insisted the more sinister parts of TTIP be retained earlier in negotiations. Reckless gambling, and clearings in the woods are holding the cards. Going to need one feck of an unlikely winning streak to come out of this up. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Tony Blair saying we should consider our options whether we should leave or not depending on the will of the people. Thats like having an election and people not liking what wthey are getting so the other party takes over. Thats not how democracy works Tony! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, PaulC said: Tony Blair saying we should consider our options whether we should leave or not depending on the will of the people. Thats like having an election and people not liking what wthey are getting so the other party takes over. Thats not how democracy works Tony! Not quite. A general election is binding. This referendum was not. It was advisory. Parliament has the ultimate say and they can ignore it if needs be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 It's a funny word, democracy. An Office is voting on their Christmas meal venue and Location XYZ wins by 11 votes to 9. Then it turns out the menu presented to everybody from Location XYZ is wrong, is it still fair democracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 7 minutes ago, Xann said: Going to need one feck of an unlikely winning streak to come out of this up. By the time the economic dust has settled (and people can't even agree on that time frame), it will be difficult to compare against what the UK and it's economy would have been like if we had remained in the EU. I'm sure Leavers will say that we would have suffered from massive failures in the level of public services due to large immigration numbers overloading 'the system'. I also predict Remainers will be claiming everything would have been fine if only we hadn't left. Then there's the uncertainty of what the EU's long term economic and political outlook will be over those years. Perhaps we will have been better off out of that. Even time won't tell as their won't be indisputable facts on either side. To add to the above, there are those Leavers who are quite willing to accept a certain level of disruption to the economy for what being outside the EU means to them. Unless I had lived the experience of a thousand lives scattered across all communities of the UK, I'd find it difficult to criticise anyone's referendum decision and I don't think anyone will ever be able to be categorically proved wrong or correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: It's a funny word, democracy. An Office is voting on their Christmas meal venue and Location XYZ wins by 11 votes to 9. Then it turns out the menu presented to everybody from Location XYZ is wrong, is it still fair democracy? Depend, if the real Location XYZ has a menu with stuff like "Cake or Death" then maybe spin that wheel one more time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 31 minutes ago, Chindie said: Not quite. A general election is binding. This referendum was not. It was advisory. Parliament has the ultimate say and they can ignore it if needs be. So if the information given by the brexit campaign was false then there are grounds for a 2nd referendum. I think thats the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 3, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2016 15 minutes ago, brommy said: I don't think anyone will ever be able to be categorically proved wrong or correct. Many of the lies will be proved to be such pretty quickly. We've already seen Cameron's lie about immediately invoking article 50 to have been a lie. We've already seen Osborne's statement about doing a "[punishment] budget" to have been a lie. We already know the 350 million a week for the NHS was a lie. We already know Gove saying he would never stand for PM was a lie. The immigration promises will be shown to be lies, in due course. The video Chindie posted above debunks many of the other lies told by Leave. They might be dry legal lies, but they're still out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Gove pledging 100m (only just in line with inflation) a week for the NHS budget so soon after the 350m pledge is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 43 minutes ago, PaulC said: So if the information given by the brexit campaign was false then there are grounds for a 2nd referendum. I think thats the way to go. Where's the emergency budget and world war 3? Both sides lied. Neither side directly lied about the actual question on the actual ballot paper. If we have another referendum and remain wins, should we make it best of three? I voted remain. It really is time to move on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 3, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2016 8 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I voted remain. It really is time to move on. Possibly. Do you think that whatever deal we eventually get, regardless of whether it's brilliant or terrible should be something that we just go with? or should we at some point have a bit if a collective think, and say before we take this offer, let's just have a wee vote about it? Obviously that's difficult to do, because we're told once we press the article 50 button, we're on an irreversible path to leaving, but personally I think that the democracy part has been done all wrong. We voted the way we all did, based on a bunch of threats, lies, misunderstandings and desire to kick Cameron up the arse or whatever. It's just a mess. So I think I'm wondering if it's better to tidy up the mess, or to "move on". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 (edited) What we dont need are all these internal party wranglings when there are so many important decisions to make. Edited July 3, 2016 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 41 minutes ago, blandy said: Possibly. Do you think that whatever deal we eventually get, regardless of whether it's brilliant or terrible should be something that we just go with? or should we at some point have a bit if a collective think, and say before we take this offer, let's just have a wee vote about it? I think experience has taught us that the answer is yes , just don't let the people anywhere near it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 3, 2016 Experience has taught us that if you lie outrageously, on a subject with little inherent established truth in the populace, then a vote might be a swayed your way. Not quite not letting people decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 51 minutes ago, blandy said: Possibly. Do you think that whatever deal we eventually get, regardless of whether it's brilliant or terrible should be something that we just go with? or should we at some point have a bit if a collective think, and say before we take this offer, let's just have a wee vote about it? Obviously that's difficult to do, because we're told once we press the article 50 button, we're on an irreversible path to leaving, but personally I think that the democracy part has been done all wrong. We voted the way we all did, based on a bunch of threats, lies, misunderstandings and desire to kick Cameron up the arse or whatever. It's just a mess. So I think I'm wondering if it's better to tidy up the mess, or to "move on". We need a serious conversation with the rest of the EU. That can only be done once we have a conservative leader. If it's true that the other EU states really won't negotiate until after we have left then we have a spectacularly serious problem. So serious, you would have to question why nobody told us that this would be the order of events. I was interested and I followed it fairly closely, I didn't know there was no negotiation until after we left. If that is true and that's what is going to happen then the whole remain side of the government need some serious sanction against them for being so derelict in their duty to us. They are all damaged goods, they have all lied for their internal party politics. A real low point in our politics. But they'll get away with it. But, the nation voted to leave. They didn't vote to have a look at what was on offer. they didn't vote to have another round of rock paper scissors. We've got a crisis on our hands and the only thing we can take to the bank is a majority of more than a million votes for leave. Perhaps even the formulation of the question needs to be investigated and actions taken against the negligent. That the young couldn't quite be arsed to vote and now want another chance is a life lesson for them. But just thinking 'ooh I don't like it, let's concoct reasons to void the referendum', well that's not good enough. That's dangerously undemocratic and about as lobotomy stupid as just saying don't let old people vote. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 3, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2016 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: I didn't know there was no negotiation until after we left. ? Who says that is the case? It wasn't in my post you quoted, Chris, unless I've gone quite, quite insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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