Richard Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Just now, sexbelowsound said: Tbh Richard it's not anyone's job to convince you of anything. If you're in then great, if not then its your choice. I wont argue with you I would just say that in order to build a good protest movement ideally you should be looking to convince as many as possible to join with you, the larger the protest group the more likely to be heard so i do not totally agree with your comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 1 minute ago, Richard said: I wont argue with you I would just say that in order to build a good protest movement ideally you should be looking to convince as many as possible to join with you, the larger the protest group the more likely to be heard so i do not totally agree with your comment We have convinced as many as possible. We can't convince everyone and like Mark said we can do no more than we already have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said: We have convinced as many as possible. We can't convince everyone and like Mark said we can do no more than we already have. I appreciate that I really do and I am not dissing anyone or their efforts believe me. It's just that I find myself as a former person advocating protest and action to now thinking "whats the point" and I'd think this protest weariness may apply to a few others as well? So a restating of the need for it may help, if not me, others ? Like I say not looking for an argument or to diss it at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 1 minute ago, Richard said: I appreciate that I really do and I am not dissing anyone or their efforts believe me. It's just that I find myself as a former person advocating protest and action to now thinking "whats the point" and I'd think this protest weariness may apply to a few others as well? So a restating of the need for it may help, if not me, others ? Like I say not looking for an argument or to diss it at all I'm not arguing Rich. If others are starting to become apathetic then of course we'll listen to the reasons for that. My issue was with the needing to convince part. We've done that and then some. As I said though we are always willing to listen and take on board anything people say in regards to future protests. If we're not in this together then there are no future protests tbh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Richard said: I appreciate that I really do and I am not dissing anyone or their efforts believe me. It's just that I find myself as a former person advocating protest and action to now thinking "whats the point" and I'd think this protest weariness may apply to a few others as well? So a restating of the need for it may help, if not me, others ? Like I say not looking for an argument or to diss it at all The aims haven't changed Richard so why do you now think what is the point and need convincing when you were behind it before? We have had success as well as like I say we believe we at least partially influenced Lerners statement. Regardless of that being the case or not nothing has changed in terms of what we hope to achieve. I also reiterated what it is we want to achieve/want actioned in my previous post to you. Edited April 26, 2016 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 26, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2016 Quote To make a public statement indicating that you are once again motivated to sell the club at a price at which Aston Villa can be sold to a person, or persons, with the means and vision to restore this club to its rightful place. You must then follow through on this pledge. Whilst a buyer is found we require you to make the necessary changes to ensure that Aston Villa is ran with the intention of winning football matches. That must include a guarantee from yourself to provide the necessary financial support to achieve this aim. You must also ensure that people with the correct expertise and a proven track record are brought into the club to provide the tools for the Manager to succeed. I think I get where Richard's coming from - the quote is from the AVPG letter to RL posted earlier on in this thread - So I think part of the problem/confusion is that the 3 aims are kind of incompatible. He's done the first one. So the other 2 are not really possible - whilst trying to sell as fast as possible, he cannot realistically implement changes or appoint people. So kind of carrying with the same message and demands on is a bit confusing. We're down, the club's for sale, the owner is on his way out. What are the demands now that you're protesting about/for? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, blandy said: I think I get where Richard's coming from - the quote is from the AVPG letter to RL posted earlier on in this thread - So I think part of the problem/confusion is that the 3 aims are kind of incompatible. He's done the first one. So the other 2 are not really possible - whilst trying to sell as fast as possible, he cannot realistically implement changes or appoint people. So kind of carrying with the same message and demands on is a bit confusing. We're down, the club's for sale, the owner is on his way out. What are the demands now that you're protesting about/for? Pete we believe they are compatible mate. It could take him months or years to sell the club. In the mean time he shouldn't negate his responsibility for the club just because it is up for sale. He still needs to put things in place to ensure in the time it does take him to sell we can still be competitive. His failure to do that has led us to where we are now. The club has been up for sale for coming up two years. Had he at that time put some proven football nous on to the board there is a good chance we would never have found ourselves with a manager who had never purchased or sold a player before over seeing a huge overhaul in players last summer. That is just one massive example of what could have been prevented. At the end of the day though as soon as the club is sold or looks on the verge of being sold then we will happily walk away. I certainly personally have zero desire to continue to protest or try to encourage others to do so if everything points to there being an imminent change in owner. I don't believe we are at that point though. Edited April 26, 2016 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 26, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2016 1 minute ago, markavfc40 said: Pete we believe they are compatible mate. It could take him months or years to sell the club. It could yeah, unfortunately. But I think genuine effort to sell the club asap means he is restricted in terms of employing people and so on. It makes it harder to appoint managers and players and so on. It's what I mean about the incompatibility. If he takes steps to sell asap it's not reasonable to expect him to recruit the next Graham Taylor (we hope) as manager, or to commit the club to outlay of millions on new players wages and fees over the next 3 to 4 years. Quote ... His failure to do that has led us to where we are now. The club has been up for sale for coming up two years. Had he at that time put some proven football nous on to the board there is a good chance we would never have found ourselves with a manager who had never purchased or sold a player before over seeing a huge overhaul in players last summer. That is just one massive example of what could have been prevented. I totally and completely agree Mark. I completely get the annoyance, regret and frustration and anger at what's happened and the right to demonstrate about it. Good on you for doing so and all the effort and time and cost. It's just that like Richard ( I think) maybe the direction being taken is slightly blurry and has run or almost run its course? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) @blandy I am not sure what to say Pete without sounding like a broken record. It depends on if you believe the club is close to a sale I guess. Personally I have massive doubts that it is but I would love to be proven wrong. I guess that is the angle we come at this from that we don't believe the club is close to a sale and therefore do think the other things within that open letter are still very relevant. I don't know if you, Richard and others do believe that we are close to a sale but if you do think we are then I fully understand why you would not expect the other things to be put in place. If I felt that way then neither would I as clearly that would be totally unrealistic. My fall back stance on this is as I said really. Two years ago we were put up for sale. Last March due diligence was apparently being undertaken by a potential buyer. It never materialised and due to things not being right in positions above the manager, lack of proven football nous etc, this massively contributed to where we are now. We can't in another twelve months look back and say if only we had this and this in place then this might not have happened as Christ knows where we may be heading. Edited April 26, 2016 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Blandy, summed it up for me I'm afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 26, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2016 @markavfc40 That makes sense.I don't think anyone knows if the club will be sold soon or not. There's good reason to think either it will or it won't. Obviously if you're sure or tend to think it won't be, then carrying on makes sense, maybe. Edit - and it's a free world. you're quite entitled to carry on, and obviously plenty of people are of the same mind as you guys. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) 23 hours ago, Richard said: Blandy, summed it up for me I'm afraid Sound Richard. No hard feelings but assuming you were part of the previous protests can you please return your banner Edited April 27, 2016 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 26, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 26, 2016 Well if Richard's out, I'm out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Seeing as Stan wants to try to play again let's sing his name on 19 minutes A proper Villan who puts this lot to shame!!! Protests don't have to be negative all the time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova26 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Continues this season. Ends start of next season. Only 1 game left for protest so lets make it good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 52 minutes ago, dn1982 said: Seeing as Stan wants to try to play again let's sing his name on 19 minutes A proper Villan who puts this lot to shame!!! Protests don't have to be negative all the time. Cool idea, singing songs of players that actually cared and left as heroes ! singing about Mcgrath, Mellberg and Laursen and such And boo the current players, except for a couple of them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted April 27, 2016 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 27, 2016 On 26 April 2016 at 18:37, blandy said: It could yeah, unfortunately. But I think genuine effort to sell the club asap means he is restricted in terms of employing people and so on. It makes it harder to appoint managers and players and so on. It's what I mean about the incompatibility. If he takes steps to sell asap it's not reasonable to expect him to recruit the next Graham Taylor (we hope) as manager, or to commit the club to outlay of millions on new players wages and fees over the next 3 to 4 years. I totally and completely agree Mark. I completely get the annoyance, regret and frustration and anger at what's happened and the right to demonstrate about it. Good on you for doing so and all the effort and time and cost. It's just that like Richard ( I think) maybe the direction being taken is slightly blurry and has run or almost run its course? Completely disagree Pete with your final sentence. No disrespect mate, but I find that much of the criticism of the protests stems from the many who no longer go to games, others elsewhere who were tied to legacy of the Lerner regime, those that voiced support, but didn't participate or criticised from afar. If the protests serve no other purpose than to allow those who still go to VP to express their 'annoyance, regret, frustration and anger' they have succeeded. Personally I think AVPG has been incredibly consistent, rather than 'slightly blurry' and that they have had a greater impact than many acknowledge. Many fans do not trust the current regime and the departures of King/Bernstein suggest they are right no to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 21 hours ago, Chicken Field said: Cool idea, singing songs of players that actually cared and left as heroes ! singing about Mcgrath, Mellberg and Laursen and such And boo the current players, except for a couple of them. SALI! SALIFOOOOOOU! SALI! SALIFOOOOOOOOOOOU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 27, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 27, 2016 16 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Completely disagree Pete with your final sentence. No disrespect mate, but I find that much of the criticism of the protests stems from the many who no longer go to games, others elsewhere who were tied to legacy of the Lerner regime, those that voiced support, but didn't participate or criticised from afar. If the protests serve no other purpose than to allow those who still go to VP to express their 'annoyance, regret, frustration and anger' they have succeeded. Personally I think AVPG has been incredibly consistent, rather than 'slightly blurry' and that they have had a greater impact than many acknowledge. Many fans do not trust the current regime and the departures of King/Bernstein suggest they are right no to. That's fine Mike. I have no idea whether people with different views to yours go or don't go, or etc. (You're right in my case, I don't go any more). I'd be wary of (not that you are) dismissing opposing views or comment from people "because they don't go"). I agree and have said that I admire the efforts you've gone to collectively to do the protests and all that. And good on you for doing it. I do think the message is blurry - though as Mark explained and I then answered, I understand why you guys don't. That's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissmith921 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 This is my last Villa game for a long time as moving away - if it was any other - yes I'd walk out but this I'm staying to the bitter end. I've been going since 88 so I'm choosing to at least take in the ground etc before I don't get to go back for a long while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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