Xela Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 14 hours ago, Genie said: Big Sam spoke quite warmly of Villa after the game. Allardyce would crawl over broken glass to manage Villa. Even if he kept Sunderland up and we go down, I still think he would come here if we approached him. He would be exactly the type of manager we need in that situation. Villa is still a huge job, even when we line up in the Championship 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I wanted Sherwood sacked before the season started. As I said I only think we should stick with Garde as long as we see some signs of improvement from now until the end of the season. Hopefully once we get our first win and few good signings things will improve and we can that into next season, whichever division we're in (I haven't entirely given up on survival) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted January 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: We do need continuity but it needs to be under the right manager. Perhaps you were but I don't remember many of us screaming for continuity under Sherwood. Based on what I have seen so far if I was asked if we should trust Garde with the medium to long term future of this club in terms of managing it then I would have to say no as I could not put up one single coherent argument based on what I have seen so far for why he should be entrusted with it. As you say if he shows improvement between now and the end of the season then he may well warrant being given beyond this season in charge. What I would say is though if this run without a win was to continue for too much longer, say another half a dozen games, then I'd be surprised, regardless of what Fox has said, if he were to still be here at the end of the season. 23 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: We do need continuity but it needs to be under the right manager. Perhaps you were but I don't remember many of us screaming for continuity under Sherwood. Based on what I have seen so far if I was asked if we should trust Garde with the medium to long term future of this club in terms of managing it then I would have to say no as I could not put up one single coherent argument based on what I have seen so far for why he should be entrusted with it. As you say if he shows improvement between now and the end of the season then he may well warrant being given beyond this season in charge. What I would say is though if this run without a win was to continue for too much longer, say another half a dozen games, then I'd be surprised, regardless of what Fox has said, if he were to still be here at the end of the season. Mark, I appreciate that you are not claiming there is some white knight in shining armour who can save us, but other than suggesting Garde could/should be sacked soon, you do not offer suggestions as to what we should do next. I would not trust the clowns that run the club to hire another manger so why do think the next one, or the next one and so on ad finitum would be any better? I realise it is totally subjective and that there is little evidence but I believe Garde could make a difference in the long term. As I said in an earlier post, sacking Garde will imho do nothing more than slake the fans anger. Edited January 3, 2016 by MikeMcKenna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 2 hours ago, lexicon said: The issue at hand here is that this isn't Garde's team - he didn't assemble it, he didn't sign anyone and he has to deal with the situation at hand. If he's backed in the transfer window and we see what he can do, then we are in a position to really judge the guy. Its only an excuse though, could say the same for Big Sam but he has got 4 wins at Sunderland with equally shit players. Fact is Garde has been horrible appointment and we have gone backwards under him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 29 minutes ago, Genie said: Does anyone else think we're underachieving too? I know we are not CL standard but when I look at the individual ability of the majority of the players and the glimpses of decent periods of play we should not be rooted to the bottom. For me this is where the coaching team are failing. I would like to believe that but I think the players are actually crap at this level. Players like Guzan, Gestede, Gil (wondergoal aside), Hutton are not good enough for this level along with about 12 other players in the squad How many of these players will be chased after come the summer. Ayew, Amavi maybe Okore, Veretout, Grealish and Richards. that will be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: I think this is ridiculous. Xenophobia? Utter nonsense. Our summer signings on the whole have not been good enough and the remaining players have been just as shit. Regardless of where they're from a lot of players have deservedly been criticised this season for their contribution to our relegation. The English lads we have are Richards, lescott, westwood, gabby and Grealish and all have been criticised to a similar level to the over seas players we've signed. Who do you think has come in for unfair stick compared to other players? From what I've seen the overseas players seem to have come in for more criticism. You often hear people just slate them all as if they're all the same when someone like Ayew has done a lot better than say, Gueye for example. Perhaps xenophobia is too strong a word but it does seem like British or at least British-based players (and managers) are given more leniency compared to those from abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, Zatman said: Its only an excuse though, could say the same for Big Sam but he has got 4 wins at Sunderland with equally shit players. Fact is Garde has been horrible appointment and we have gone backwards under him Yeah it's really not acceptable. He's had some pretty easy fixtures as well, criminal to only get 2 points from the last 4. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, AVFCAM said: Correct it's not his team, but how many managers take over and get nothing at all out their new players...you'd at least expect something from a manager of Premier League standard. An F1 driver may not be familiar with a different true of racing car, but he'd be able to wrestle some kind of decent performance from it. (Not a brilliant analogy there) also, I don't want him backed in the window, we'd be much better building for next season and using this next few months to get the squad playing. That's what BrawnGP did, wrote off that season, worked on next seasons car and then won the championship as they'd spent so much time working on it. (I'm not an F1 fan...I just know those bits) In My opinion successive managers sign new faces but the same type of player they plan to replace. I think we are simply singing the wrong types, over and over again. just as a brief example.... but there are rakes of examples. Would we have signed Vardy from Fleetwood......Never in a million years would we have signed Mahrez from Le Havre....... WHAT a second division french player @ £ 350,000 ...... we will be in the championship at this rate. We all need to wise up......We have a Great Football Club ( as an institution) but a very poor football team......We need to understand that when we go shopping. Edited January 3, 2016 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Just now, Mantis said: From what I've seen the overseas players seem to have come in for more criticism. You often hear people just slate them all as if they're all the same when someone like Ayew has done a lot better than say, Gueye for example. Perhaps xenophobia is too strong a word but it does seem like British or at least British-based players (and managers) are given more leniency compared to those from abroad. But that's not true at all. The English players in our squad have had just as much criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, Mantis said: From what I've seen the overseas players seem to have come in for more criticism. You often hear people just slate them all as if they're all the same when someone like Ayew has done a lot better than say, Gueye for example. Perhaps xenophobia is too strong a word but it does seem like British or at least British-based players (and managers) are given more leniency compared to those from abroad. far from true. most criticized players in our squad is Gabby, Grealish, Westwood, Guzan, Richardson, Lescott, SInclair and Richards 7 of them are English 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Mark, I appreciate that you are not claiming there is some white knight in shining armour who can save us, but other than suggesting Garde could/should be sacked soon, you do not offer suggestions as to what we should do next. I would not trust the clowns that run the club to hire another manger so why do think the next one, or the next one and so on ad finitum would be any better? I realise it is totally subjective and that there is little evidence but I believe Garde could make a difference in the long term. As I said in an earlier post, sacking Garde will imho do nothing more than slake than fans anger. Mike my counter argument to that would be what makes you think Garde is the man to make a difference in the long term? make the difference that Lambert, McLeish and Sherwood couldn't make? certainly in terms of McLeish and Sherwood in the main as a fan base we showed them no slack. Garde has very little managerial experience. He had three years managing Lyon and at best you'd say he achieved about what would be at expected of a manager there. Since he has been here he has failed to show zero improvement on what his predecessor got out of this squad. No more points, no more goals, we are worse defensively, we don't create anymore etc etc. Some players most notably Ayew, Veretout and Lescott have looked better under him others like Richards, Sinclair, Gana, Gestede have looked worse. I don't know if Garde will prove to be a good manager. I don't see how any of us do apart from taking a huge leap of faith. Based on what I have seen so far though I am not sure why that leap of faith should be shown in Garde any more than it should have been shown in his most recent predecessors. As for what we should do next or what we should have done I know some don't fancy a Pulis or an Allardyce or amazingly even a Moyes but for me anyone of them guys would have gotten more out of this club over the last few years and I'd certainly have more faith in one of them going forward than I would currently have in Garde. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 18 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Mark, I appreciate that you are not claiming there is some white knight in shining armour who can save us, but other than suggesting Garde could/should be sacked soon, you do not offer suggestions as to what we should do next. I would not trust the clowns that run the club to hire another manger so why do think the next one, or the next one and so on ad finitum would be any better? I realise it is totally subjective and that there is little evidence but I believe Garde could make a difference in the long term. As I said in an earlier post, sacking Garde will imho do nothing more than slake the fans anger. So just stick with Garde because the next manager might not be any good? What a fantastic plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Give him this window to stamp his own authority and if it still doesn't work out I would look at change but if I'm honest I don't blame him for the situation. I don't think he is a complete fool and think he has more about him than the previous clown but the club need to back him if they believe in him it's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Players like : Sinclair-Richards- Lescott.....Have had a touch of the high life lived off the back of playing with better foreign players and have come to us and been found out. Gabby-Grealish - have spent too much time having bubbles blown up their arse and think they are better than what they are Baker - Clark - Were never good enough to fill the boots of Mellberg and Laursen and the canteen lady would know that. Hutton-Richardson- cissokho - all failed/damaged goods Guzan-Steer-Bunn - If you played the 3 together only then may you feel safe.....sub standard. The french lads might not have given us the lift we was looking for .....But my god, to lift this motley crew was a big ask. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Zatman said: Its only an excuse though, could say the same for Big Sam but he has got 4 wins at Sunderland with equally shit players. Fact is Garde has been horrible appointment and we have gone backwards under him At best we have stayed the same which is surely not why we appointed him unless we were accepting relegation. The last two games we have gone backwards though. Yes we have moments of control but we don't create many chances yet give other teams plenty of chances to score. Yesterday we could easily have conceded 4 or 5. Edited January 3, 2016 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 We should have moved for Allardyce when he was available. He was appointed Sunderland boss then we sack Sherwood. The club cocked up (again!). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 16 minutes ago, Mantis said: From what I've seen the overseas players seem to have come in for more criticism. It's not even opinion, that statement is just wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted January 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Mike my counter argument to that would be what makes you think Garde is the man to make a difference in the long term? make the difference that Lambert, McLeish and Sherwood couldn't make? certainly in terms of McLeish and Sherwood in the main as a fan base we showed them no slack. Garde has very little managerial experience. He had three years managing Lyon and at best you'd say he achieved about what would be at expected of a manager there. Since he has been here he has failed to show zero improvement on what his predecessor got out of this squad. No more points, no more goals, we are worse defensively, we don't create anymore etc etc. Some players most notably Ayew, Veretout and Lescott have looked better under him others like Richards, Sinclair, Gana, Gestede have looked worse. I don't know if Garde will prove to be a good manager. I don't see how any of us do apart from taking a huge leap of faith. Based on what I have seen so far though I am not sure why that leap of faith should be shown in Garde any more than it should have been shown in his most recent predecessors. As for what we should do next or what we should have done I know some don't fancy a Pulis or an Allardyce or amazingly even a Moyes but for me anyone of them guys would have gotten more out of this club over the last few years and I'd certainly have more faith in one of them going forward than I would currently have in Garde. Unfortunately I have little more than a belief that he will eventually do well and simplistically based on what I have read of his footballing philosophy. I am instinctivelay against Pulis, Allardyce or even Moyes as I believe they represent the past and would do little to make AVFC a decent force again. They would be the same old treadmill. Obviously time will tell but I think Garde is not going anywhere and we will find out whether I am right or wrong over the next 18 months. Like everyone else I am resigned to Championship football now and just wish this ****** season was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 How about the fact that he led one of the most respected youth academies in the world, and then took them to the Champions League 2 out of 3 years while on budget restrictions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Unfortunately I have little more than a belief that he will eventually do well and simplistically based on what I have read of his footballing philosophy. I am instinctivelay against Pulis, Allardyce or even Moyes as I believe they represent the past and would do little to make AVFC a decent force again. They would be the same old treadmill. Obviously time will tell but I think Garde is not going anywhere and we will find out whether I am right or wrong over the next 18 months. Like everyone else I am resigned to Championship football now and just wish this ****** season was over. I'd have sooner one of those had kept us in this league, than the drop we're now facing...all day long. You're just hoping on a whim, from what I'm reading, that the long term will be better after we've been relegated under Garde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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