The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[chrisp65]

Poll from The Times for Boris to mull over...

Quote

people who used to oppose Scottish independence have switched to the “yes” camp, turning a 55%-45% vote against leaving the UK in the 2014 referendum into a 54%-46% lead

[HanoiVillan]

Keir Starmer too.

[ml1dch]

33 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Poll from The Times for Boris to mull over...

Obviously they'll pay it all the lip-service going, but do they actually care all that much? They were quite happy to cut Northern Ireland loose without a second thought. And without that 59 seat block which would usually be an impediment to a Conservative majority rather than a help they'll probably see the bright side. 

Not to mention a new "them" to rile up their dopey culture warriors.

Not to say they'd be actively trying to ditch it, but it's probably not too high up their list of priorities. 

[chrisp65]

8 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Obviously they'll pay it all the lip-service going, but do they actually care all that much? They were quite happy to cut Northern Ireland loose without a second thought. And without that 59 seat block which would usually be an impediment to a Conservative majority rather than a help they'll probably see the bright side. 

Not to mention a new "them" to rile up their dopey culture warriors.

Not to say they'd be actively trying to ditch it, but it's probably not too high up their list of priorities. 

If they were happy to have a policy of letting their core support die off due to covid, you’ve got to wonder how hard they’d try to keep Scotland.

Other than the PM not wanting to be the one that split the union. Even clown prince Johnson can’t want that to be what he’s known through history for. Killing 65,000, killing the Union, and dangling on a zip wire waving a little flag.

 

 

[bannedfromHandV]

11 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

If they were happy to have a policy of letting their core support die off due to covid, you’ve got to wonder how hard they’d try to keep Scotland.

Other than the PM not wanting to be the one that split the union. Even clown prince Johnson can’t want that to be what he’s known through history for. Killing 65,000, killing the Union, and dangling on a zip wire waving a little flag.

 

 

I think the sad thing is he sees all those things as an achievement and I’ll wager he’ll harp back to them regularly whilst doing the circuit as a motivational speaker once his political ‘career’ is over 

[HanoiVillan]

That data is interesting. Objectively, Scotland has a horrific death rate that is about the same as England's (obviously adjusting for population size). The principal difference is that the SNP have given polished, professional press conferences and (much) more sympathetic interviews, whereas the Tories have given us a callously incompetent clownshow. Obviously it helps to try to communicate well with the public in terms of the public's perception of you, but it really doesn't seem to have made much difference to the actual outcome that matters.

Nevertheless, the SNP ride high in the polls. They will undoubtedly win a huge proportion of seats in the Holyrood elections next year, and then the trouble starts. Because what happens next? The independence movement will consider it a mandate for another referendum, but Sturgeon is cautious. The Tories will probably say no, and what then? She could hold one anyway, like Catalonia, but while that might put pressure on Westminster it wouldn't help Scotland rejoin the EU. Spain will already be a barrier, but there's no chance they will allow a Scotland that has unilaterally declared independence to join the EU.

The Tories have a stronger hand than people give them credit for IMO. I expect that they will simply refuse to countenance another referendum, safe in the knowledge that doing so maintains the SNP's hegemony north of the border and gives the Tories a huge advantage in Westminster elections.

Edited July 5, 2020 by HanoiVillan

[chrisp65]

I think there’s a growing tactical awareness that another way to make progress is selling the idea of english independence.

 

 

[Xann]

Tax evasion for the chums matters more than the Union anyway.

[chrisp65]

15 minutes ago, Xann said:

Tax evasion for the chums matters more than the Union anyway.

Follow the money.

They’ll think they’re getting close to perpetual government and perpetual contracts for the boys. Lopping off a few areas that don’t underwrite the project wouldn’t be a massive wrench for them. Not if it means a few quid and a ride in a rich man’s plane to get a free hollybobs.

 

[HanoiVillan]

I don't see why it's an either/or. Right now they have both the union and the tax evasion, and I'm not seeing what can force them to give either up.

[Xann]

Just now, HanoiVillan said:

... I'm not seeing what can force them to give either up.

Depends how expensive restless natives get?

[HanoiVillan]

So stupid and so depressing:

This stupid **** berk, who went to Oxford because his important dad called them up and asked, wants dozens of universities to collapse. It's no time at all since the Conservatives attempted to appoint him as head of the 'Office For Students', the university regulator, who 'want every student to have a fulfilling experience of higher education that enriches their lives and careers' per their website.

Imagine being a representative for students interests, gloating in public at the prospect of the institutions they're studying in collapsing and all their efforts being for nothing. The frightening thing is the Tories chose him for that role because they basically agree with him.

[chrisp65]

This Toby Young guy, he’s the one that said he’d be a paedo or a rapist if he didn’t have a strong wife?

I think he might just be another one of these weird right wing self publicising shock jock masturbators.

Lives off clicks and other analytics so has to be more and more extreme to get a reaction.

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

This Toby Young guy, he’s the one that said he’d be a paedo or a rapist if he didn’t have a strong wife?

I think he might just be another one of these weird right wing self publicising shock jock masturbators.

Lives off clicks and other analytics so has to be more and more extreme to get a reaction.

Well kind of, except the difference between him and say, Katie Hopkins, is that the government keep trying to give him official roles with real responsibility.

[Chindie]

The world will be better place when Toby Young finally goes into his study with a tumbler of a fine malt, loops the power cord of the floor lamp around the the curtain rail and the other end round his neck, and steps off the chair to the soundtrack of sirens and heavy thumps at the door downstairs, his heels beating an urgent solo on the wall.

[welnik]

15 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Well kind of, except the difference between him and say, Katie Hopkins, is that the government keep trying to give him official roles with real responsibility.

And yet you're giving him the oxygen of publicity. You don't have to you know, you could just ignore him 

[chrisp65]

6 minutes ago, welnik said:

And yet you're giving him the oxygen of publicity. You don't have to you know, you could just ignore him 

It’s a tricky one.

With most of them, I’d agree, starve them of the clicks they crave. But as HV rightly points out this one is a bit different in that this clown government have already tried to get him appointed to a poi’s it ion of influence. So this one does need to be criticised for the wank merchant he is.

[blandy]

23 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

That data is interesting. Objectively, Scotland has a horrific death rate that is about the same as England's (obviously adjusting for population size). The principal difference is that the SNP have given polished, professional press conferences and (much) more sympathetic interviews, whereas the Tories have given us a callously incompetent clownshow. Obviously it helps to try to communicate well with the public in terms of the public's perception of you, but it really doesn't seem to have made much difference to the actual outcome that matters.

Nevertheless, the SNP ride high in the polls. They will undoubtedly win a huge proportion of seats in the Holyrood elections next year, and then the trouble starts. Because what happens next? The independence movement will consider it a mandate for another referendum, but Sturgeon is cautious. The Tories will probably say no, and what then? She could hold one anyway, like Catalonia, but while that might put pressure on Westminster it wouldn't help Scotland rejoin the EU. Spain will already be a barrier, but there's no chance they will allow a Scotland that has unilaterally declared independence to join the EU.

The Tories have a stronger hand than people give them credit for IMO. I expect that they will simply refuse to countenance another referendum, safe in the knowledge that doing so maintains the SNP's hegemony north of the border and gives the Tories a huge advantage in Westminster elections.

To add to that, my perception is the same, but there's a couple of other things. There's been a limited amount Scotland has the power to do differently, hence the similar outcomes. They've also made some of the same mistakes. They had no power to close their borders earlier, for example. They're reliant on the same SAGE data, particularly early on. It seems a bit like they've basically done more or less the same as England, just a few days later, to look like they're being "Independent", but that's about the size of it. They're reliant on the same Furloughing and all the rest and that's controlled by Westminster. I wonder what would have happened if Sturgeon had been in control of the UK response. It would probably have been done much better, but a lot of the problems ultimately result from UK wide policy over decades.

[snowychap]

Boris Johnson’s imperial premiership

Quote

Last Friday President Emmanuel Macron accepted the resignation of his government, and appointed a new one. That was quite widely reported as part of a reboot in the run-up to the next set of Presidential elections.

With much less fanfare, Boris Johnson is effectively downgrading his Cabinet and changing the way the UK is run.

The focus is on the ‘hard rain falling’ on the civil service – but the real change is the switch from collective cabinet government to an operation entirely run, in the name of the Prime Minister, from the centre.

First were the special advisers ... Next are the Comms teams ... Strengthening No.10 will diminish departments – and their secretaries of state ... The changes assume the Cabinet itself is the barrier to good government

Successive prime ministers have been frustrated by the way government works. Too few levers. No resources. Secretaries of state captured by their department.

That is why they have often experimented with changes: powerful policy advisers, delivery units, strategy units all designed to redress the balance. But this is the first time that the analysis has suggested that the real problem with cabinet government is the Cabinet itself.

The PM may think the first best solution – appoint a high calibre cabinet which shares your vision and can deliver – is not available to him. But at the scale of the UK government, it’s hard to see massive centralisation into Downing Street as the silver bullet which will solve these long diagnosed problems.

The FT has concluded that Macron’s move to “total control” leaves him “totally exposed”. Likewise the PM will find no hiding place.

 

[chrisp65]

Excellent news from Raaab, looks like we’re about to get really tough on Israel, Saudi and China.