Chindie Posted October 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 3, 2023 A speech by Braverman would be considered a success if she only managed to not do a Nazi salute, nor start gnawing on an asylum seekers leg like a chicken drumstick. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 3, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2023 10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: You’ll notice they’re currently being very cagey about the cost, I think it’s been a few years since they’ve run a full cost check. I think part of the problem now, is that they have no genuine idea what the cost is. They know exactly. Every month the HS2 programme reports their latest spend and projected spend figures to the treasury - they've known month by month for a decade where the costs sit, what's gone up (construction material costs, labour costs, re-jigging this and that costs...). This isn't an out of the blue thing "oh, look, suddenly the cost has doubled (or whatever)" - they've known exactly where they are. Yes stuff like war and energy prices have an impact on continuing cost increases, as does the price of steel and concrete, but Sunak and the others have had monthly updates for a decade or so. It's undoubtedly ridiculously expensive and the management of it by HS2 Ltd and by the Tories has been abject, but it's been picked for cancellation because of the next election, though I don't think it's going to help them like they think it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 1 minute ago, blandy said: They know exactly. Every month the HS2 programme reports their latest spend and projected spend figures to the treasury - they've known month by month for a decade where the costs sit, what's gone up (construction material costs, labour costs, re-jigging this and that costs...). This isn't an out of the blue thing "oh, look, suddenly the cost has doubled (or whatever)" - they've known exactly where they are. Yes stuff like war and energy prices have an impact on continuing cost increases, as does the price of steel and concrete, but Sunak and the others have had monthly updates for a decade or so. It's undoubtedly ridiculously expensive and the management of it by HS2 Ltd and by the Tories has been abject, but it's been picked for cancellation because of the next election, though I don't think it's going to help them like they think it will. Yes, I have experience of a number of large government building projects with detailed monthly accounting and reporting. That’s why I don’t think they have a clue how much its costing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Weirdos. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 3, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2023 Just now, chrisp65 said: Yes, I have experience of a number of large government building projects with detailed monthly accounting and reporting. That’s why I don’t think they have a clue how much its costing. I do too (though building new aeroplanes, rather than building railways). But there's a lot of read across, whether it's computer systems for ATC or the NHS, or whether it's railways or whether it's actual buildings or power stations or... The same things tend to impact big programmes. I don't agree they don't have a clue. I would agree they don't know the precise to the penny ultimate cost, but they know damned well the ballpark. As @sidcowposted a bit ago, there's all kinds of factors at play, and one of the biggest ones is short-sighted bean counting - by that I mean there will be an initial cost estimate and timescale estimate, then usually what happens is some aspect or other will turn out to be more expensive - maybe they have to do more tunneling than they costed for, once they get to a particular area, or maybe the stealthy intake duct is proving a lot more challenging...or... So then what happens is instead of it costing 100 money units and taking 10 years, the Treasury says "we can extend the length of the programme to 11 years, and the extra 10 money units still works out at 10 units per year..." but then what do you do with all the people you've contracted on various bases at a fixed rate?... And there will be requirement changes which either add cost, or reduce quality or affect some other aspect. There's a huge number of variables, some of them unforeseeable, some of them entirely foreseeable. The cost of labour going up is a foreseeable factor, and Brexit is part of the cause of that. Covid and Ukraine weren't. But anyway, the same arguments raged about the Channel tunnel and now no-one can even remember the details, we just have a route to the far off and scary Yurpeen continent that doesn't involve Brittany Ferrys. Same with that London tube-line. As soon as they come into usage, people marvel at them and forget all about the cost, because of all the benefits they bring and will keep bringing for the next hundred years, or however long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Weirdos. How do they keep finding new lows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 3, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Weirdos. Stark raving mad. It's beyond parody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 They are going all out for the thick but know it all voters. I suppose it worked with Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) In today's "party unity" news, a heckler was thrown out of the hall for shouting stuff during the Braverman rally. Turns out that it's the Tory Chair of the London Assembly. Edited October 3, 2023 by ml1dch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 9 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Weirdos. A small step away from burning books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 9 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Weirdos. I don't agree with just picking on woke ideology. Don't we think ideology in general should be kept out of science? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 11 minutes ago, blandy said: Stark raving mad. It's beyond parody. Deal with it snowflake. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, Genie said: They are going all out for the thick but know it all voters. I suppose it worked with Brexit. Brexit and what she’s espousing, are different. A lot of decent types had the wool pulled over their eyes over Brexit. Honestly, she’s too thick to realise she’s overstepped the mark here. A lot might agree with her, I still have to believe the majority will be nauseated. Conference is a Tory bubble.Some of the nastiest things imaginable get standing ovations there,. Christ, Liz Truss got one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 By its very nature, science deals with facts not ideology. Tories going full Trump here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 3, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Xela said: Deal with it snowflake. I was raised up believing I was somehow unique Like a snowflake distinct among snowflakes Unique in each way you'd conceive And now after some thinking I'd say I'd rather be A functioning cog in some great machinery 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 3, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, bickster said: bin dunne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 3, 2023 40 minutes ago, blandy said: But anyway, the same arguments raged about the Channel tunnel and now no-one can even remember the details, we just have a route to the far off and scary Yurpeen continent that doesn't involve Brittany Ferrys. Same with that London tube-line. As soon as they come into usage, people marvel at them and forget all about the cost, because of all the benefits they bring and will keep bringing for the next hundred years, or however long. Yarp. Does anyone question how much the West Coast Mainline cost and how overbudget it was? Mainly they just thank god our ancestors built it any didn't bottle out because without it we'd be absolutely screwed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted October 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 3, 2023 51 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Weirdos. WTAF? Trumpalikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Weirdos. It just speaks volumes about who they're trying to appeal to these days. It really does seem like we're witnessing the end of this party as we know it. I guess it depends on how they react to losing the GE. Do they try to become a normal party or lurch even further to the right lunatics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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