bickster Posted March 7, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2023 35 minutes ago, Genie said: If you’re a wannabe asylum seeker from Albania or Syria and heard the news that the UK are changing the law in the way they are I’m not sure it would put many/any off. I very much doubt the bit in bold happens much Most asylum seekers don't really know the UK asylum laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 7, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 hour ago, ml1dch said: This is dealing with the fact that you're taking heavy enemy fire by taking a pin out of your hand grenade and shoving it up your own arse. Yes, I definitely agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 7, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2023 27 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Coming over on a blow up dingy, apparently fleeing persecution. Might not seem much to us, but it must be like living in a penthouse suite with room service to them. They have hardly come from a 3 bed semi with Netflix. I'm curious, what percentage of asylum seekers do you think enter the UK via the small boat across the channel method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I do love it when you hear from bob the builder and he’s banging on about how these migrants should be trying to “fight for their own countries to make them better” rather than being such cowards and coming over here. Remind me how many tyrants you stood up to and how many guns were shoved in your face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 27 minutes ago, bickster said: I very much doubt the bit in bold happens much Most asylum seekers don't really know the UK asylum laws. I reckon you’d have a bit of an idea if your intention was to seek asylum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 7, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Genie said: I reckon you’d have a bit of an idea if your intention was to seek asylum. Not according to the charities that help these people, most of them dont have a clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, bickster said: Not according to the charities that help these people, most of them dont have a clue How are they going to be deterred by a change of law if they have no idea what the law is or was? Maybe another oversight of the masterplan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 7, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Genie said: How are they going to be deterred by a change of law if they have no idea what the law is or was? Maybe another oversight of the masterplan. It's a good question. One you'd have thought they'd have asked. but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted March 7, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, foreveryoung said: Coming over on a blow up dingy, apparently fleeing persecution. Might not seem much to us, but it must be like living in a penthouse suite with room service to them. They have hardly come from a 3 bed semi with Netflix. For some of them, you're probably right. Who knows how many. Funny though, isn't it, that it's not the liberal do-gooder lefties putting up thousands of people in hotels for years on end, and wanting it to continue. I heard today that about 1% of these people have had their claims processed in the last year. This government are weaponising the anger at this "life of luxury" while blowing their dogwhistles as loudly as they can, and failing to do anything to either make safe, legal routes, or to clear the backlog. It's almost like they're doing it on purpose to whip people into a fervour. Edited March 7, 2023 by Davkaus 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 4 hours ago, bickster said: Not according to the charities that help these people, most of them dont have a clue On an individual level maybe not, but the "popular" routes exist because someone involved does have a clue. Don't want to get dragged into this obvious Cruella dog whistle bullshit, but let's not pretend the laws and policies are completely irrelevant either. As with anything, people don't need a sophisticated legal or political understanding for trends to develop based on incentives and restrictions, and for organised groups to develop around that. The dramatic surge in number of small boat arrivals since Brexit was implemented is good evidence of this - it is happening because our brilliant Brexit negotiators didn't negotiate any means of returning these people to their last stop in the EU, which is how other countries are able to limit certain routes by disincentivising the risk. https://northeastbylines.co.uk/increase-in-small-boat-crossings-caused-by-no-returns-agreement-after-brexit/ Quote In my new report Sea Change on Border Control, I examined why small boat crossings have been happening and what to do about them. I wanted to understand better why this issue started as it was strange that ministers lacked any explanation for why this has all come up on their watch. The report’s main finding was that the primary factor behind small boat crossings is the UK’s lacking a returns agreement with the EU. This was a consequence of the UK’s Brexit deal. When the UK was in the EU, the UK was part of a returns agreement with the EU. This meant that anyone travelling to the UK from the EU without a right of entry could be sent back. When the UK left the EU, we could have remained part of this agreement – and other non-EU countries like Norway and Switzerland have a returns arrangement with the EU. But the Brexit deal did not include this. So, what this meant is that anyone travelling across could be sent back before Brexit. We see irregular migration rates relatively low and stable. Not everyone was returned who was identified, but hundreds were every year. But after Brexit, anyone travelling across could not be easily sent back and they weren’t. Irregular migration has grown significantly each year to record highs with record low removals. Not only has the lack of a returns agreement been a factor in this issue, but it has helped fuel an increase in crossings. (By a Law Professor at Durham.) You can clearly see this is a new phenomenon from the Govt's own statistics: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2022/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2022 But what they refuse to explain to anyone is why it's happening. It's not as if the crises in the Middle East and Africa kicked off just last year. The turning point in all of this has been the implementation of Brexit, and that's why the Tory Brexiteers have to kick up such a fuss about it and try and turn it into a culture war issue, because it's a problem of their own making. So yes, Sunak and co are probably right that legal changes will have an impact and may even be necessary. But they've painted themselves into a corner because they refuse for any part of this solution to look like a compromise deal with the EU. Also to the point re "economic migrants"... most of these people are from Syria / Iraq / Iran / Afghanistan / various conflict zones in Africa. Most likely the reason they want to come to the UK instead of another country they passed through on the way, is that they speak a little bit of English or have a connection here and think this is their best chance of building some kind of life. It's not our world class cooked breakfasts, satellite TV, and beautiful women, despite what tabloids would have you believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 3 hours ago, KentVillan said: On an individual level maybe not, but the "popular" routes exist because someone involved does have a clue. Don't want to get dragged into this obvious Cruella dog whistle bullshit, but let's not pretend the laws and policies are completely irrelevant either. As with anything, people don't need a sophisticated legal or political understanding for trends to develop based on incentives and restrictions, and for organised groups to develop around that. The dramatic surge in number of small boat arrivals since Brexit was implemented is good evidence of this - it is happening because our brilliant Brexit negotiators didn't negotiate any means of returning these people to their last stop in the EU, which is how other countries are able to limit certain routes by disincentivising the risk. https://northeastbylines.co.uk/increase-in-small-boat-crossings-caused-by-no-returns-agreement-after-brexit/ (By a Law Professor at Durham.) You can clearly see this is a new phenomenon from the Govt's own statistics: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2022/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2022 But what they refuse to explain to anyone is why it's happening. It's not as if the crises in the Middle East and Africa kicked off just last year. The turning point in all of this has been the implementation of Brexit, and that's why the Tory Brexiteers have to kick up such a fuss about it and try and turn it into a culture war issue, because it's a problem of their own making. So yes, Sunak and co are probably right that legal changes will have an impact and may even be necessary. But they've painted themselves into a corner because they refuse for any part of this solution to look like a compromise deal with the EU. Also to the point re "economic migrants"... most of these people are from Syria / Iraq / Iran / Afghanistan / various conflict zones in Africa. Most likely the reason they want to come to the UK instead of another country they passed through on the way, is that they speak a little bit of English or have a connection here and think this is their best chance of building some kind of life. It's not our world class cooked breakfasts, satellite TV, and beautiful women, despite what tabloids would have you believe. What a load of boll***s. You sourced this from the charities who look after them? I would have thought the criminal gangs who they pay to get here, tell them to head for the English borders, an if they don't kill half there family and kids on the way, they'may be living the dream in a 4 star hotel all expenses paid for a couple of years, that's if they are not criminals themselves and dismiss the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: What a load of boll***s. You sourced this from the charities who look after them? I would have thought the criminal gangs who they pay to get here, tell them to head for the English borders, an if they don't kill half there family and kids on the way, they'may be living the dream in a 4 star hotel all expenses paid for a couple of years, that's if they are not criminals themselves and dismiss the system. How confident are you in your sources—and should you be? What sources do you base your opinions on for this complicated topic? Edited March 8, 2023 by Rolta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 6 minutes ago, Rolta said: How confident are you in your sources—and should you be? What sources do you base your opinions on for this complicated topic? It is a very complicated subject agreed, you can be sure my opinions don't come from twitter if it worries you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 13 minutes ago, Rolta said: How confident are you in your sources—and should you be? What sources do you base your opinions on for this complicated topic? Absolute **** all is my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 What a pathetic, small man, in every sense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 14 hours ago, bickster said: "You can't make spurious human rights claims" What on earth is meant by that? It means human rights law would no longer apply to a certain group of people - plainly in breach of the ECHR. Quote States that have ratified the Convention, also known as “States Parties”, have undertaken to secure and guarantee to everyone within their jurisdiction, not only their nationals There's no way this gets through the courts, but a right wing tabloid war with 'woke lefty judges' as the enemy is probably the end goal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: It is a very complicated subject agreed, you can be sure my opinions don't come from twitter if it worries you. What are your sources, specifically? To be fair to KentVillan, the comment you were responding to included two links so you can see exactly where he was coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 15 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: It is a very complicated subject agreed, you can be sure my opinions don't come from twitter if it worries you. No one said they did. But what are your sources to be able to call @KentVillan's post bollocks? You must have some to be so confident, so please share so we can also learn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 19 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: No one said they did. But what are your sources to be able to call @KentVillan's post bollocks? You must have some to be so confident, so please share so we can also learn. Why do I always need to quote sources on this forum. Its a discussion board, I'm discussing and putting my opinion across I'm not against immigration, I'm against randoms coming over in boats and risking there lives, then adding hardly anything to the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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