HKP90 Posted February 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 5, 2023 3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: It's incredible to watch, an amazing time for the country in some ways - I think 2023 will be a year that will be studied by historians with amused interest long into the future. A party in such incredible denial that they and their supporters are now positioning themselves behind horses in a leadership race having rejected the man they thought best suited - The Mail are pushing Boris as the saviour, Truss is getting favourable coverage on the BBC, Sunak appearing weak with Zahawi jettisoned and Raab teetering on the edge - and they genuinely, genuinely believe that the problem is the public persona of their leader. A decade of decay and several years of lying, stealing, cheating and taking has left the country in tatters, our public services creaking, our key workers out on the streets, record energy prices sat next to record energy profits, a cost of living crisis, billionaire Tories with billions of public money, squandered, squirrelled away and embezzled in tax havens, complicated company structures and yachts - and yet, still, they think if they can find the right character, they'll be okay. They're a burglar caught in the front room, with a shotgun pointed at them, asking "Is it my tie?" The levels of denial are extraordinary. To not understand that the country thinks that Boris is a lying, cheating, crook, that Truss is a dangerous idiot, that Sunak is anything but a weak profiteer, that Raab is a psychotic bully, that Braverman is a heartless and cruel danger, is almost beyond belief - the misjudgement of mood, of feeling and of the voters is so preposterous that any fiction writer would discount it. And yet here we are, a party under some sort of collective spell, a mass mental disease that says we don't need to change, we just need a better front man, is about to collapse to the most one sided defeat in British political history, whilst wondering if things could have been so much different if they'd just brought Boris back. It's baffling, fascinating and extraordinary in equal measure, we are living with the most ridiculous governmental term in our history, let's hope they don't do so much damage we can't recover. Completely agree with everything in this post. Regarding the bit in bold, though, they think the average voter is dumb, easily led and votes on the basis of personality. And they may not be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 On 04/02/2023 at 11:49, Davkaus said: Prowling the corridors, searching for hidden parties rather than...Looking around at the parties he was actually attending. They really think people are stupid enough to let them rewrite recent history in plain sight. Liz learnt from the worst. Reading a tory's interpretation of how they did nothing wrong and nothing is their fault is like being parachuted into another reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Would be fun. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 5, 2023 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Would be fun. It just needs the LibDems to do the right thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 7 minutes ago, bickster said: It just needs the LibDems to do the right thing No sign of that happening though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 15 minutes ago, bickster said: It just needs the LibDems to do the right thing Any indication Labour would do the same in other seats? I doubt it, as they'll be insistent on contesting every seat and won't want to look weak by doing deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 5, 2023 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, Straggler said: No sign of that happening though. Plenty of signs of it tbh, Wakefield, Batley and Spen, Hartlepool, all close Lab/Con seats that Labour won, all had a reduced LibDem vote which helped. Batley and Spen in particular given the George Galloway spoiler that was run by Putins lapdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 5, 2023 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2023 9 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Any indication Labour would do the same in other seats? I doubt it, as they'll be insistent on contesting every seat and won't want to look weak by doing deals. Not true, Labout have run very weak campaigns in a number of LibDem target seats. The deals aren't public but its pretty obvious that deals have been done informally. They even did it in North Shropshire where they were the traditional second place party EDIT: And Tiverton and Honiton Labour have to contest every mainland UK seat, it's in the party consitution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, bickster said: Not true, Labout have run very weak campaigns in a number of LibDem target seats. The deals aren't public but its pretty obvious that deals have been done informally. They even did it in North Shropshire where they were the traditional second place party Something that is going to make that a lot harder at the next General (assuming polls don't massively change) though is that Labour have gone from third to first in voting intention polling in loads of Lib Dem targets. I'm fully behind whatever needs to happen to see as many Tory losses as possible, but I think that it'll be a lot harder for Labour to draw up a list of places where they shouldn't bother trying. Edited February 5, 2023 by ml1dch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 5, 2023 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 minute ago, ml1dch said: I'm fully behind whatever needs to happen to see as many Tory losses as possible, but I think that it'll be a lot harder for Labour to draw up a list of places where they shouldn't bother trying. Yes, this is very much true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 4 hours ago, HKP90 said: Seems that leadership these days means something completely different. I'm pretty sure that leadership traditionally meant tanking responsibility and protecting those under your control. Now it seems to mean blaming everything that goes wrong on everyone but yourself, and throwing all your colleagues under a bus. We live in strange old times. It’s always some vague non-specific group I.e. “the left”. Ok Liz, who SPECIFICALLY ruined your amazing plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 29 minutes ago, Genie said: It’s always some vague non-specific group I.e. “the left”. Ok Liz, who SPECIFICALLY ruined your amazing plan? She didn’t write the Telegraph headline. You are demanding answers from the wrong group In that article she claims that public service bureaucrats were the reason why her plan didn’t work. I presume that’s what the Telegraph has summarised as ‘the left’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 22 minutes ago, LondonLax said: She didn’t write the Telegraph headline. You are demanding answers from the wrong group In that article she claims that public service bureaucrats were the reason why her plan didn’t work. I presume that’s what the Telegraph has summarised as ‘the left’. She blamed “the left-wing economic establishment” as direct quotes didn’t she? I haven’t read the full essay as it’s behind a paywall but most news outlets are running that as a quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Genie said: She blamed “the left-wing economic establishment” as direct quotes didn’t she? I haven’t read the full essay as it’s behind a paywall but most news outlets are running that as a quote. It’s not behind a paywall for me https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/04/liz-truss-downingg-street-reflection-mini-budget-boris-johnson/ Edited February 5, 2023 by LondonLax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 minute ago, LondonLax said: Have you tried? It’s not behind a paywall for me https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/04/liz-truss-downing-street-reflection-mini-budget-boris-johnson/ After a few seconds I get this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Genie said: After a few seconds I get this Super odd. I get through to the article but I’m certainly not a telegraph subscriber You can always put the URL into https://archive.ph if you want to beat a paywall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Super odd. I get through to the article but I’m certainly not a telegraph subscriber You can always put the URL into https://archive.ph if you want to beat a paywall. Thanks! She does seem to write: Quote But, frankly, we were also pushing water uphill. Large parts of the media and the wider public sphere had become unfamiliar with key arguments about tax and economic policy and over time sentiment had shifted Left-wards. hence the blaming of the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 There's a vast difference between a claim that the public sentiment has shifted left wards and that there's a "left wing economic establishment" that brought her down I think @LondonLax is right, it's a very disingenuous interpretation of her actual article. The torygraph using their dirty tricks on their own? Oh dear, how sad, never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phily85 Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 28 minutes ago, Genie said: After a few seconds I get this Opening the article on then putting phone on aeroplane mode before the popup normally works for me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Davkaus said: There's a vast difference between a claim that the public sentiment has shifted left wards and that there's a "left wing economic establishment" that brought her down I think @LondonLax is right, it's a very disingenuous interpretation of her actual article. The torygraph using their dirty tricks on their own? Oh dear, how sad, never mind. The quote from her that the public and media were economically unfamiliar and sentiment had shifted leftward and the headline that she was brought down by left-wing economic establishment are not vastly different to me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts