OutByEaster? Posted October 23, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2022 I did wonder if Boris turned up just to promise Sunak that if he didn't make the enquiry go away that he'd linger and make trouble for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Mark Albrighton said: Something Sunak has to look forward to (regrettably). If you don’t want to hear all of it (wouldn’t blame you), around 45 seconds is the moment the host realises what sort of call this will be and about 6:45 when the mask basically falls off completely. That moron embodies all of my beliefs of what and who the average Tory voter is. And that’s the base reason that I’m pretty confident in saying I’ll never in my lifetime even consider voting for the scum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 39 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I did wonder if Boris turned up just to promise Sunak that if he didn't make the enquiry go away that he'd linger and make trouble for him. Why would he think Sunak had the power to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted October 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) Zahawi backing Johnson after previously advising him to resign about 15 weeks ago. Edited October 23, 2022 by Mark Albrighton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 23, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: Zahawi backing Johnson after previously advising him to resign about 15 weeks ago. But still staying on as Chancellor at the same time. Sure sign of a self serving throbber He's not alone either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 23, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: I did wonder if Boris turned up just to promise Sunak that if he didn't make the enquiry go away that he'd linger and make trouble for him. Nah, the is classic Johnson the ROman Emperor stuff. He knows if he cn get 100 MPs he's pretty much PM again, regardless of how many MPs Sunak gets In his mind, he'll just bullshit past the Inquiry etc and he's imortal with the genius touch The one who is up to games at this point is Mordor with her in it to win it, she's trying to play Kingmaker, her interview this morning showed her up to be the absolute empty vessel that we all knew. Exxentially in a leadership race and no commented everything because she hasn't got a plan to lead, just a plan to improve her profile and get a better job. The idea that ERG Mordor is a unity candidate is also palpably stupid Personally, I suspect at this stage the odds favour a Sunak Coronation tomorrow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted October 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 23, 2022 Sunak officially confirmed as running, not exactly the most staggering development but it’s official anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: Sunak officially confirmed as running, not exactly the most staggering development but it’s official anyway. And BBC saying he has 125 MP votes by their own count, with Boris still on 45. How many Tory MP votes are up for grabs in total? Edited October 23, 2022 by ender4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 8 minutes ago, ender4 said: And BBC saying he has 125 MP votes by their own count, with Boris still on 45. How many Tory MP votes are up for grabs in total? 357 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 hours ago, desensitized43 said: I think we all know people like that caller. They’re people who don’t actually think they’re being/are racist but they’ve been so brainwashed by the constant headlines about terrorists, people getting off dinghy’s, brown people doing bad things, that they’ve decided that being brown and British are incompatible. It’s pure English nationalism plain and simple. A force that’s been growing in our country for years now. The reality is that we all know that person considers themselves a “patriot” and that he “loves his country” but in truth has no idea what that means other than loving the monarchy, shagging a flag and hating on brown people. It’s weird you automatically equate nationalism to racism. Are the SNP racists then? Is anyone who watches the England football team a racist, because they’re taking pride in their nation? The Venn diagram of extreme nationalists and racists overlaps pretty heavily, but nationalism itself isn’t inherently bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted October 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, ender4 said: And BBC saying he has 125 MP votes by their own count, with Boris still on 45. How many Tory MP votes are up for grabs in total? My sense, rightly or wrongly, is Sunak has more than the 125 being suggested. Would be entertaining to see Johnson miss 100 by a handful of votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: It’s weird you automatically equate nationalism to racism. Are the SNP racists then? Is anyone who watches the England football team a racist, because they’re taking pride in their nation? The Venn diagram of extreme nationalists and racists overlaps pretty heavily, but nationalism itself isn’t inherently bad. Dictionary definition of nationalism : Identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations. To my mind that is inherently bad. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: It’s weird you automatically equate nationalism to racism. Are the SNP racists then? Is anyone who watches the England football team a racist, because they’re taking pride in their nation? The Venn diagram of extreme nationalists and racists overlaps pretty heavily, but nationalism itself isn’t inherently bad. Don’t be ridiculous. Of course it’s not inherently bad to “support” your country, but that comes in many forms. There’s a good side of nationalism which is wanting the absolute best for your country and generally wanting it to be a great place to be and what some of these people want. A place where your national identity is defined by a few very narrow minded characteristics and basically being against anyone who doesn’t “fit” that idea. The SNP are a case in point. They clearly want the best for their country and have an idea of how to make that happen. From what I’ve seen they’re against the idea of union with England and Wales but not actually against English people. I don’t see many Scottish people advocating to close their southern border or an English family who move to Scotland and have a child born in Scotland that their child isn’t Scottish. I don’t doubt there are some in that camp who have tipped over into “bad nationalism” though but from what I’ve seen they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, Straggler said: Dictionary definition of nationalism : Identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations. To my mind that is inherently bad. So the Scottish nationalists are bad people pursuing an inherently bad cause, then? Given they’ll happily admit to being nationalists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: Don’t be ridiculous. Of course it’s not inherently bad to “support” your country, but that comes in many forms. There’s a good side of nationalism which is wanting the absolute best for your country and generally wanting it to be a great place to be and what some of these people want. A place where your national identity is defined by a few very narrow minded characteristics and basically being against anyone who doesn’t “fit” that idea. The SNP are a case in point. They clearly want the best for their country and have an idea of how to make that happen. From what I’ve seen they’re against the idea of union with England and Wales but not actually against English people. I don’t see many Scottish people advocating to close their southern border or an English family who move to Scotland and have a child born in Scotland that their child isn’t Scottish. I don’t doubt there are some in that camp who have tipped over into “bad nationalism” though but from what I’ve seen they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. At what cost? To the detriment of other nations? We should collectively want the best for the whole world (sorry to go all John Lennon). Imaginary lines drawn on a map should not dictate who we want to see do well. Thats why nationalism is shit, because it’s all about ‘you and yours’ and F everyone else. Edited October 23, 2022 by bannedfromHandV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: Don’t be ridiculous. Of course it’s not inherently bad to “support” your country, but that comes in many forms. There’s a good side of nationalism which is wanting the absolute best for your country and generally wanting it to be a great place to be and what some of these people want. A place where your national identity is defined by a few very narrow minded characteristics and basically being against anyone who doesn’t “fit” that idea. The SNP are a case in point. They clearly want the best for their country and have an idea of how to make that happen. From what I’ve seen they’re against the idea of union with England and Wales but not actually against English people. I don’t see many Scottish people advocating to close their southern border or an English family who move to Scotland and have a child born in Scotland that their child isn’t Scottish. I don’t doubt there are some in that camp who have tipped over into “bad nationalism” though but from what I’ve seen they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Yes, nationalism has a bad side when it becomes too strong - almost all of which is better called racism or chauvinism. Which is the point I was making. It’s not pure English nationalism that’s the problem, it’s just racism. There’s nothing inherently wrong with loving your country or loving your flag etc, unless you also think the SNP are flag-shaggers and whatnot for loving theirs. The problem is that there’s a racist element among the English right which seeks to exclude others from our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Loving a flag lol. **** me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 22 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: Yes, nationalism has a bad side when it becomes too strong - almost all of which is better called racism or chauvinism. Which is the point I was making. It’s not pure English nationalism that’s the problem, it’s just racism. There’s nothing inherently wrong with loving your country or loving your flag etc, unless you also think the SNP are flag-shaggers and whatnot for loving theirs. The problem is that there’s a racist element among the English right which seeks to exclude others from our country. Define loving your country though? What does that even mean? Wanting us to do well at sport? Loving a flag? In what way? You like the colours or the design. What does that even mean? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 minute ago, desensitized43 said: Define loving your country though? What does that even mean? Wanting us to do well at sport? Loving a flag? In what way? You like the colours or the design. What does that even mean? Well yeah, that’s the thing. For some people loving their country is just having an attachment to the place they consider home and the people that live there. Some people would say it’s the ideals that the country stands for (e.g. democracy, etc) which people may love enough to be willing to die for it on the battlefield. There are probably plenty of Ukrainians right now who are willing to die for a nationalist idea, and for their friends and family that share it. I don’t see anything wrong with that sort of nationalism, personally, and the fact that less benign versions of nationalism exist doesn’t mean I’m willing to say that nobody should have any love for their country. I’m sure you know this already, but a flag is just a convenient representation of what a country and whatever it means to the owner. When people in the Middle East burn American flags it’s probably not because they dislike the colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 23, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said: Are the SNP racists then? Some of them, most definitely. The SNP's record on race issues isn't particularly great either 1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said: but nationalism itself isn’t inherently bad. I think there is definitely an argument that it is. But this is the Tory Topic not the Tartan Tory topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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