Refugee crisis

[sexbelowsound]

It's hard not to agree with URGHblahaha Iraqi Muslamists, urghghdhsh Britin, Britin.......

Fully behind the fella.

[StefanAVFC]

ForeverYoung.

You mentioned in another thread that you have a 6 month old lad. How would you feel if you had to flee your home because of war, only to be told 'nah, you coming here has no positives for us' when you get to another country's border'

Such a blatant disregard for humanity. Hate this idea that we have to look after our own citizens before others.

[Keyblade]

because i believe it will be a strain on a country thats already suffering from muslim migration, yes muslim not eastern european or chinese and its going to create more tension and loss of housing for our own people that need it. ive made myself quite clear on my views of islam at the moment, how do we know who we are letting in? i think its pretty fair to say a number of these refuges will turn against the country that feeds them. 

 

 

"suffering" from Muslim immigration lol

I don't know how someone can claim to not be prejudiced and be "just worried that's all, I promise!", and post something like that with no irony. The entire logic is extremely off-putting and inconsistent too. So apparently Muslims are taking over (just Muslims incidentally)...after fleeing war-torn countries and seeking refuge? Do you believe there's a concerted effort on the part of the various nefarious Muslims to take over Britain? Or is it it just the pure numbers that don't sit well with you? Not sure which is worse tbh. You don't know the intentions of anyone you're letting in whether they're Muslim, Buddhist or Pastafarian, but I guess since they're Muslim there is a higher potential for some of them to "turn against the country that feeds them", or something. Totally not prejudiced and fearmongering at all.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Keyblade

[StefanAVFC]

because i believe it will be a strain on a country thats already suffering from muslim migration, yes muslim not eastern european or chinese and its going to create more tension and loss of housing for our own people that need it. ive made myself quite clear on my views of islam at the moment, how do we know who we are letting in? i think its pretty fair to say a number of these refuges will turn against the country that feeds them. 

 

 

"suffering" from Muslim immigration lol

I don't know how someone can claim to not be prejudiced and be "just worried that's all, I promise!", and post something like that with no irony. The entire logic is extremely off-putting and inconsistent too. So apparently Muslims are taking over (just Muslims incidentally)...after fleeing war-torn countries and seeking refuge? Do you believe there's a concerted effort on the part of the various nefarious Muslims to take over Britain? Or is it it just the pure numbers that don't sit well with you? Not sure which is worse tbh. You don't know the intentions of anyone you're letting in whether they're Muslim, Buddhist or Pastafarian, but I guess since they're Muslim there is a higher potential for some of them to "turn against the country that feeds them", or something. Totally not prejudiced and fearmongering at all.

Spot on.

[lapal_fan]

People are scared of what they don't know.

I worked on a Mosque once in Moseley, the people going into and out of that place, and especially the active staff of it were the most welcoming people ever.

Every Friday was a flipping Indian/Pakistani buffet and everybody loved it.

[choffer]

That's what I don't get about the debate. It's almost as if we present enough straw-man arguments, the whole thing will go away.

Muslamist rapists / The  country is full / We've done our bit by sending them bags of food and bottled water / They should look after their own / We can't afford it / It's all a media conspiracy / Most of them are Pakistani or from somewhere else, just pretending to be Syrians / They aren't poor, they've got mobiles / Ze Chermans are only taking them because they need people to sustain their economy / They all want to take over more of our cities than they've already done /They're economic migrants / We'll all be living under Sharia Law / They wouldn't do it for us if we needed help

 

It's all nonsense to divert away from the matter at hand. There are people who will 100% be killed if they stay where they are. We have a moral obligation as a 1st world power to help people who are less well off than ourselves. By saying we won't take more than a handful of refugees (and even then, only on our terms) we're basically saying that we don't care enough to intervene, that we're content with you dying where you are or that we believe someone else should take responsibility because it's too much to expect us to do it. 

As for the argument that we can't afford it, that's the biggest amount of hooey I've ever heard. We are all having this debate on smartphones, tablets, laptops, sitting in our nice homes, wasting vast amounts of food, energy and money as a nation every day. We've had a string of Governments who waste resources on vanity projects and we let big business off their tax liabilities while demonising those that take "hand-outs". 

What we're really saying is that we don't care enough about the problem as a nation to inconvenience ourselves. 

[tonyh29]

'The debate is now completely divorced from the facts'

Damn right. People spout buzzwords off because they read it on Facebook or in the media without actually doing any research.

UKIP in the last election were most popular in areas where immigration was lowest. Surely that says something. The people who actually live in with the immigrants see the good and the people who don't, and just read propaganda and made up Facebook posts see the bad. It's a nonsense and it's so frustrating that it's got to this point.

could that possibly be because immigrants don't  vote for UKIP ?

I wish people would do some research before lazily posting 

[Jarpie]

Again, you seem to be trying to drag me into an argument that is nothign to do with the original point we were debating.

 

I've expressed no opinion about the media, their agenda or politics. Your post stops being relevant to the point we were discussing after the first paragraph

Not my intention, but we can agree to disagree, as civilized, reasonable and rational people should be able to. I might come off strongly sometimes as I'm not always good at expressing myself with english nuances.

[omariqy]

Muslims are no different to any other demographic of people. They have the same proportion of normal people that do normal things and they have the same proportion of lunatics who do crazy things.  The difference is that some try to justify the crazy by using religion as an excuse. Other religions also have people that do similar things too. I.e. we are all pretty much the same. 

[omariqy]

You’re 29 years old with a wife, two children and a job. You have enough money, and can afford a few nice things, and you live in a small house in the city.
Sud...denly the political situation in your country changes and a few months later soldiers are gathered in front of your house. And in front of your neighbours’ houses.
They say that if you don’t fight for them, they will shoot you.
Your neighbour refuses.
One shot. That’s it.

You overhear one of the soldiers telling your wife to spread her legs.
Somehow you get rid of the soldiers and spend the night deep in thought.
Suddenly you hear an explosion. Your house no longer has a living room.
You run outside and see that the whole street is destroyed.
Nothing is left standing.

You take your family back into the house, and then you run to your parents' house.
It is no longer there. Nor are your parents.
You look around and find an arm with your Mother’s ring on its finger. You can’t find any other sign of your parents.

~~~~~

"But asylum seekers have so many luxury goods! Smartphones, and designer clothes!"

~~~~~

You immediately forget it. You rush home, and tell your wife to get the children dressed. You grab a small bag, because anything bigger will be impossible to carry for a long time, and in it you pack essentials. Only 2 pieces of clothing each can fit in the bag.
What do you take?
You will probably never see your home country again.
Not your family, not your neighbours, your workmates…
But how can you stay in contact?

You hastily throw your smartphone and the charger in the bag.
Along with the few clothes, some bread and your small daughters favourite teddy.

~~~~~

"They can easily afford to get away. They aren’t poor!"

~~~~~

Because you could see the emergency coming, you have already scraped all your money together.
You managed to save some money because of your well paid job.
The kind people smuggler in the neighbourhood charges 5,000 euros per person.

You have 15,000 euros. With a bit of luck, you’ll all be able to go. If not, you will have to let your wife go.
You love her and pray that you the smugglers will take you all.
By now you are totally wiped out and have nothing else. Just your family and the bag.
The journey to the border takes two weeks on foot.

You are hungry and for the last week have barely eaten. You are weak, as is your wife. But at least the children have enough.
They have cried for the whole 2 weeks.
Half the time you have to carry your younger daughter. She is only 21 months old.
A further 2 weeks and you arrive at the sea.

In the middle of the night you’re loaded onto a ship with other refugees.
You are lucky: your whole family can travel.
The ship is so full that it threatens to capsize. You pray that you don’t drown.
The people around you are crying and screaming.
A few small children have died of thirst.
The smugglers throw them overboard.
Your wife sits, vacantly, in a corner. She hasn’t had anything to drink for 2 days.
When the coast is in sight, you are loaded onto small boats.
Your wife and the younger child are on one, you and your older child are on another.

You are warned to stay silent so that nobody knows you’re there.
Your older daughter understands.
But your younger one in the other boat doesn’t. She doesn’t stop crying.
The other refugees are getting nervous. They demand that your wife keeps the child quiet.
She doesn’t manage it.
One of the men grabs your daughter, rips her away from your wife and throws her overboard.
You jump in after her, but you can’t find her again.
Never again.
In 3 months she would have turned 2 years old.
Isn’t that enough for you? They still have it too good here and have everything handed to them on a plate?

You don’t know how you, your wife and your older daughter manage to get to the country that takes you in.
It’s as though everything is all foggy. Your wife hasn’t spoken a word since your daughter died.
Your older daughter hasn’t let go of her sister’s teddy and is totally apathetic.
But you have to keep going. You are just about to arrive at the emergency accommodation.
It is 10pm. A man whose language you don’t understand takes you to a hall with camp beds. There are 500 beds all very close together.

In the hall it’s stuffy and loud.
You try to get your bearings. To understand what the people there want from you.
But in reality you can barely stand up. You nearly wish that they had shot you.
Instead you unpack your meagre possessions:
Two items of clothing each and your smartphone.
Then you spend your first night in a safe country.
The next morning you’re given some clothes.
Among the donated clothes are even branded ‘label’ clothes. And a toy for your daughter.
You are given 140 euros. For the whole month.

~~~~~

"They’re safe here. Therefore they should be happy!"

~~~~~

Outside in the yard, dressed in your new clothes, you hold your smartphone high in the air and hope to have some reception.
You need to know if anyone from your city is still alive.
Then a 'concerned citizen‘ comes by and abuses you.
You don’t know why. You don’t understand “Go back to your own country!"
You understand some things like “smartphone” and “handed everything on a plate.”
Somebody translates it for you.

~~~~~

And now tell me how you feel and what you own?
The answer to both parts of that is “Nothing.”

[tonyh29]

I see the celebs have got on the bandwagon , thank God ..now Syria's problems are over and we can move on to the next campaign ... not sure what that is yet as I'm still waiting for social media to tell me  ...

 

did have a wry smile on my face though when Cumberbatch accused the government of doing too little to late  ..where were you in 2011 Benedict ?

[lloydxmas]

That needs to go viral, if it hasn't already.

 

[Awol]

Genuine question, not supposed to cause offence.

If the roles were reversed and non-muslim communities wanted to migrate to the Middle East.  Would they be allowed to build churches, open up bars, betting shops etc with fear of them being bombed/burned down?

 

Dubai/Qatar/Oman say hello.

 

Even in those countries you can't just rock up and start looking for work. You have to have a job to go to, work visa in place etc. Once that visa expires or if you are arbitrarily sacked you have no right to stay and your visa is cancelled at the airport as you fly out.

Forget any right to a family life stuff, you could have a kid in school (which you have to pay for privately), 11 months paid up on your accommodation (normally 12 months paid in advance annually) and lose the lot with no recourse or right to appeal.

You'd also better make damn sure you follow their rules, anything from public affection with your wife to eating/drinking in public during Ramadan (yes, that applies to non-Muslims) can land you in jail and/or deported. Ditto swearing or shouting at a local. If a local accuses you of something to the police you are also for it, no witnesses required. I've known a few people fall foul of this last one based on nothing more than spite. 

All of this applies to me too, as a foriegner even though I'm Muslim. None of these have anything to do with being non-Muslim except for perhaps the eating/drinking in Ramadan as a non-Muslim.

Absolutely, but the question was directed towards non-Muslim communities. As you state the restrictions on Muslim migrant workers (one cannot immigrate to a Gulf country) are the same as those for non-Muslims unless they are GCC passport holders. Same goes for nationality, when my wife asked her work colleagues whether our shortly to be born son would be entitled to an Omani passport she was met with an amused retort; "If a cow is born in a stable it doesn't make it horse".  Nationality is firmly wedded to ethnicity out here and any other situation is seen as self evident nonsense.   Incidentally the many locals I know well think the UK approach of allowing mass immigration is insanity, but as conservative yet moderate Muslims (Ibadi) they well recognise the danger of Wahhabism (Islamic Fascism) and the risks posed by the proselytising activity undertaken by Saudi in European Muslim communities.  

As you know the answer to the actual question about churches, bars etc is a resounding "no".

[StefanAVFC]

More to the point Omar, is having a smartphone is a sign of wealth these days then everybody is rich surely.

Where is that from Omar?

[Keyblade]

So apparently the refugees are not actually poor, but they're willing to leave their country to collect paltry benefits. Okay.

[Jarpie]

I see the celebs have got on the bandwagon , thank God ..now Syria's problems are over and we can move on to the next campaign ... not sure what that is yet as I'm still waiting for social media to tell me  ...

 

did have a wry smile on my face though when Cumberbatch accused the government of doing too little to late  ..where were you in 2011 Benedict ?

I've always found it cringeworthy when celebrities suddenly starts grandstanding on any popular issue when either they think that they can get good PR out of it, or that just because they're celebrities they have something meaningful to say.

[Awol]

So apparently the refugees are not actually poor, but they're willing to leave their country to collect paltry benefits. Okay.

I follow the work of a guy I've known a few years who reports for Vice News. He reports extensively from inside Syria and was explaining recently that so many of the migrants from Syria are fighting age males because they are draft dodgers from areas still controlled by the Assad regime.  Most of the menfolk on the other side of the line are either in combat, in chains or in the ground. 

[omariqy]

I am not sure where it's from but I saw it shared on Facebook.  It hit home what these people are going through rather than worrying about political point scoring

[lapal_fan]

It's quite difficult not to get angry at that post Omar, especially after having watched Stefan's Britain First video

[sexbelowsound]

It's quite difficult not to get angry at that post Omar, especially after having watched Stefan's Britain First video

You'd think with Stefan's view point on the situation he wouldn't be off filming for those clowns.....

I smell a rat.