The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Davkaus]

10 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

So the economic situation due to Tory mismanagement is so bad that an incoming Labour government won’t be able to change anything.  So if they leave everything as it is then how is anything going to get better? 

Well, when you've got 350 MPs pissing in the pool of government, you can't immediately get all the piss out, but if you at least stop them pissing and start to filter out some of the legacy piss, the piss concentration gets lower and lower. Hopefully 5 years of Labour can set the piss clock back by > 5 years.

But one should keep a close eye on anything flowing from Keir's swimshorts, just to be on the safe side. This metaphor might have broken down.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Davkaus

[markavfc40]

15 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

So the economic situation due to Tory mismanagement is so bad that an incoming Labour government won’t be able to change anything.  So if they leave everything as it is then how is anything going to get better? 

I don't think anyone is saying that nothing will change. When the Tories have spent 14 years pretty much breaking everything though and piling up ever more debt whilst doing so then it is clearly going to take time. 

There will be an instant improvement simply from the fact we will have a government with the will to improve our public services and the lot of your average Joe instead of destroying our public services and making the lives of the masses tougher whilst giving those of us with the least a good kicking. 

I'm hopeful we can over a handful of years see a similar up turn in all our fortunes and an improvement in our public services to the one we saw following the 1997 election when like now Labour inherited an all mighty mess, although the Tories have left an even bigger mess and bigger rebuild for Labour this time. 

 

[desensitized43]

8 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

So the economic situation due to Tory mismanagement is so bad that an incoming Labour government won’t be able to change anything.  So if they leave everything as it is then how is anything going to get better? 

If you believe what the Tories are saying and the finances are as tight as they say....and I surely don't.

If there's limited money due to their completely botched handling of the economy going back years now, where it gets spent is a political choice. I doubt any incoming Labour government would continue trafficking people to Rwanda at a cost of 175k pp. 

[Demitri_C]

Would have respected starmer if he gave a opinion on ULEZ but as is becoming a common theme he flip flops around the question 

He previously backed it but now as labour mp is opposed to it (massive respect to that mp going against that cretin khan) starmer should have said who he backed. Weak leadership in my view as your scared of rocking the boat

[ml1dch]

8 hours ago, Jareth said:

Quite funny really - and to be expected more often, the yoof are not going to play along with Mandleson's Labour

 

Having caught up with the speech, I hope he enjoyed the irony of his big point about how important it was that young people learn about confidence in public speaking was interrupted by young people having the confidence to speak in public. 

[Genie]

I saw a snippet on the news last night followed by Peston giving Starmer a light grilling. 

It frustrates the hell out of me that given the bullshit we’ve had to endure from the Tories Labour are following the same crib sheet.

Mission pledge 1

Quote

Secure the highest sustained growth in the G7

Labour has set out five national missions that we will build our manifesto around and, if elected, drive everything we do in government.

Labour will be focussed on outcomes that matter: making sure people are better off, live in safe communities, and have the opportunities they need to succeed – wherever they live, and whatever their background.

These missions will only be achieved through relentless focus. They require government departments working together. Business working with unions. The private sector working with the public sector. And a common partnership between national and local government.

Each mission is built on the strong foundations of economic stability, national security, and secure borders.

None of that bullshit is going to have a tangible impact. It’s just vague words. Peston was asking how they are going to create the highest growth in the G7 and he has absolutely no idea.

[Demitri_C]

6 minutes ago, Genie said:

I saw a snippet on the news last night followed by Peston giving Starmer a light grilling. 

It frustrates the hell out of me that given the bullshit we’ve had to endure from the Tories Labour are following the same crib sheet.

Mission pledge 1

None of that bullshit is going to have a tangible impact. It’s just vague words. Peston was asking how they are going to create the highest growth in the G7 and he has absolutely no idea.

Glad someone else can see through the bullshit. Some will argue "oh but the tories will steal their ideas"

Even if they tried to it dont matter look at the polla labour are winning landslide

[bannedfromHandV]

Keir Starmer is about as likeable as that crusty shit you get in the corner of your eyes each morning. 

[Genie]

What about corporation tax, income tax, subsidies, attract foreign investment, new trade deals, joining trade blocks, new visa’s, targeting certain industries for growth etc.

At least Truss and Kwarteng had a plan, some substance (even if it was utterly bonkers).

Labours plan seems to be roll out some management speak about internal efficiency and collaboration = biggest growth in the G7. It’s mental.

 

[Davkaus]

13 minutes ago, Genie said:

I saw a snippet on the news last night followed by Peston giving Starmer a light grilling. 

It frustrates the hell out of me that given the bullshit we’ve had to endure from the Tories Labour are following the same crib sheet.

Mission pledge 1

None of that bullshit is going to have a tangible impact. It’s just vague words. Peston was asking how they are going to create the highest growth in the G7 and he has absolutely no idea.

Have you read the briefing sheet in that link?

They've defined how they'll measure success and given 15 initial policy changes to drive towards the goal. Some of them aren't particularly specific, but that's much more detail than I'd expect to see this far ahead of an election tbh

Yes the headline and the PR blurb is vague platitudes, but there's some detail there if you're interested in looking for it. I'm pleasantly surprised.

[Davkaus]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

 

At least Truss and Kwarteng had a plan, some substance (even if it was utterly bonkers).

 

 

When they were actually in government. We're still up to 18 months from an election. I've been very critical of the vagueness of Starmer and his constantly pivoting away from his own pledges, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a government in waiting being much more specific this far out from an election

[Genie]

Just now, Davkaus said:

When they were actually in government. We're still up to 18 months from an election. I've been very critical of the vagueness of Starmer and his constantly pivoting away from his own pledges, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a government in waiting being much more specific this far out from an election

I’m hoping that is the case, but I’m sure in years gone by there is a bit more substance to such bold claims.

Peston also said words to the effect of you seem to be expecting to get elected by the Tories losing it rather than having a solid plan.

[Davkaus]

Just now, Genie said:

 

Peston also said words to the effect of you seem to be expecting to get elected by the Tories losing it rather than having a solid plan.

This is a feeling I've had ever since Starmer became leader, and there are many posts from me criticising him for it over the years, so I get this perspective 100%, but based on nothing more than going through the document on the page you linked, it seems to me they might be gearing up to start delivering some policy pledges, if we start seeing a bit more of this I'll be interested - though I didn't see the interview you refer to.

It's when we get to Manifesto time I expect to see real detail. I might be wrong, but I can't remember much more specificity from other campaigns this far out compared to the document on that page, and they've got similar for all 5 goals. I've not opened them all yet but that's dozens of policy initiatives.

Compare him to who he's actually up against. Sunak with his pledges to do things already predicted to happen, then failing.

[Genie]

Time will tell. I just thought “the highest sustained growth in the G7” is such a big pledge it deserves a bit more than “we’ll do it by working together a bit better than we do now”.

If they don’t come up with some solid plans in the months before the election then the massive lead they have in the polls might shrink rapidly. 

[Davkaus]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

 I just thought “the highest sustained growth in the G7” is such a big pledge it deserves a bit more than “we’ll do it by working together a bit better than we do now”.

 

It has got more than that though, at least have a skim through the document. For each and every bullet point people will be able to say "ah yes but how exactly" and "how are you paying for that", but there's certainly more there than you're suggesting. Maybe he just needs to put it across better in interviews.

Quote

Labour’s plan for sustained growth: bottom up and middle out Labour’s plan will move away from the failed trickle-down ideology and sticking plaster approach to a new model, based on building our economy from the bottom up and middle out. We know that growth does not just come from a few people at the top, but from the talents and efforts of tens of millions of working people and business in every part of the country. A Labour government will provide the platform for working people to succeed, delivered in partnership with businesses, trade unions and local and national leaders. To achieve this mission, we will base our approach on five shifts:

1. Providing certainty and stability not chaos and short-term fixes

2. Seizing new opportunities not letting Britain fall behind in the global race

3. Ensuring all parts of the country contribute not tolerating widening inequality

4. Giving working people skills and opportunities not leaving potential untapped  

5. Building a resilient trading economy not a weak economy exposed to global shocks

These 5 points are again quite bland slogans rather than policy, but each of the 5 has 3 proposed initial policies for working towards them, e.g.:

 

Quote

1. Providing certainty and stability

Growth will only be sustainable if it is built on the rock of economic stability, providing families and businesses with the certainty they need to plan. Labour will ensure strong, robust, and respected economic institutions. We will act as a strategic partner to industry, setting out clear priorities to provide the certainty businesses and investors need.

First policy steps:

Introducing clear fiscal rules with a new enhanced role for the Office of Budget Responsibility.

Setting up a new Office for Value for Money to make sure taxpayers’ money is being spent well.

Providing certainty by setting out a modern industrial strategy and creating a new Industrial Strategy Council to advise on its implementation

For just  one of the 5 top level "missions", there are 5 priorities, 15 policy ideas, and 9 pages of detail, and there's similar for the other 4 missions too. I'm far from Starmer's biggest fan, but what more do you expect at this point?

[Genie]

11 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I'm far from Starmer's biggest fan, but what more do you expect at this point?

Personally I want more detail but I guess it will come. None of what is written so far will move the needle imo but I guess they are keeping that up their sleeves for now (hopefully). It’s just shuffling the desks about and putting new signs on whitehall doors. 
To have the largest sustained growth needs a monumental shift in how we as a country work.

[Demitri_C]

26 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

This is a feeling I've had ever since Starmer became leader, and there are many posts from me criticising him for it over the years, so I get this perspective 100%, but based on nothing more than going through the document on the page you linked, it seems to me they might be gearing up to start delivering some policy pledges, if we start seeing a bit more of this I'll be interested - though I didn't see the interview you refer to.

It's when we get to Manifesto time I expect to see real detail. I might be wrong, but I can't remember much more specificity from other campaigns this far out compared to the document on that page, and they've got similar for all 5 goals. I've not opened them all yet but that's dozens of policy initiatives.

Compare him to who he's actually up against. Sunak with his pledges to do things already predicted to happen, then failing.

Not a sunak fan but at least he has a plan that is failing your right but i think @Genie is right to be sceptical about the vagueness starmer is presenting himself. People saying it can't get worse but it can at least we have jobs available and unemployment is not theough the roof yet.

I guess we will see what happens come thw nwxt 18 months bwfore labour takes over

[blandy]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Not a sunak fan but at least he has a plan that is failing your right but i think @Genie is right to be sceptical about the vagueness starmer is presenting himself.

It’s the other way round isn’t it?  Sunak has precisely 5 things that he repeats as a “plan”, but zero detail. Stop the boats, for example- how? No answer. Labour has a list of things, too. With more detail on “how”. We’re starting to see the workings behind their plans. Given we’re 12 months or maybe longer from an election they’re about where they need to be in terms of presentation, though the actual presenters lack charisma and the media largely ignores what they say anyway, so people don’t get to see what they say.

[markavfc40]

7 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

 People saying it can't get worse but it can at least we have jobs available and unemployment is not theough the roof yet.

 

No offence mate but ffs really?

You are setting a low bar aren't you. We have jobs available but loads of them vastly underpaid due to the lack of growth in the economy since 2010 and inflation through the roof and wage increases miles behind.  Also many of these vacancies are for low paid work in no small part due to Brexit.

Things couldn't get much worse. We have an NHS purposely brought to its its knees since 2010 by the Tories, an adult social care system that has been decimated heaping more pressure on our NHS, a broken housing market, huge increases in both child poverty and working poor since 2010, millions of people leaving Education tens of thousands of pounds in debt, an economy that has stagnated since 2010, the biggest fall in living standards over the last 12 months since records began over 60 years ago, sewage being dumped into our rivers like its going out of fashion, I could go on and on and on, and to top it off that they have created a nation as divided as I can ever remember.

They have achieved all the above at the same time as more than doubling national debt from 1.2 trillion in 2010 to  2.5 trillion today. And before any deceitful Tory bastard tries to tell you that it is down to covid, in 2020 (pre pandemic), the national debt had already risen to over 1.9 trillion.

The only way things can get worse is if people are stupid enough to again vote for these bastards or fall for the ridiculous narrative that they are all the same and Labour will not do anything differently.

Edited July 7, 2023 by markavfc40

[Demitri_C]

3 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

No offence mate but ffs really?

You are setting a low bar aren't you. We have jobs available but loads of them vastly underpaid due to the lack of growth in the economy since 2010 and inflation through the roof and wage increases miles behind.  Also many of these vacancies are for low paid work in no small part due to Brexit.

Things couldn't get much worse. We have an NHS purposely brought to its its knees since 2010 by the Tories, an adult social care system that has been decimated heaping more pressure on our NHS, a broken housing market, huge increases in both child poverty and working poor since 2010, millions of people leaving Education tens of thousands of pounds in debt, an economy that has stagnated since 2010, the biggest fall in living standards over the last 12 months since records began over 60 years ago, sewage being sump into our rivers like its going out of fashion, I could go on and on and on, and to top it off that they have created a nation as divided as I can ever remember.

They have achieved all the above at the same time as more than doubling national debt from 1.2 trillion in 2010 to  2.5 trillion today. And before any deceitful Tory bastard tries to tell you that it is down to covid, in 2020 (pre pandemic), the national debt had already risen to over 1.9 trillion.

The only way things can get worse is if people are stupid enough to again vote for these bastards or fall for the ridiculous narrative that they are all the same and Labour will not do anything differently.

Mark im sure with respect if that was labour in charge you and i presented the debt had gone up you would have said it was covid so not labours fault. We all dislike the tories but lets not hide the pandemic debt cost. There was no escaping that. The furlough scheme (although some people took the absolute **** piss fraudulently taking out grants) was a success and kept people in jobs ans able tp pay their bills.  Then your throw in the billions for the vaccines of cause the national debts going to go up.

The point i do agree on was the billions paid to their tory mates that was despicable 

Im trying to look at a balanced view not a die hard labour supporter

Finally completly agree with your point about NHS its a shitshow

Edited July 7, 2023 by Demitri_C