blandy Posted March 27, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 27, 2023 If only someone could invent a closeable window. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, blandy said: What is it about Labour’s approach that is bitter? The bitterness is that a day or two after the usual Tory xenophobic poster campaign titled 'Stop the boats' - Labour follow up with the same slogan 'stop the small boats'. I like the opposition to oppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 27, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Jareth said: The bitterness is that a day or two after the usual Tory xenophobic poster campaign titled 'Stop the boats' - Labour follow up with the same slogan 'stop the small boats'. I like the opposition to oppose. They have strongly opposed the Tory policy. It’s one of those ones where absolutely nobody thinks the small boats crossing is remotely a good thing. They need stopping. It’s the treatment of people that is the issue, isn’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 7 minutes ago, blandy said: Do you think “I’m going to decriminalise antisocial behaviour” is a good policy for gaining votes? I think restricting people's liberty because a small number of people abuse it instead of enforcing other nuisance laws, almost certainly because it's a policy which can't be summed up in an easy sound-bite, is a depressing state of affairs but no less than I expect from British politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 3 hours ago, juanpabloangel18 said: Then: "I have supported schemes where cannabis possession does not result in arrest/prosecution" The Netherlands has a usage of approx 10% of its population and its totally legal and taxed. The UK is at 7.5% approx and it is illegal. The arrest and prosecution of people and the fact this is the start of an easy way to make money on the street in the UK must cost billions and billions a year. It seems a money pit for what gain ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Well, absolutely. It wouldn't be any better if it was cigarette smoke going through your kids window though would it? If he had not smoked weed and turned music on loud it would still be a problem, if we live close to each other, things happen I suppose. As a teenager its easy to not see consequences for little things as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Just now, blandy said: They have strongly opposed the Tory policy. It’s one of those ones where absolutely nobody thinks the small boats crossing is remotely a good thing. They need stopping. It’s the treatment of people that is the issue, isn’t it? Tories want to solve the problem by sending the lot of them to Rwanda, a deterrent of cruel proportions. Labour message vaguely and closely to the tories, so as not to be accused of wokery. What does the person on the street think is Labour's position? They probably don't know it. Is that strong enough opposition on this issue? Not forgetting the real reason this is a problem - Brexit - and Labour are muzzled on that one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 27, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 27, 2023 50 minutes ago, juanpabloangel18 said: And there we go. My opinion of Starmer could not get much lower. Has anyone told Ed Miliband he might need a new job as well? Apparently not winning an election is grounds for being dumped as an MP. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chindie said: Has anyone told Ed Miliband he might need a new job as well? Apparently not winning an election is grounds for being dumped as an MP. Come on, you know very well that's why he's not been told to do one. He made his bed when he continued criticising the outcome of the antisemitism review and making the wrong kind of headlines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 27, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Come on, you know very well that's why he's not been told to do one. He made his bed when he continued criticising the outcome of the antisemitism review and making the wrong kind of headlines. Oh I know what the real reason is. It's not mentioned in that justification though, and the justification given does also apply to leaders who eat bacon sandwiches weirdly. I continue to look forward to the day the leopard these words removed released decides to eat their faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, desensitized43 said: I guess I'm a Tory then... I had to have a word with my neighbour (or more accurately her uneducated layabout son) who was smoking weed in his bedroom while my 2 year old daughter was asleep in the adjoining house (their rooms share a common wall in a semi-deteched house) and I could literally taste the stuff. I've always been pretty relaxed about legalising as much as you sensibly can do, particularly in the privacy of your own house but I wasn't exactly happy about a 2 year old having to sleep in a room where you can smell second hand weed. That is really annoying/distressing, although bit confused how weed smoke can travel through a wall? Your nuisance aside, we don't ban music just because people often play it loudly at the annoyance of their neighbours. Weed is already banned anyway. It just really annoys me how Starmer keeps finding things to completely swivel on because .... who even knows any more? He's always been an authoritarian-minded establishment Thatcherite? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 27, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 27, 2023 Taking one from Jess Phillips books there. Stab 'em in the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Maybe Corbyn should move down the road and stand as an independent in Holborn and St Pancras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 27, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Davkaus said: I think restricting people's liberty because a small number of people abuse it instead of enforcing other nuisance laws, almost certainly because it's a policy which can't be summed up in an easy sound-bite, is a depressing state of affairs but no less than I expect from British politics. Forgive me, but that’s incredibly inconsistent. It reads like “let me do my nuisance thing in peace and go and pick on the litter droppers instead” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Just now, blandy said: Forgive me, but that’s incredibly inconsistent. It reads like “let me do my nuisance thing in peace and go and pick on the litter droppers instead” Well, no, it's "let people do what they want in the privacy of their own home up until the point at which it begins to affect other people, at which point it becomes a much more nuanced conversation about reasonable accommodations and the expected level of inconvenience we must accept if we wish to live in a community with other people in our proximity", but I haven't completed the thesis yet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 27, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 27, 2023 10 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Well, no, it's "let people do what they want in the privacy of their own home up until the point at which it begins to affect other people, at which point it becomes a much more nuanced conversation about reasonable accommodations and the expected level of inconvenience we must accept if we wish to live in a community with other people in our proximity", but I haven't completed the thesis yet That’s much more reasonable than “instead of enforcing other nuisance laws” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 5 hours ago, Chindie said: Oh I know what the real reason is. It's not mentioned in that justification though, and the justification given does also apply to leaders who eat bacon sandwiches weirdly. Interesting - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Labour only have a 19% lead. They might still lose this, history is not on their side (Labour). Considering the Truss, Boris and budget disasters this is not great at this point ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 44 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Labour only have a 19% lead. They might still lose this, history is not on their side (Labour). Considering the Truss, Boris and budget disasters this is not great at this point ? Given the cut-through of culture war issues like the trans debate, and how that is still getting so much oxygen (some say it did for Nicola Sturgeon) - and given the tories will go strong on this - coupled with Sunak appearing to solve issues like the windsor protocol - I'd certainly expect the polls to tighten the nearer we get to an election. Starmer had far more to work with against the previous PMs, but Sunak appears to be a smart politician, I believe I saw a recent poll where he was felt to be better PM material too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Labour only have a 19% lead. They might still lose this, history is not on their side (Labour). Considering the Truss, Boris and budget disasters this is not great at this point ? It's not really correct to say they have 19 point lead. They have a lead varying from 15% to 25%, depending on which polls you choose to look at. And while 19% is obviously slap-bang in the middle of that, the figures at either end give wildly different results. However the end result of all current polling = "Labour government", so I imagine they'd take it if an election were being held tomorrow. And whether it's great or not, as @Jareth hints at, it doesn't really matter where they are now, it's where they are in a year. But the main thing that's important right now is that nothing seems to move them very much - Sunak is coming off the back of what everyone seems to agree is a pretty damn good fortnight by recent Tory standards. France / AUKUS / EU / party unity etc. Barely moved the dial in polling. In the run up to 1997, the Labour lead was anywhere between 12 and 30 points (so not dissimilar to now). However - that's in the context of Lib Dem polling at 15-20 and no serious right-wing insurgent party on the other side. I think it would take a very good psephologist who would accurately call what that means - I think you could argue that Labour are taking more Lib Dem votes than they did in '97 and a Farage-inspired RefUK could take Tory votes they weren't losing in '97, thus making a 15 point lead for Labour now more powerful the same lead in '97. Alternatively, you could say that Labour need a strong Lib Dem performance, and that the Lib Dems getting 17% of the vote was crucial in eating into the Tory vote enough to hand seats to Labour that they wouldn't take if the Lib Dems get 12%. So sum up - yes, it's perfectly decent and they'll be very happy with where the polls are. But with a lot of stuff that could change for the better or the worse. So ... *shrugs* Edited March 28, 2023 by ml1dch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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