chrisp65 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Not yet Not yet Not yet Not yet Hold... Hold... Not yet Hold... Ready... Too late 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Chindie said: Starmer will be booted before he contests a general election. I don't see it. Booted by who? The left of the party aren't big enough to force him out, but crucially are big enough to get a candidate on a leadership ballot, and the lesson of Corbyn is if a candidate is on the ballot they might win. So I don't see it being in the interests of the right either. I can only see him leaving by quitting, but I'm open to being persuaded of your reasoning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2021 14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I don't see it. Booted by who? The left of the party aren't big enough to force him out, but crucially are big enough to get a candidate on a leadership ballot, and the lesson of Corbyn is if a candidate is on the ballot they might win. So I don't see it being in the interests of the right either. I can only see him leaving by quitting, but I'm open to being persuaded of your reasoning. There's enough ambitious figures in the party to agitate to get rid of him, then it's just a case of waiting for an appropriate crisis. Or manufacturing one. Whether he ultimately is formed to jump or goes himself is neither here nor there. I don't expect him to contest a general election. He's not done a spectacular job so far of portraying himself as either a great leader or a great alternative, and can't see it changing anytime soon. Which will only fuel the fire of binning him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I don't see it. Booted by who? The left of the party aren't big enough to force him out, but crucially are big enough to get a candidate on a leadership ballot, and the lesson of Corbyn is if a candidate is on the ballot they might win. So I don't see it being in the interests of the right either. I can only see him leaving by quitting, but I'm open to being persuaded of your reasoning. I agree. Labour seem to take a lot longer to change their leader than most do. Presumably it's because a lot more moving parts have to align to make it happen, unless the leader goes voluntarily. As an example, who was the last Labour leader to leave the job without fighting a General Election? I can't think of one in my lifetime. (forced out reasons, not John Smith or short-term interims etc) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Panto_Villan Posted February 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2021 My opinion as someone who is not averse to voting Tory when they're in souless accountancy mode rather than their current culture war / fact denial incarnation is that Starmer isn't doing a bad job, and I'll likely be voting for him at the next election (whereas I wouldn't have voted for Corbyn and voted Lib Dem instead). I can see where the criticism that he's not doing enough to make waves comes from, but with regard to criticising the Tory handling of the pandemic I think he's in a difficult position. In the early stages of the pandemic our response was disastrous but I think he'd have been seen as an opportunist if he was overly critical, and he did start being critical of the Tories in the few months running up to Christmas when their overall strategy was clearly muddled. But now he's in a tough spot because the UK's vaccine rollout has been superb and the Tories are enjoying a day in the sun as a result. I don't think it'd be a good look for him to come out swinging and try to rubbish the government's achievements right now; plus even my strongly pro-Labour friends think the teachers unions are taking totally the wrong stance on getting kids back in schools (as does my wife who is a teacher). Honestly I think the Tories will ride a wave of euphoria that we've beaten covid for the next 3-4 months as the lockdown eases, and a month or two after that politics will go back to normal. I think he'll have ample opportunity to make his mark then. I'm sure plenty more details will come out about the sheer amount of money wasted on NHS contracts given to friends of Tory politicians, and there's almost certain to be tax rises in the next year given how much money the government has spent. It's easy for a government to buy popularity when they are spending vast amounts of money but the tide is likely to turn once they turn off the taps. I think it'd be best to see whether he can land any punches then. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, ml1dch said: I agree. Labour seem to take a lot longer to change their leader than most do. Presumably it's because a lot more moving parts have to align to make it happen, unless the leader goes voluntarily. As an example, who was the last Labour leader to leave the job without fighting a General Election? I can't think of one in my lifetime. (forced out reasons, not John Smith or short-term interims etc) I can't think of any examples of that happening to be honest. The closest example is Corbyn's vote of no confidence, but of course that spectacularly failed to remove him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 22, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2021 52 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I don't see it. Booted by who? The left of the party aren't big enough to force him out, but crucially are big enough to get a candidate on a leadership ballot, and the lesson of Corbyn is if a candidate is on the ballot they might win. So I don't see it being in the interests of the right either. I think the issue will be if he continues to lose the faith of the electorate as a valid leader that can win, if that happens there will be voices within the right of the Labour party who will be keen to move him on. I think the left of the party was happy enough seeing an unpopular Corbyn as at that end it's all about dreams and aspirations, but on the right of Labour it's about winning, it's about power first and then see what we can do - if they feel Starmer isn't going to get them there, they'll fracture and having made no friends at all elsewhere within the party or it's wider structure (the unions, the members) then Starmer will find himself in a really difficult position. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-keir-starmer-remain-as-leader-of-the-labour-party?period=all These numbers will be a worry to him and particularly those over the last couple of months - it's what's causing this collapse in confidence that will matter - it could in part be down to the success of the vaccination process, it could be down to his perceived Govt-friendly outlook, it could be an impatience for action from those surveyed, it could be a little bit of voter boredom and the end of new leader bounce - but he's losing the faith of the electorate and if he lets those numbers build he's only a couple of months away from a lot of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I think the issue will be if he continues to lose the faith of the electorate as a valid leader that can win, if that happens there will be voices within the right of the Labour party who will be keen to move him on. I think the left of the party was happy enough seeing an unpopular Corbyn as at that end it's all about dreams and aspirations, but on the right of Labour it's about winning, it's about power first and then see what we can do - if they feel Starmer isn't going to get them there, they'll fracture and having made no friends at all elsewhere within the party or it's wider structure (the unions, the members) then Starmer will find himself in a really difficult position. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-keir-starmer-remain-as-leader-of-the-labour-party?period=all These numbers will be a worry to him and particularly those over the last couple of months - it's what's causing this collapse in confidence that will matter - it could in part be down to the success of the vaccination process, it could be down to his perceived Govt-friendly outlook, it could be an impatience for action from those surveyed, it could be a little bit of voter boredom and the end of new leader bounce - but he's losing the faith of the electorate and if he lets those numbers build he's only a couple of months away from a lot of trouble. You make some interesting points here, but I need to stress that when you say: 'on the right of Labour it's about winning, it's about power first' we need to understand that their priority is winning power inside the Labour party, not primarily winning elections (as we saw when they deliberately set out to tank a general election campaign just four years ago). They have already won power inside the party. Edited February 22, 2021 by HanoiVillan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 He had a good few months around Autumn where he was making calls that Johnson would dismiss only to implement a week later. Some of his best PMQ performances were around then too. Especially one where he listed 5 Tory failures and at the start and then used a question for each. Had the big blonde oaf in a right flap. All gone a bit meh now though. That interview with Ridge left me feeling very uninspired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 22, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2021 Boris under pressure from former Labour person Jeremy Corbyn and leader of the Green opposition Caroline Lucas on sacking Hancock. Prime Minister welcomes support on his plans to come out of lockdown from Starmer but also adds "Who knows what he'll be saying next week?" It's not a good look is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Yeah, he's losing me. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-reopening-schools-strike-b1805544.html Quote Keir Starmer has told teachers not to take industrial action over the government's back-to-school plan and suggested they might have to give up some of their holidays to provide catch-up lessons. Speaking on Monday the Labour leader said unions were right to "stick up for their members", acknowledging that teachers had been put under "stress and strain" during the pandemic. But he said he did not support mooted industrial action over safety concerns, after nine teaching unions warned it would be "reckless" to open schools at all once on 8 March. Speaking on LBC radio Sir Keir expressed concerns that children were falling behind, having previously urged the government to open schools as quickly as possible. Asked whether teachers could be drafted in during the summer to help children catch up, he said: "That may be possible. "Again, schools staff have been working around the clock. Remember, this time last year they were preparing to work through the Easter break and they'll probably end up doing that again. "So they do need a break. There needs to be a long-term plan to catch-up because the attainment gap has got bigger over this pandemic – it was bad enough before it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 'they do need a break' Thanks Keir, big of you mate. Edited February 22, 2021 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2021 Kier, our voter research data shows that people really want to send the kids back to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Am getting serious Jeremy Hunt vibes from Starmer - the future is inoffensive conservative-leaning middle ground. Yuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 38 minutes ago, Jareth said: Am getting serious Jeremy Hunt vibes from Starmer - the future is inoffensive conservative-leaning middle ground. Yuck. Not hugely appealing. But looks like heaven compared to the offensive, alt-right culture war in Government form that we actually have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted February 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2021 Hold up guys, Sir Keir is coming to give the West Midlands the glittering future we've all been hoping for with his spectacular plan to... Set up a savings scheme. https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2021/02/22/starmer-vows-to-rebuild-west-midlands-with-flagship-savings-scheme/ Quote Sir Keir Starmer insists Labour's message is getting through to voters in the West Midlands, as he vowed to "rebuild" the region with his flagship savings scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I kind of think the bond idea is a pretty weak policy, but it might be quite canny politics. It might appeal to the sort of middle-aged people who like the idea of 'national savings' and 'war bonds', and might even get some middle-class buy-in to expanded government borrowing. On a different note, I'm interested in people's predictions about the Midlands mayoral race. I have to be honest, my assumption is that Byrne will win fairly easily, but that's not really based on anything other than Labour being on half as much again as they were in the polls when Street won. Anyone got a more considered prediction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 23, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 23, 2021 They're clearly campaigning hard, I hadn't realised there was an election! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 30 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: They're clearly campaigning hard, I hadn't realised there was an election! I think it's the 'official' launch of the campaigns this week. Byrne has been busy on social media, but I agree it hasn't penetrated normal life in any way yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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