HanoiVillan Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, blandy said: This needs to happen for Labour to win next time. There are plenty places where Liberals came second the the tories with Labour a long way back. Labour needs the Libs to retake or take those seats, because they can't. Whether the Lib Dems present an appealing prospect for voters in 2024 is not something that Keir Starmer is engineering by an abstention on a policy no-one will be talking about in 4 years' time. That's more than a bit '4 cushions and in off the red'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 16, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, HanoiVillan said: Whether the Lib Dems present an appealing prospect for voters in 2024 is not something that Keir Starmer is engineering by an abstention on a policy no-one will be talking about in 4 years' time. That's more than a bit '4 cushions and in off the red'. Possibly, but I'd expect them to have analysed every constituency rte the last election and to have some ideas and areas where they need to push or not push particular lines. And if they haven't, they should be on it soon. If they don't start and continue to monitor this type of thing, they'll definitely lose again. And just to clarify one thing. People maybe confuse me writing why I think Labour have adopted the position they did with "this is also my position". If I were a Labour MP I don't know which way I'd have voted/abstained, to be honest - other than "not for". As I said 7 hours ago, blandy said: it’s a terrible bill, so I’m with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Politicians overthink this stuff IMO. The default option is 'vote against', so just do that unless there is an extraordinarily good reason not to. If this was something incredibly high profile on which the Tories had a massively popular position, then maybe revisit it, but this is just a regular old 50-50 bill that only politics fans are even noticing. There are a million other opportunities to hammer home the 'I'm no Corbyn / We're under new management / I'm a moderate' message, and he's already hit dozens of them. Just a needless error. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 I'm no fan of Starmer's recent actions but I have to say, making the free school meals into an opposition day vote was a masterclass in politicking and Angela Rayner riling the Tories with the scum jibe has only served to make them look even more cold and heartless by drawing more attention to it. It's drawn idiots like Ben Bradley into a culture war that they're not equipped to deal with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 33 minutes ago, darrenm said: I'm no fan of Starmer's recent actions but I have to say, making the free school meals into an opposition day vote was a masterclass in politicking and Angela Rayner riling the Tories with the scum jibe has only served to make them look even more cold and heartless by drawing more attention to it. It's drawn idiots like Ben Bradley into a culture war that they're not equipped to deal with. I can't disagree. Just shaking my head as backbencher after backbencher takes to Twitter and Facebook to post some rancid indefemsible shit, and then complaining in a mixture of panic and horror about 'bullying' and 'being taken out of context' when people quote what they actually think for the world to see. I don't imagine it does anything to the polls, but it's amusing to see so many people humiliating themselves at the same time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Grauniad live page: Quote An investigation into the Labour Party by the Equalities Watchdog has found it was responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination. The party is responsible for three breaches of the Equality Act (2010) relating to: Political interference in antisemitism complaints. Failure to provide adequate training to those handling antisemitism complaints. Harassment A report just published by the Equality and Human Rights Commission identified what it described as “serious failings in the Labour Party leadership in addressing antisemitism and an inadequate process for handling antisemitism complaints.” The EHRC said its analysis “points to a culture within the Party which, at best, did not do enough to prevent antisemitism and, at worst, could be seen to accept it.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 29, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 29, 2020 Not a shocker that. People involved have been leaking hints at it for months. Be interesting to see the ultimate overall analysis of the report as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Corbyn will be kicked out of the party for sure, but it’ll be interesting to see how many Starmer ejects with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 29, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 29, 2020 From a glance over it the report is pretty limp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 21 minutes ago, Awol said: Corbyn will be kicked out of the party for sure I doubt it personally. Has the pretty obvious potential to split the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 22 minutes ago, Awol said: Corbyn will be kicked out of the party for sure, but it’ll be interesting to see how many Starmer ejects with him. He'll do everything he can to avoid kicking Corbyn out because it'll force the left to set up a splinter party and take half the members and votes. 4 minutes ago, Chindie said: From a glance over it the report is pretty limp. It's mainly the same pointless rhetoric that has hindered any reasoned discussion for the past 3 years. The only specifics seem to be criticising Milne/LOTO office for interfering in cases. Which is a bit strange because most people have been criticising Corbyn for not getting personally involved in the process. I see Justin Schlosberg and a group of leftist Jews are putting a legal case together against the EHRC. This could get even more messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Corbyn suspended and whip removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, darrenm said: The only specifics seem to be criticising Milne/LOTO office for interfering in cases. Which is a bit strange because most people have been criticising Corbyn for not getting personally involved in the process. I don't think those are the only specifics, but you're right that this was what was being called for: (article: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-antisemitism-tom-watson-expel-latest-a8794386.html) If you take the report at face value, it suggests - probably correctly - that the entire way political parties handle complaints is non-compliant with the Act. It will not only be Labour who are non-compliant in this way (though it may well only be Labour who are ever investigated). People who are extremely keen to see anti-semites (or any other type of racist) thrown out of a political party promptly will have to be told that their wishes are against the law. Of course, the expectation of consistency in this area is ridiculous. Isn't Darren Grimes now trying to get the Met investigated for investigating Starkey's comments on his show? Legally, they had to do so, for the same reason Ken couldn't be rapidly expelled from the party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post darrenm Posted October 29, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 29, 2020 Lol my take aged well 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 17 minutes ago, darrenm said: He'll do everything he can to avoid kicking Corbyn out because it'll force the left to set up a splinter party and take half the members and votes. Already left and waiting for a party to give money to. Hopefully the Corbyn suspension speeds this up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I doubt it personally. Has the pretty obvious potential to split the party. Starmer said in his speech that anyone who downplays the seriousness of the report or blames political competitors etc (paraphrasing) is part of the problem and will be dealt with. Corbyn released a statement doing pretty much that. I could well be wrong, but strategically this is the best opportunity (to cut out Corbynism from the Labour Party) that Starmer will ever get. He wants to win power and is 4 years out from the next election, so the timing (for him) is perfect. Losing a large chunk of the hard-left with Corbyn would be seen as a result, not a disaster. Like a political enema. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 29, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, darrenm said: Lol my take aged well Now piss on his corpse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 He kinda asked for it, silly old man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) edit: error Edited October 29, 2020 by Awol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: He kinda asked for it, silly old man What's wrong with any of this? Quote My statement following the publication of the EHRC report: “Antisemitism is absolutely abhorrent, wrong and responsible for some of humanity’s greatest crimes. As Leader of the Labour Party I was always determined to eliminate all forms of racism and root out the cancer of antisemitism. I have campaigned in support of Jewish people and communities my entire life and I will continue to do so. “The EHRC’s report shows that when I became Labour leader in 2015, the Party’s processes for handling complaints were not fit for purpose. Reform was then stalled by an obstructive party bureaucracy. But from 2018, Jennie Formby and a new NEC that supported my leadership made substantial improvements, making it much easier and swifter to remove antisemites. My team acted to speed up, not hinder the process. “Anyone claiming there is no antisemitism in the Labour Party is wrong. Of course there is, as there is throughout society, and sometimes it is voiced by people who think of themselves as on the left. “Jewish members of our party and the wider community were right to expect us to deal with it, and I regret that it took longer to deliver that change than it should. “One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media. That combination hurt Jewish people and must never be repeated. “My sincere hope is that relations with Jewish communities can be rebuilt and those fears overcome. While I do not accept all of its findings, I trust its recommendations will be swiftly implemented to help move on from this period.” https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158939532253872&id=330250343871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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