The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[peterms]

Just now, bickster said:

Well my gossip comes from me seeing it and hearing it

Well quote it then, report it, make it public, don't do this pearl-clutching, skirt-lifting bollocks.

[bickster]

47 minutes ago, peterms said:

Well quote it then, report it, make it public, don't do this pearl-clutching, skirt-lifting bollocks.

Peter, you're some random bloke on the internet, I really don’t know why you think I’d be arsed to justify to you something I personally know to be true

[Seat68]

Good night for Labour in Wales, their nearest rival was the Monster Raving Loony Party. 

[ml1dch]

 

 

 

[LondonLax]

4 hours ago, Seat68 said:

Good night for Labour in Wales, their nearest rival was the Monster Raving Loony Party. 

They are done as a party. Brexit has broken them. 

[chrisp65]

I'm not sure that was the election to take too much from regarding Labour's performance.

Yhey traditionally come third by a distance there and it was patently the case that whilst they didn't feel they could withdraw from the fight, they didn't exactly go all out.

Problems remain (pun), but this was not one where they'd have wanted to take 3,000 votes off the liberal. Like the Brexit Representative for Wellingborough took off the tories.

[ml1dch]

30 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I'm not sure that was the election to take too much from regarding Labour's performance.

Yhey traditionally come third by a distance there and it was patently the case that whilst they didn't feel they could withdraw from the fight, they didn't exactly go all out.

Problems remain (pun), but this was not one where they'd have wanted to take 3,000 votes off the liberal. Like the Brexit Representative for Wellingborough took off the tories.

Agreed, but if it's not taken in isolation and taken in context of the other elections fought over the last couple of years, it shows a trend that should be concerning.

Does it really matter if they drop ten points and go from 15% to 5% in Brecon? Not really. But as they've lost between 10-20% in every by-election in the last two years, what about when that same drop in share is (potentially) happening in 80 marginals?

Edited August 2, 2019 by ml1dch

[desensitized43]

2 hours ago, LondonLax said:

They are done as a party. Brexit has broken them. 

They aren't done as a party. Corbyn is the definition of unelectable. He's the problem.

Thing is I'm not sure he (or his die-hard pseudocommunist followers) actually care. They're quite happy with glorious failure, even if it means a lifetime of Tories f***ing up the country. They haven't quite grasped that you might be happy with a manifesto and think you've got some good ideas but if you're unelectable you'll never implement any of them.

[bickster]

27 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

They aren't done as a party. Corbyn is the definition of unelectable. He's the problem.

Thing is I'm not sure he (or his die-hard pseudocommunist followers) actually care. They're quite happy with glorious failure, even if it means a lifetime of Tories f***ing up the country. They haven't quite grasped that you might be happy with a manifesto and think you've got some good ideas but if you're unelectable you'll never implement any of them.

This has pretty much always been the situation with the far left of politics in this country

Far far too happy complaining and in fighting to actually come up with being electable and change anything

[Wainy316]

How do you become 'electable' though without pandering to Murdoch et al?

 

When's the last time the below wasn't the case? 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Wainy316

[desensitized43]

29 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

How do you become 'electable' though without pandering to Murdoch et al?

 

When's the last time the below wasn't the case? 

 

I guess it depends what you mean by "pandering".

It's cliche but "politics is the art of compromise" has always been true and is even more so if you want to be in power. Blair proved it was possible to win over some of that section of the press by moving into a more centre position. Corbyn has also been openly hostile to those media corporations from day 1. He can't complain of media bias while he and his supporters have a go at them at every opportunity. I suspect he's decided he doesn't want their support anyway as it fits his agenda to look like a victim and preach against them from opposition.

[Xann]

If people want to address trickle down for Toffs and tax evasion for chums? They're going to have to elect the 'unelectable'.

Every year it doesn't happen the parasites become more bloated.

[HanoiVillan]

3 hours ago, ml1dch said:

Agreed, but if it's not taken in isolation and taken in context of the other elections fought over the last couple of years, it shows a trend that should be concerning.

Does it really matter if they drop ten points and go from 15% to 5% in Brecon? Not really. But as they've lost between 10-20% in every by-election in the last two years, what about when that same drop in share is (potentially) happening in 80 marginals?

You don't need to draw inferences from elections where they weren't really trying to see that they're struggling. They scored 41% of the vote in GE 2017; they're now polling in the mid-20's. That's all the data you need really. 

[desensitized43]

30 minutes ago, Xann said:

If people want to address trickle down for Toffs and tax evasion for chums? They're going to have to elect the 'unelectable'.

Every year it doesn't happen the parasites become more bloated.

True but you also need to address those issues in a diplomatic way.

You want to get elected so you can tackle "toffs and tax evaders" . You can't get elected without winning over at least some of the media. The media is largely run by "toffs and tax evaders".

Perhaps he could have tempered the rhetoric at least until he was elected?

[ml1dch]

12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

You don't need to draw inferences from elections where they weren't really trying to see that they're struggling. They scored 41% of the vote in GE 2017; they're now polling in the mid-20's. That's all the data you need really. 

True. But you'll often hear (usually from the parties not doing particularly well in them) that "polls don't mean anything, what matters is the result of actual elections". 

So the occasional actual election is useful to remind the party machinery that they can't put all their problems down to believing that Yougov is biased against them.

I'd also strongly dispute that they "weren't really trying" in Copeland, Stoke, Newport and Peterborough.

[HanoiVillan]

Just now, ml1dch said:

True. But you'll often hear (usually from the parties not doing particularly well in them) that "polls don't mean anything, what matters is the result of actual elections". 

So the occasional actual election is useful to remind the party machinery that they can't put all their problems down to believing that Yougov is biased against them.

I'd also strongly dispute that they "weren't really trying" in Copeland, Stoke, Newport and Peterborough.

Of course they were trying in those races. Really, really hard. They just weren't really trying in Brecon, and today they will be really happy that they didn't. 

[Xann]

1 minute ago, desensitized43 said:

Perhaps he could have tempered the rhetoric at least until he was elected?

That cat was out the bag long before he became leader.

Not sure anyone more moderate would have the stomach for the total media abuse that would follow a tax bombshell for the wealthy?

[tonyh29]

2 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

How do you become 'electable' though without pandering to Murdoch et al?

 

When's the last time the below wasn't the case? 

 

when's the first time that was ever case  ?

VT itself has debunked this myth numerous times

[Wainy316]

1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

when's the first time that was ever case  ?

VT itself has debunked this myth numerous times

Maybe not the Sun alone but it's their type of reporting that swings it.

Jingoism and misplaced pride are stirred to convince people to vote against their interests.

I'm pretty sure that social democratic policies win out everytime on a blind policy test against those put out by neo-liberals.  I recall a study that suggested if people voted for polices alone (without knowing who they were attached to) then the Greens would win a GE.

 

[tonyh29]

9 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Maybe not the Sun alone but it's their type of reporting that swings it.

Jingoism and misplaced pride are stirred to convince people to vote against their interests.

I'm pretty sure that social democratic policies win out everytime on a blind policy test against those put out by neo-liberals.  I recall a study that suggested if people voted for polices alone (without knowing who they were attached to) then the Greens would win a GE.

 

I'd be highly surprised that anyone seeing a policy of prison sentences comparable to stabbing someone for people who fly in planes , won't have a slight inkling that they are reading a Green policy