The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Rodders]

well it depends how much evidence there is for those claims, given that Corbyn himself has dismissed them it would be quite the claim to make - i presume they have hard evidence?

 

he's admitting to promoting discussion rather than warring with horrific elements, on the basis that just bombing them hasn't stopped it so why not try something new. But having discussions with Hamas or Hezbollagh ( where he used the friends in the looser sense of the world ) is no different to sitting down with other aggressive nations who've committed various terrorist acts or war crimes to suit various other mutually required needs like Russia, China, the Saudis, America...

 

edit: it would make him no worse than other politicians, but equally it would mean he is no better which would nullify the gains. But we'll see.

 

edit 2: of those few quotes there what is the context - is it discussing the resolution of the Israeli - Palestine issue? If so then someone advocating diplomatic means rather than perpetual violence isn't extreme, although I accept he'd be advised to provide clarity regarding the quotes as well.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Rodders

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

His foreign policy is undoubtedly a mess, but it all stems from a desire for dialogue. In some cases (ISIS), that's clearly a bad approach because they are fascist shitbags and need stamped out. Others, no matter how problematic their beliefs, can be compromised with through dialogue. The belief is that if UK can work with Pinochet,  Apartheid, the Sauds, it can talk with Hamas.*

 

The merits of that can be debated long into the night, but that isn't what the current campaign is about, which has more interest in insinuating that Corbyn himself is antisemitic than discussing his policy in relation to the current UK approach to the Middle East.

 

 

*I'm not saying I share this belief btw.

Edited August 20, 2015 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner

[HanoiVillan]

 

 

AWOL you're only saying that because your a Tory scared of him winning!

Naughty Richard.. Not a Tory, but yes I'm actually scared of him destroying the Labour Party for a generation which wouldn't be a good thing at all. We need a strong opposition, not a crowd of muppets lifted from an episode of Spitting Image.

The UK is crying out for a credible alternative to Cameron and his clique but to my mind Corbyn is not it. That said the other three are soulless puppets who have never had an original thought between them.

 

My view is he will destroy the current labour party / the left wing argument totally and from that a better opposition will emerge.  I'm with you there needs to be a good opposition for good government. Governments are only as good as the opposition generally speaking.  And i hope what emerges will prove to be a good opposition for many many years to come

 

 

What would be a 'good opposition' be in your eyes then? I don't believe you can conceive of a Labour party you would like, you're a Conservative. 

 

Furthermore, if whatever it is is in opposition for 'many many years to come', then it definitionally won't have been a 'good opposition', it will have been absolute crap. 

[snowychap]

What would be a 'good opposition' be in your eyes then?

From the content of his post, something that keeps the Tories in government for many many years to come.

I guess it was meant to be amusing but it does rather betray a lack of understanding about the problems of 'strong government' - that's at the very least.

Edit: To bring it back on topic, it rather repeats a theme from the labour leadership election in that acquiring and holding on to power (and by extension - keeping 'the others' out) is the most important thing rather than having decent government, good policy, evidence-based stuff, some principles. some forethought, & on.

This is not an endorsement of any candidate or, indeed, any party as I don't think there's one of them much interested in that list.*

*Edited again due to too many 'any's.

Edited August 20, 2015 by snowychap

[tinker]

How far have the Labour party fallen to allow this to be played out like it is. Most of the candidates are attacking each other or threatening to split the party if they don't get their own way.  If Courbyn wins the party will either fall apart or he will have to rip it apart.

 

If he manages that and makes it to the election..........the general electorate vote for what sounds right, whether it comes from the left or the right of politics, he sounds very convincing.

 

Maybe a Labour party split in 2  could win the balance of power in a hung government

Edited August 20, 2015 by tinker

[HanoiVillan]

A Labour party split in 2 would be out of power for a generation . . . that really is the one lesson we can learn from 1983. 

[Condimentalist]

Could we have another SDP moment? Lib Dems and the soft left of Labour?

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Poets for Corbyn

 

Some bed time reading for those interested.

[chrisp65]

ahhh, we can all be hung by who we've hung out with. The evil force herself was friends with Pinochet but thought Mandella was just a terrorist. Prince Charles will happily dress up as Lawrence of Arabia to fit in with the Saudi royals and just about everyone has now had a photo op with Gerry Adams.

 

It's good to talk, unless you are talking to baddies we aren't talking to yet. 

 

I listened to that Corbyn interview now being referred to. There were 2 or 3 'random' phone callers in a row that clearly had a strong point they wanted to get over. Which is fair enough, he's clearly the one candidate that has laid out his own sitting ducks to be shot at. One question come statement was about this guy that is the anti jewish racist speaker, since banned from the UK. Corbyn said he didn't know the name, hadn't heard of him. He was offered the chance to 'distance himself' and he said again he didn't know the name. I'm not convinced that was a lie. I guess it can be a high risk strategy to be a busy busy campaigning lefty and get on platforms every night of the week and then SIX years later be asked live on air a question about one such day. I'd have thought a single day for a researcher / intern would throw up another dozen or so similar horrid characters.

 

At some point, somebody started talking to the IRA. How did that turn out? 

[HanoiVillan]

Could we have another SDP moment? Lib Dems and the soft left of Labour?

 

Yes. It's a real risk. 

 

A decade ago, I lived in a house at uni with two guys who were very into Labour politics. A decade on, and they still are - one of them stood for Westminster and lost in a safe Tory seat, and is now a councillor, and the other one, I'm not sure what he does but he's still very very active in the party. I'm friends with both of them on Facebook and they're very frequent updaters, with a high volume of comments, including from MP's (recently including Lucy Powell and Wes Streeting, among others). So I get to see quite a bit of 'the mood of the party', and especially the SPADs, councillors, and people behind the scenes, rather than activists, and I have to tell you the mood is pretty bleak amongst them. There's been stuff about refusing to serve in his shadow cabinet, the possibility of launching a (parliamentary, not military!) coup after he's elected, refusing to vote for anything he says (ie, lining up with the Tories) on 'conscience' grounds, etc. A lot of people losing very badly, essentially. 

 

Another straw in the wind which should worry Labour people is a poll done by LabourList which suggests Stella Creasy may be moving into the lead in the Deputy Leadership race - she's a hardcore Blairite who's backing Kendall, so I don't know whether she will be prepared to work for Corbyn if and when the time comes. 

 

EDIT: I should say, I don't think it'll be the 'soft left' leaving, more like the Blairite right (if it comes to that)

Edited August 20, 2015 by HanoiVillan

[tonyh29]

ahhh, we can all be hung by who we've hung out with. The evil force herself was friends with Pinochet but thought Mandella was just a terrorist. Prince Charles will happily dress up as Lawrence of Arabia to fit in with the Saudi royals and just about everyone has now had a photo op with Gerry Adams.

It's good to talk, unless you are talking to baddies we aren't talking to yet.

I listened to that Corbyn interview now being referred to. There were 2 or 3 'random' phone callers in a row that clearly had a strong point they wanted to get over. Which is fair enough, he's clearly the one candidate that has laid out his own sitting ducks to be shot at. One question come statement was about this guy that is the anti jewish racist speaker, since banned from the UK. Corbyn said he didn't know the name, hadn't heard of him. He was offered the chance to 'distance himself' and he said again he didn't know the name. I'm not convinced that was a lie. I guess it can be a high risk strategy to be a busy busy campaigning lefty and get on platforms every night of the week and then SIX years later be asked live on air a question about one such day. I'd have thought a single day for a researcher / intern would throw up another dozen or so similar horrid characters.

At some point, somebody started talking to the IRA. How did that turn out?

Mandela was a terrorist it's not even up for debate

but from hazy 3am cocktail riddled memory thatcher also played a huge part in getting him freed and was the first western political he met upon gaining freedom as he wanted to thank her personally , of course you'll find countless leftie sources to tell you otherwise but the truth is out there if you look for it

But why no mention of Blair and Gadafffi in your examples ?

Edited August 20, 2015 by tonyh29

[chrisp65]

I put Mandela in for you! I believe the phrase is freedom fighter if you were the winner.

 

As for Blair and Gadaffi, well, yeah. Obvs innit. I'd go Blair and Bush as well, a particularly blood thirsty pair of religious extremists.

 

But the specific names used weren't really the main point. 

[Condimentalist]

 

Could we have another SDP moment? Lib Dems and the soft left of Labour?

 

Yes. It's a real risk. 

 

A decade ago, I lived in a house at uni with two guys who were very into Labour politics. A decade on, and they still are - one of them stood for Westminster and lost in a safe Tory seat, and is now a councillor, and the other one, I'm not sure what he does but he's still very very active in the party. I'm friends with both of them on Facebook and they're very frequent updaters, with a high volume of comments, including from MP's (recently including Lucy Powell and Wes Streeting, among others). So I get to see quite a bit of 'the mood of the party', and especially the SPADs, councillors, and people behind the scenes, rather than activists, and I have to tell you the mood is pretty bleak amongst them. There's been stuff about refusing to serve in his shadow cabinet, the possibility of launching a (parliamentary, not military!) coup after he's elected, refusing to vote for anything he says (ie, lining up with the Tories) on 'conscience' grounds, etc. A lot of people losing very badly, essentially. 

 

Another straw in the wind which should worry Labour people is a poll done by LabourList which suggests Stella Creasy may be moving into the lead in the Deputy Leadership race - she's a hardcore Blairite who's backing Kendall, so I don't know whether she will be prepared to work for Corbyn if and when the time comes. 

 

EDIT: I should say, I don't think it'll be the 'soft left' leaving, more like the Blairite right (if it comes to that)

 

 

Interesting you mention Stella Creasy, she's my local MP - and hugely popular here. I don't have her down as a hardcore Blairite, but perhaps you know more than me. 

 

I'm party to a bit of the Westminster backroom chat through my line of work as it goes, although I am off for August writing a dissertation so I have been a bit more detached. The split within Labour is fascinating. The people who run Labour generally have nothing to do with the bulk of their traditional electorate and it's coming round to bite them in the arse. 

 

Broadly speaking I'm a left Lib Dem sort. I'd welcome some of the soft left of Labour but Kendall etc can do one. 

[HanoiVillan]

Don't be fooled by the feminism . . . it's easy to assume that because she campaigns a lot and has a lot to say about misogyny and rape culture that she's on the left of the party, but she really, really isn't. She's in a group with Liz Kendall and rent-a-gob John Woodcock who scarcely goes a day without stating how much he dislikes Corbyn in public. 

[bickster]

Don't be fooled by the feminism . . . it's easy to assume that because she campaigns a lot and has a lot to say about misogyny and rape culture that she's on the left of the party, but she really, really isn't. She's in a group with Liz Kendall and rent-a-gob John Woodcock who scarcely goes a day without stating how much he dislikes Corbyn in public.

But bit she likes the Wedding Present….

I agree, she's definitely a wolf in sheep clothing. She's not what she first seems

[Guest av1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34013497

Jeremy Corbyn has said that, if he is elected Labour leader, he will formally apologise on behalf of the party for it taking the country to war with Iraq.

Mr Corbyn told the Guardian that Labour would "never again flout the United Nations and international law".

He said there was no need to wait for the Chilcot inquiry into the war "to know that mistakes were made".

Polls suggest Mr Corbyn is leading the contest ahead of Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper and Liz Kendall.

'Past time'

Mr Corbyn said: "Let us say we will never again unnecessarily put our troops under fire and our country's standing in the world at risk.

"Let us make it clear that Labour will never make the same mistake again, will never flout the United Nations and international law.

"So it is past time that Labour apologised to the British people for taking them into the Iraq War on the basis of deception, and to the Iraqi people for the suffering we have helped cause. Under our Labour, we will make this apology."

[Seat68]

I put Mandela in for you! I believe the phrase is freedom fighter if you were the winner.

 

As for Blair and Gadaffi, well, yeah. Obvs innit. I'd go Blair and Bush as well, a particularly blood thirsty pair of religious extremists.

 

But the specific names used weren't really the main point. 

you want blood thirsty, you want diabolical, I will give you bloodthirsty and diabolical.

 

[Mantis]

There is no one on the radio I hate more than Steve Wright.

[bickster]

There is no one on the radio I hate more than Steve Wright.

Whilst I really do dislike him, you've never encountered Pete Price. If you watched any footage of the Queen of Merseyside's funeral yesterday, you'll have seen the prick, he was on EVERY bloody channel.

[chrisp65]

Bloody hell! so is that Steve Wright!!! I didn't even know he was still around.

 

Who's the chap in the blue sweater - presuming it isn't old Thommy Yorke.