The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[magnkarl]

Just now, darrenm said:

Call me uneducated, but I always thought the Jews historically had a bit more trouble with the right than the left?

Definitely. Though recently through this whole trouble with several key Labour party people the British Jewish community has gone to the Lib Dems.

[magnkarl]

Just now, bickster said:

I think you need to understand that Israel is a country, it is not an entire religion

 

Not what I said. What do you think Naz Shah meant when she said "let's relocate THE JEWS"? She didn't mean to move the whole country, including Arabs to America. Did she? 

Jesus, why are you guys defending a woman like this? 

[darrenm]

12 minutes ago, blandy said:

One of the Corbyns has said that trains could have Women only carriages, to stop assaults.

Yeah, right, brain of Britain - and they could have ones for Jews, ones for Muslims, ones for Black People.....

That should solve all the problems in society, with people being picked on assaulted and abused - segregate us all.

FFS.

You do seem to be easily exasperated. I think the key here is the use of the word could. It's perfectly OK to posit stuff before fully thinking them through. AKA 'brainstorming'

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Not what I said. What do you think Naz Shah meant when she said "let's relocate THE JEWS"? She didn't mean to move the whole country, including Arabs to America. Did she? 

Jesus, why are you guys defending a woman like this? 

1

yes it is, you did it in both the posts below

6 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I agree wholeheartedly. Naz Shas' remarks are still anti-Semitic though. Let's super impose a picture of Pakistan (another state founded on religion) over another country and say "Let's move all the Muslims - it'll save us a lot of money!" What would you call it?

 

10 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Okay, you can argue that. What about liking a picture saying that everything that Hitler did was legal? Is that also just "anti-zionist"? Where does the line go?

You don't see it as problematic when a MP comments "relocating them would also save a lot of cash" while liking a picture with Israel imposed anywhere else in the world than where it is?

Let's put it to the Nick Griffin test. If Nick Griffin said "Let's relocate all the Jews out of Israel to save money" would you consider it in any way anti-Semitic?

 

[Seat68]

8 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Jesus, why are you guys defending a woman like this? 

Pre-empting this

On 8/23/2017 at 09:35, Seat68 said:

She really doesn't think does she. For clarity so as a poster doesn't come on and say labour supporters dont condemn when someone does something wrong, I condemn her for her idiocy. Consistently idiotic woman.

 

 

[magnkarl]

9 minutes ago, bickster said:

yes it is, you did it in both the posts below

 

 

You do understand that there's Jews living in Israel right? Just because a territory on a map is on the post when an idiot MP posts a picture of a state in another place in the world doesn't mean that she's not talking about the nationalities of said people, including the religion. You don't need to be a scientist to see that a previous bigot like Shah is clearly talking about Jews.

Good to see the typical anti-Zionist stance conflicted with race\religion though. This is why 80% of the Jewish community feels like labour is anti-semitic. You can use shady language all you want and argue that "we're talking about Israel - not the Jews", but when you mention Hitler and how what he did was legal (like Shah did) it is nothing other than anti-semitism. 

In political terms it's 80% of roughly 300.000 people. Remove underage voters and it's probably something like 240.000. Go labour!

Edited August 24, 2017 by magnkarl

[magnkarl]

Just now, Seat68 said:

Pre-empting this

 

 

Clearly not talking about you. You haven't just mixed being anti-Israel with praising Hitler's legal campaign in Germany.

[bickster]

Just now, magnkarl said:

You do understand that there's Jews living in Israel right? Just because as a territory on a map is on the post when an idiot MP posts a picture of a state in another place in the world doesn't mean that she's not talking about the nationalities of said people, including the religion. You don't need to be a scientist to see that a previous bigot like Shah is clearly talking about Jews.

Good to see the typical anti-Zionist stance conflicted with race\religion though. This is why 80% of the Jewish community feels like labour is anti-semitic. You can use shady language all you want and argue that "we're talking about Israel - not the Jews", but when you mention Hitler and how what he did was legal (like Shah did) it is nothing other than anti-semitism. 

Do you understand that there are non-Jews living in Israel right?

Let's also get something else right, to an atheist like me, religion is an individual lifestyle choice, to equate it with race is frankly ridiculous

It's also quite clearly yourself that is conflating zionism with race and religion, though as outlined above race doesn't even come into this

[magnkarl]

5 minutes ago, bickster said:

Do you understand that there are non-Jews living in Israel right?

Let's also get something else right, to an atheist like me, religion is an individual lifestyle choice, to equate it with race is frankly ridiculous

It's also quite clearly yourself that is conflating zionism with race and religion, though as outlined above race doesn't even come into this

Okay. Let's take it into your terms then. What do you think Shah meant when saying what Hitler did was legal (May I remind you - long before Israel was even founded)? What do you think she meant when imposing a picture of Israel over USA and saying "that'll save lots of money too!"?

What do you think it meant when she liked AND retweeted a post blaming victims of gang-grooming?

I'm sure she meant nothing right? She's clearly an outstanding MP.

Israel has nothing to do with how she's clearly not fit to be in parliament. Defending this sort of bigotry is nothing better - Jeremy's inaction on this is deafening. He's just pushed someone out for being far less marginal in her language in Champion while this woman gets to stay in her position? He's got a problem.

Edited August 24, 2017 by magnkarl

[tomsky_11]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

In other news 80% of the Jewish people asked at a recent poll believes Labour is too tolerant of anti-Semitism. 

That would be the same poll that found Tory supporters more anti-semitic than Labour. And UKIP.

[magnkarl]

1 minute ago, tomsky_11 said:

That would be the same poll that found Tory supporters more anti-semitic than Labour. And UKIP.

Good Whatifery Tom. This thread isn't about tory supporters or UKIP. 

[Chindie]

It's necessary for balance, an uninformed reader would look at this discussion and think this apparent antisemitism is an endemic problem unique to Labour, when the poll actually says anything but.

[a m ole]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Good Whatifery Tom. This thread isn't about tory supporters or UKIP. 

No, he's pointing out that it's not a Labour issue but a people issue.

[magnkarl]

3 minutes ago, a m ole said:

No, he's pointing out that it's not a Labour issue but a people issue.

I find that most people have no problems with Jews at all. The problem is when hatred for Israel bleeds into anti-semetic bs like Shah, Livingstone, Downing et al. keep bringing up. 

Our politicians should be the last people to be racist, and Labour should be the last party to let anyone who posts racist bs like that of Shah remain active.

If these insults were aimed at the Muslim population (Champion anyone) these guys would be out in two seconds. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by magnkarl

[a m ole]

1 minute ago, magnkarl said:

I find that most people have no problems with Jews at all. The problem is when hatred for Israel bleeds into anti-semetic bs like Shah, Livingstone, Downing et al. keep bringing up. 

Our politicians should be the last people to be racist, and Labour should be the last party to let anyone who posts racist bs like that of Shah remain active.

So we hold Labour under stricter scrutiny over racism than Conservatives?

[magnkarl]

9 minutes ago, a m ole said:

So we hold Labour under stricter scrutiny over racism than Conservatives?

No. We should remove anyone who's racist from politics. Not let them stay in parliament like Shah. McDonnell has said that he'd remove anyone being racist many times before, it just doesn't apply to Shah, Livingstone etc. The only common denomination between them is that they are highly critical of Jews. It's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of Labour supporters, but in the Jewish community it is something that feels very real.

British Jews have very little to with Israel. What we do have a lot to do with is how our second largest party and the traditional Jewish political home in the UK is slowly but surely letting idiots like Shah drag them through the mud without doing anything but a little suspension about it. You'd think that someone who's also a victim of racism in Shah would appreciate the fact that being racist to someone else is extremely hypocritical. 

Sadly, it seems a common theme in some Muslim communities to be racist to Jews. Mehdi Hassan posted a great article on it in 2013.

Quote

The sorry truth is that the virus of anti-Semitism has infected the British Muslim community. It's a shameful fact that Muslims are not only the victims of racial and religious prejudice but purveyors of it, too.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by magnkarl

[blandy]

42 minutes ago, darrenm said:

You do seem to be easily exasperated. I think the key here is the use of the word could. It's perfectly OK to posit stuff before fully thinking them through. AKA 'brainstorming'

Quite possibly I am, Darren. Every time a politician comes out with some sort of bell-end thinking, whether they be from whatever party, I tend to think that the testing of the water with the "benefit of their thinking" tends to just show how **** stupid some of them actually are. I mean why raise these obviously idiotic "ideas" if they don't in some way believe in them?

The Corbyns and the right wing tories seem to have more than their share of bone headed, ill-considered brain farts.

[darrenm]

11 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

No. We should remove anyone who's racist from politics.

Oh good. I'm afraid I can't find your post condemning anti-Semitism in the Tory party thread. Can you send the link?

[magnkarl]

Just now, darrenm said:

Oh good. I'm afraid I can't find your post condemning anti-Semitism in the Tory party thread. Can you send the link?

The last time someone was racist in the Tory party she got removed within hours. Find me a Tory PM who supported Hitlers cause in Germany with some nice slogan pictures and I'll gladly go do the same there. Thanks again for shying away from the problem though. "But, but.. the tory party is also racist!!" Two wrongs don't make a right, Darren.

[blandy]

54 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Anti-Israel doesn't automatically mean anti-Jew.

I wish people would learn to distinguish the two.

If you're going to be picky (not you, but generally) it's not (or should not be) about being anti-Israel either, but anti the Israeli Government's policies and actions.

It seems to have slipped over into being anti Israel for a significant number of people. Similarly with the USA, a number of people are anti USA as a nation.