The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[bickster]

34 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Here's Finklestein showing how solid his historical knowledge is by the way. It also shows that he's a guy that likes to say sensational things.

Link

Again, the line crosses where the words go from criticizing Israel to it being about "American Jews". Livingstone used two of the most discredited historians on Germany's role with Jews to say something idiotic. 

Whats sensational about that? It's an opinion. It's also fairly bang on the money for American politics, the pro-Israeli Lobby has a HUGE influence on American politics on both main parties, where does that money come from I wonder?

[Paddywhack]

On 8/24/2017 at 15:43, magnkarl said:

I'd be very interested to see how those questions were worded before forming any kind of conclusion from that.

[bickster]

 

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

Both historians Livingstone "quoted" are the inspiration for most of the holocaust denial movement.

1

No they aren't, they really aren't

[magnkarl]

38 minutes ago, bickster said:

Whats sensational about that? It's an opinion. It's also fairly bang on the money for American politics, the pro-Israeli Lobby has a HUGE influence on American politics on both main parties, where does that money come from I wonder?

Source please. I'd love to see a breakdown of how much "Jewish Americans" paid Obama, and on top of that I'd like you to prove any valid link between for example James H. Simons (or any other political donor) and Israel - unless what you are suggesting is that American Jews somehow take money from Israel to lobby for them? 

Edited August 25, 2017 by magnkarl

[blandy]

1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said:

Surely anyone who has written a book about "The Holocaust Industry", suggesting some people trade on and benefit out of the Holocaust (as some say about Man Utd and Munich), can't in turn be a Holocaust denier?

I don't follow that line of reasoning, to be honest, Rob. I admit to not being able to keep up with all this stuff, I got lost a while back, but that line looks to me (in isolation), especially with the inverted commas, as being the opposite of what you ask? - i.e. it looks like (maybe I'm cynical) someone who most definitely is - it looks like the words of a sceptic - "the Climate change Industry" rather than "Scientists" would be another example. But like I say, I 'm lost in all the side alleys and diversions.

Anyway, Ken Livingstone should have been hoyed out, and a few more should too.

[bickster]

7 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Source please. I'd love to see a breakdown of how much "Jewish Americans" paid Obama.

Directly to Obama and only directly from the Pro-Israeli Lobby

2008 campaign - $1,179,642

2012 campaign - $811,231

Opensecrets.org

And that is just the start of the sphere of influence, check out the other astonishing figures on that website at your leisure

You challenged something which is pretty much accepted as fact around the globe. It's not a secret

Quote

Pro-Israel: Background

Few lobbies dedicated to international issues are so active and well-fincanced as the Israel lobby. The question of Israel's future has the right mix to attract monied interests -- it's a highly fractious issue with high stakes and it plays a big role in domestic politics.

A powerful pro-Israel force has carved out an influential place in American campaigns in the form of super PAC megadonor Sheldon Adelson. Adelson doled out a whopping $92.8 million to Republican super PACs in 2012, making him the single highest contributor to outside groups that year.

A national network of political action committees supplies much of the pro-Israel money in American politics. Chief among these donors' goals: To support Israeli policy, especially towards its neighbors. That's the Israel lobby's legacy; the movement to institute a Jewish state began with the political influence of Zionists like Louis Brandeis.

The pro-Israel lobby also works to build stronger bilateral relations and to garner American military and economic support for Israel. The financial relationship between the United States and Israel has become increasingly integrated since the 1985 bilateral Free Trade Agreement, the first FTA ever signed by the United States.

AIPAC is the face of pro-Israel political influence, and it supports a two-state solution. Despite its name, it does not make campaign contributions. But pro-Israel entities spent $3.8 million on lobbying in 2013, and AIPAC accounted for roughly $3 million of that figure.

Among the more sweeping bills that the pro-Israel lobby backed in 2013 was the United States-Israel Strategic Partnership Act. AIPAC was the signature supporter. The bill would have erased the process of getting an American visa for Israeli citizens. Conversely, the U.S. still has concerns about Israel's practice of scrutinizing Palestinian Americans more thoroughly before allowing them entry.

More money was contributed from pro-Israel groups to federal campaigns in the 2012 election cycle, $16.1 million, than in any prior year.

-- Emily Kopp

Updated April 2014

2

Clicky Part 2

[magnkarl]

56 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I'd be very interested to see how those questions were worded before forming any kind of conclusion from that.

After lots of digging I found the data.

source

It's a long, long, long survey.

Here's the questions to the three stats:

Quote

 

Q.21 To what extent do you agree or disagree with the following statements?

a. Jewish people have too much power in Britain

b. Jewish people have too much power over the government

c. Jewish people have too much power over the media

d. Jews are more loyal to Israel than to this country

e. Jews have too much power in the business world

f. Jews have too much power in international financial markets

g. Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust

h. Jews don't care what happens to anyone but their own kind

i. Jews have too much control over global affairs

j. Jews think they are better than other people

k. Jews are responsible for most of the world's wars

l. People hate Jews because of the way Jews behave

 

Quote

Q.19 In your opinion, how big a problem, if at all, is anti-Semitism in Britain today?

The stats to some of the above questions seem a lot higher than I thought they would be. 

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by magnkarl

[magnkarl]

9 minutes ago, bickster said:

Directly to Obama and only directly from the Pro-Israeli Lobby

2008 campaign - $1,179,642

2012 campaign - $811,231

Opensecrets.org

And that is just the start of the sphere of influence, check out the other astonishing figures on that website at your leisure

You challenged something which is pretty much accepted as fact around the globe. It's not a secret

Clicky Part 2

What that article shows me is that a pro-israeli group funded Mitt Romney who did not win the election. There's no mention of Obama. All rich American Jews aren't donating to American parties because Israel tells them to - in case you wondered, but it does reinforce the idea that seems to be banded around that some people have about rich all powerful Jews.

Edited August 25, 2017 by magnkarl

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

What that article shows me is that a pro-israeli group funded Mitt Romney who did not win the election. There's no mention of Obama. All rich American Jews aren't donating to American parties because Israel tells them to - in case you wondered.

Suggest you look again. Clue, it's the line directly underneath the one you read

[magnkarl]

10 minutes ago, bickster said:

Suggest you look again. Clue, it's the line directly underneath the one you read

Where exactly does it state what Obama was given by pro-Israeli groups?

16.1 million was given by pro-Israeli groups in total. That's 16.1 million out of close to $2billion in total collected for both candidates. Such power.

May I suggest that this power you are subscribing to Israel is a bit smaller than you suggest?

Edited August 25, 2017 by magnkarl

[bickster]

16 minutes ago, blandy said:

I don't follow that line of reasoning, to be honest, Rob. I admit to not being able to keep up with all this stuff, I got lost a while back, but that line looks to me (in isolation), especially with the inverted commas, as being the opposite of what you ask? - i.e. it looks like (maybe I'm cynical) someone who most definitely is - it looks like the words of a sceptic - "the Climate change Industry" rather than "Scientists" would be another example. But like I say, I 'm lost in all the side alleys and diversions.

Anyway, Ken Livingstone should have been hoyed out, and a few more should too.

No that's not what the book is about at all. Wikipedia describes as

Quote

The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering is a 2000 book by Norman G. Finkelstein, in which Finkelstein argues that the American Jewish establishment exploits the memory of the Nazi Holocaust for political and financial gain, as well as to further the interests of Israel.^[1] According to Finkelstein, this "Holocaust industry" has corrupted Jewish culture and the authentic memory of the Holocaust.

 

Wiki Cliki

Which also explains why he isn't liked by said people but to call him a Holocaust Denier is absolutely bonkers as the whole basis of the book is that it did exist

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Where exactly does it state what Obama was given by pro-Israeli groups?

16.1 million was given by pro-Israeli groups in total. That's 16.1 million out of close to $2billion in total collected for both candidates. Such power.

Did you click the first link that related to the financial figures? If you did and still can't see it then maybe these people can help

[magnkarl]

12 minutes ago, bickster said:

Did you click the first link that related to the financial figures? If you did and still can't see it then maybe these people can help

Okay, I've put on my glasses and across the board in 2012 (according to your link) there was $5,776 million given by pro-Israeli groups. The total contributions to both sides stood at $2bn at the end of the elections. That's 0.00028882% of the total contributions in two long scale billions and 0.2% in two short scale billions. They must be getting a lot of favours for their money for that astonishing contribution.

May I suggest that certain individuals over value Jews and Israel and their power in politics? 

Edited August 25, 2017 by magnkarl

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Okay, I've put on my glasses and across the board in 2012 (according to your link) there was $5,776 millionn give by pro-Israeli groups. The total contributions to both sides stood at $2bn at the end of the elections. That's 0.00057764% of the total contributions. They must be getting a lot of favours for their money for that astonishing contribution.

May I suggest that certain individuals over value Jews and their power in politics? 

I'd say your maths is atrocious. Because without you very odd fraction you've just said that the Pro-Israeli Lobby gave $5.776bn out of a total of $2bn but anyways that's way OT for this topic, can we get back to Labour

[magnkarl]

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

I'd say your maths is atrocious. Because without you very odd fraction you've just said that the Pro-Israeli Lobby gave $5.776bn out of a total of $2bn but anyways that's way OT for this topic, can we get back to Labour

I corrected my maths.

In other news, it turns out that it was Corbyn that suggested the women's only train carriages in 2015. How comical.

clicky

Quote

Jeremy Corbyn is facing a backlash from fellow Labour leadership candidates and others after floating the idea of introducing women-only train carriages in Britain as a measure to protect women from sexual harassment.

 

[bickster]

Just now, magnkarl said:

I corrected my maths.

In other news, it turns out that it was Corbyn that suggested the women's only train carriages in 2015. How comical.

clicky

 

Yes, like I said, your maths is atrocious and still is

If Corbyn suggested that he's a massive idiot but then again I tend to think he's a massive idiot anyway

[magnkarl]

Just now, bickster said:

Yes, like I said, your maths is atrocious and still is

If Corbyn suggested that he's a massive idiot but then again I tend to think he's a massive idiot anyway

We agree on something! Rejoice!

This is funny.

Quote

Diane Abbott said Corbyn was right to raise the issue of the harassment of women on public transport and that the problem would only get worse with the introduction of the all-night tube in London. She said that while she was “not sure” that women-only carriages were the right answer, Corbyn was only proposing a consultation.

Did Abbott actually go against something he did on top of it being the right thing in 2015? Wow.

[NurembergVillan]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

I don't follow that line of reasoning, to be honest, Rob. I admit to not being able to keep up with all this stuff, I got lost a while back, but that line looks to me (in isolation), especially with the inverted commas, as being the opposite of what you ask? - i.e. it looks like (maybe I'm cynical) someone who most definitely is - it looks like the words of a sceptic - "the Climate change Industry" rather than "Scientists" would be another example. But like I say, I 'm lost in all the side alleys and diversions.

Anyway, Ken Livingstone should have been hoyed out, and a few more should too.

I should have been clearer, Pete.  "The Holocaust Industry" is in inverted commas as it's the name of his book.  He lost a large proportion of his family in the Holocaust and has written this book to discuss how many organisations (notably the Israeli government) have traded on the Holocaust (should I be using a capital H here?  I'm never sure...), which is disrespectful to the deceased and to the survivors.

I've not read the book, though, this is on the back of some cursory research.

EDIT - wot Bix said.

[darrenm]

7 hours ago, snowychap said:

Who are these members of the party in the UK?

I've got @darrenm down as one (I think that's right, Darren?) - who else?

Yeah. I joined originally to vote for Corbyn in the leadership election when the party were using some dirty tactics to block him. Then I stopped paying for a few months when I got disillusioned before the election but then resumed on the run up. I really should get involved in the CLP but it’s just that the farm takes up most of the day, and at night, I like to have a cup of tea.

[darrenm]

45 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I corrected my maths.

In other news, it turns out that it was Corbyn that suggested the women's only train carriages in 2015. How comical.

clicky

 

Old news is so exciting.

Yes, we discussed it on here at length I think. Exactly the same as the current talking point, but at the time a women's group suggested it and Corbyn said he'd have to look at it. Amazingly it never made it into the manifesto.

Next time you need to quickly change the subject you could pick Miliband's stone maybe? Or Corbyn's jumper he wore into parliament in 1987? The absolute rotter.