The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[darrenm]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

Quite possibly I am, Darren. Every time a politician comes out with some sort of bell-end thinking, whether they be from whatever party, I tend to think that the testing of the water with the "benefit of their thinking" tends to just show how **** stupid some of them actually are. I mean why raise these obviously idiotic "ideas" if they don't in some way believe in them?

The Corbyns and the right wing tories seem to have more than their share of bone headed, ill-considered brain farts.

Absolutely some are **** stupid. And perhaps I'm not fully balanced in who I hold to account ;-) but it does seem to be the Tories who are especially out of touch on most things. The Labour stuff seems to be around quite hot social issues which people can see from multiple angles. Fwiw I think the train carriages for women only is certainly something to consider. I don't think it's realistic but there's a problem which needs to be solved certainly. Whereas the Tories continually derf about things like calling people n*ggers and turning off the evil internet until the elders release our hashtags.

[darrenm]

4 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

The last time someone was racist in the Tory party she got removed within hours. Find me a Tory PM who supported Hitlers cause in Germany with some nice slogan pictures and I'll gladly go do the same there. Thanks again for shying away from the problem though. "But, but.. the tory party is also racist!!" Two wrongs don't make a right, Darren.

They certainly don't. So the link please?

[chrisp65]

57 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Jesus, why are you guys defending a woman like this? 

There's a joke in there somewhere, but I probably don't have the mental or grammatical finesse to make it funny without turning it into a race joke.

 

[magnkarl]

6 minutes ago, darrenm said:

They certainly don't. So the link please?

If you want to go look through my history you can. The difference here is that the conservatives banned said woman in hours. Shah is still active in the Labour party a year later. Labour would be a lot better if you were also critical of your own party members. 

Being critical to Israel is "pop" in Corbyn's labour. Sadly this has left a lot of room for people who also have some pretty racist views to creep out of the woodwork. Nazir Ahmed, Shah, Livingstone, Bouatti, Oxford students calling anyone Jewish "Zio" etc. You may not consider it a problem, but for the people it targets it's starting to feel like a problem I thought we were past.

Edited August 24, 2017 by magnkarl

[darrenm]

Just now, magnkarl said:

If you want to go look through my history you can. The difference here is that the conservatives banned said woman in hours. Shah is still active in the Labour party a year later. Labour would be a lot better if you were also critical of your own party members. 

Chuka Umunna is a clearing in the woods.

[magnkarl]

1 minute ago, darrenm said:

Chuka Umunna is a clearing in the woods.

I agree.

[PompeyVillan]

12 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

If you want to go look through my history you can. The difference here is that the conservatives banned said woman in hours. Shah is still active in the Labour party a year later. Labour would be a lot better if you were also critical of your own party members. 

Being critical to Israel is "pop" in Corbyn's labour. Sadly this has left a lot of room for people who also have some pretty racist views to creep out of the woodwork. Nazir Ahmed, Shah, Livingstone, Bouatti, Oxford students calling anyone Jewish "Zio" etc. You may not consider it a problem, but for the people it targets it's starting to feel like a problem I thought we were past.

I wasn't aware of this.

[magnkarl]

8 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

I wasn't aware of this.

It wasn't a big national case, but one that was quite serious on an intra-uni level in the UK.

Link

Quote

An “immediate investigation” into anti-Semitism within the Oxford University Labour Club (OULC) has been announced after co-chair Alex Chalmers resigned and more members came forward with allegations of ‘anti-Jewish’ incidents.

It's a problem that I think have crept in with the issue that a lot of labour has with Israel, it's left some space for racist idiots to promote their idiotic points of view. The big difference is of course that the British Jewish community has very little to do with Israel and so it just shows how idiotic racists are, no matter which party they're coming from.

I presume Shah was probably part of a group like this when she attended uni though, wouldn't surprise me.

[blandy]

48 minutes ago, darrenm said:

I think the train carriages for women only is certainly something to consider. I don't think it's realistic

.

Surely the second bit of what I quoted cancels out the first? It's something to be considered for about a microsecond, before realising it's plain daft for about a million reasons and never letting the words out of the politicians mouth?

When Politicians say "I think it's worth considering" what that actually means is "I think it's a good idea". 

It's UKIP levels of stupid, frankly.

By the way, I'm with you on the Tories being often as daft, but this being the Communism 5 year plan thread...

[Seat68]

Remind me again Magnkarl, you are a labour supporter?

[darrenm]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

Communism 5 year plan thread...

Disappointing. I'd hoped we'd be flying the hammer and sickle off every reappropriated building owned by the people for the people within 3.

[darrenm]

46 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

Being critical to Israel is "pop" in Corbyn's labour

It really isn't.

@PompeyVillan er I meant to quote @magnkarl

Edited August 24, 2017 by darrenm

[magnkarl]

4 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Remind me again Magnkarl, you are a labour supporter?

I used to be up until this election. I voted Lib Dems in the last election, though I'm in one of the bluest constituencies in the country so it hasn't really mattered much since I moved here. One of the reasons for me moving to the Lib Dems is the fact that I feel that there's a whitewash of anti-semitism from Corbyn and his team. Oh and Brexit of course.

Edited August 24, 2017 by magnkarl

[Seat68]

Just now, magnkarl said:

I used to be up until this election. I voted Lib Dems in the last election, though I'm in one of the bluest constituencies in the country so it hasn't really mattered much since I moved here. One of the reasons for me moving to the Lib Dems is the fact that I feel that there's a whitewash of anti-semitism from Corbyn and his team.

Every one has their own main bug bear, I get that, do you feel this one gets in the way of a good quality discussion. Its a bit of a problem amongst a small number. It seems to get you quite a lot.

[HanoiVillan]

34 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

It wasn't a big national case, but one that was quite serious on an intra-uni level in the UK.

Link

It's a problem that I think have crept in with the issue that a lot of labour has with Israel, it's left some space for racist idiots to promote their idiotic points of view. The big difference is of course that the British Jewish community has very little to do with Israel and so it just shows how idiotic racists are, no matter which party they're coming from.

I presume Shah was probably part of a group like this when she attended uni though, wouldn't surprise me.

The Alex Chalmers thing seems likely to be bullshit. The only verifiable claim was that a (named) student had walked through Oxford shouting 'filthy Zionist' at a particular student, and had been formally disciplined for doing so. The problem is that the principle of the college stated that the student who was the subject of the allegation had never been disciplined for anything. 

Also, it may very well be relevant that Alex Chalmers is a former intern at BICOM, a pressure group which has tried to redefine criticism of Israel as anti-semitism in the past. 

[magnkarl]

1 minute ago, Seat68 said:

Every one has their own main bug bear, I get that, do you feel this one gets in the way of a good quality discussion. Its a bit of a problem amongst a small number. It seems to get you quite a lot.

I'm an old geezer who's probably not the easiest to talk to or debate with. I get that. I was part of Labour's struggle against racism in the 70's-80's and the fact that it's now turned so blatantly obvious that idiots like Shah are given not only second but third chances at being a bigot irks me. 

On the other hand being critical of labour doesn't seem to go down well on here either, so it feels a bit like trying to put out a forest fire with a shot glass. I've seen leaders like Corbyn come and go - and they usually go for not towing the line. If Corbyn gets rid of people like Champion for that article he also needs to clear out the bigoted people in his party. Racism goes many ways, not just against muslims.

[bickster]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

Okay. Let's take it into your terms then. What do you think Shah meant when saying what Hitler did was legal (May I remind you - long before Israel was even founded)?

What do you think she meant when imposing a picture of Israel over USA and saying "that'll save lots of money too!"?

What do you think it meant when she liked AND retweeted a post blaming victims of gang-grooming?

I'm sure she meant nothing right? She's clearly an outstanding MP.

Israel has nothing to do with how she's clearly not fit to be in parliament. Defending this sort of bigotry is nothing better - Jeremy's inaction on this is deafening. He's just pushed someone out for being far less marginal in her language in Champion while this woman gets to stay in her position? He's got a problem.

4

1) She didn't say it, Martin Luther King Jr did and without looking at the context, i'd suggest he meant that just because something is legal it doesn't make it right. Do you have a problem with that?

2) I would imagine that she meant that the state of Israel is effectively the willing agent of American Imperialist ambitions in the Middle East, hardly that controversial an opinion

3) Already explained Twitter to you, really shouldn't need to repeat myself. If she undid those actions, it was clearly either a mistake or she's rethought it. |It's one act of idiocy, agreed, do you actually think that's her opinion? Me I have no idea. I do understand how easy it is to make a mistake on Twitter, like I said, I've done it quite often

4) I have no idea how effective she is at representing her constituents

[magnkarl]

8 minutes ago, bickster said:

1) She didn't say it, Martin Luther King Jr did and without looking at the context, i'd suggest he meant that just because something is legal it doesn't make it right. Do you have a problem with that?

2) I would imagine that she meant that the state of Israel is effectively the willing agent of American Imperialist ambitions in the Middle East, hardly that controversial an opinion

3) Already explained Twitter to you, really shouldn't need to repeat myself. If she undid those actions, it was clearly either a mistake or she's rethought it. |It's one act of idiocy, agreed, do you actually think that's her opinion? Me I have no idea. I do understand how easy it is to make a mistake on Twitter, like I said, I've done it quite often

4) I have no idea how effective she is at representing her constituents

We're all entitled to our opinions. I think you are painting a very rose-tinted picture here.

Also, is that why she stood up in parliament and admitted what she said was anti-Semitic? Pretty much the whole of parliament condemned her posts. If it is as above she wouldn't even have been suspended.

Edited August 24, 2017 by magnkarl

[darrenm]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

We're all entitled to our opinions. I think you are painting a very rose-tinted picture here.

Personally I think it's pretty balanced and reasoned where your position is quite reactionary, extreme and fanatical.

Continuing on from tweeting by accident - I once retweeted something really racist. I read it, laughed, and retweeted without really taking it in. Horrified once I'd actually engaged brain. Lost me a lot of followers and no apologising made it better.

[magnkarl]

29 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Personally I think it's pretty balanced and reasoned where your position is quite reactionary, extreme and fanatical.

Continuing on from tweeting by accident - I once retweeted something really racist. I read it, laughed, and retweeted without really taking it in. Horrified once I'd actually engaged brain. Lost me a lot of followers and no apologising made it better.

Are you elected to represent the interests of your constituency? Mrs. Shah is. Do you think it's well advised to post what she did on twitter, comment on those ideas about Israel, Jews and so on? She should know better.

To be honest I think she is getting off way too easily, and that the track record that Labour has in the last few years on dealing with anti-semitism is appalling. Livingstone, Shah, Walker, Wadsworth, Davis, Downing and not to forget Nazir Ahmed have all done or said something that would constitute a life time ban if labour rules were followed, yet most of them only had a little slap on the wrist. 

That's before I even start talking about the problems that Labour Youth have with anti-semitism. SOAS, Exeter, Manchester, Oxford, Southampton (where I work at the Winchester arm) have all had problems with high profile student union clubs or groups having to be disciplined or worse because somehow these people think hating Israel as a concept equates to being hateful against Jews.

It's all right though, nothing to see here, Mrs Shami Chakrabarti told us so in one of the biggest whitewashes of racism I've seen since ww2. Let's all condemn Champion for writing for the Sun.

Here's a nice little picture showing you the reason why I think this is such a problem again. Link

Edited August 24, 2017 by magnkarl