darrenm Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Are you elected to represent the interests of your constituency? Not until the Health and Fitness Party choose me as their candidate and someone donates my deposit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Just now, darrenm said: Not until the Health and Fitness Party choose me as their candidate and someone donates my deposit. Crowd funding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 54 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Here's a nice little picture showing you the reason why I think this is such a problem again. Link If someone asked me how many Jews died in the Holocaust, I'd answer that I didn't know as well. Estimates are anywhere between five and six million, but unless you've got a more specific figure than that, would you be answering that question in the affirmative? Maybe I'm just a terrible anti-Semite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ml1dch said: If someone asked me how many Jews died in the Holocaust, I'd answer that I didn't know as well. Estimates are anywhere between five and six million, but unless you've got a more specific figure than that, would you be answering that question in the affirmative? Maybe I'm just a terrible anti-Semite. That's not the issue of the picture I was aiming at. The two other statistics are what is showing some of the problem. A lot of people died in the holocaust, but no one can do anything about that now except for try not to repeat the same mistakes. This idea of a global zionistic society that owns everything and the Jews being manipulative, unscrupulous conglomerate owners is a myth that has been debunked hundreds of times. Edited August 24, 2017 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 24, 2017 I think the Israeli Lobby is way too powerful, here and in the USA. Am I an Anti-semite? As for the 46% thinking it's a problem, that really does depend on the way the question was phrased Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, magnkarl said: That's not the issue of the picture I was aiming at. The two other statistics are what is showing some of the problem. A lot of people died in the holocaust, but no one can do anything about that now except for try not to repeat the same mistakes. This idea of a global zionistic society that owns everything and the Jews being manipulative, unscrupulous conglomerate owners is a myth that has been debunked hundreds of times. Who has even hinted at anything to the contrary? My issue is that the graphic that you said showed your point looked like a fairly ropey survey which appeared to be asking some pretty vague, ill thought-out questions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, ml1dch said: If someone asked me how many Jews died in the Holocaust, I'd answer that I didn't know as well. Estimates are anywhere between five and six million, but unless you've got a more specific figure than that, would you be answering that question in the affirmative? Maybe I'm just a terrible anti-Semite. Wow, count me as anti-Semitic too apparently. I've no idea if Jews have too much power in the business world or not. I don't know how many Jews died in WW2 (WTF would I want to know something so morbid as that? I know it was huge genocide), and I don't think anti-Semitism is a problem because I've never seen, heard or experienced it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, darrenm said: Wow, count me as anti-Semitic too apparently. I've no idea if Jews have too much power in the business world or not. I don't know how many Jews died in WW2 (WTF would I want to know something so morbid as that? I know it was huge genocide), and I don't think anti-Semitism is a problem because I've never seen, heard or experienced it. My answers would be broadly similar. "I see no sensible reason why they would" "I don't think anyone knows a precise figure" "Not that I've experienced, but then there's not much reason why I would". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 So when someone who is Jewish tells you that it is actually a problem that they feel and see quite a lot of in our political parties (labour included heavily) it's still not a problem? If you want to see how it is a problem in youth politics, google "UK youth labour antisemitism". Pick whichever news outlet or serious page you want and read about the trends at some of our universities. Some good names to google on top of that is Tayyib Nawaz and Bethany Barker. Or alternatively do a Corbyn and pretend that it's not a problem, publish a report that was supposed to be about antisemitism, and make the final statement about Islamophobia not being a thing within labour rather than talking about the problem and issues that it was supposed to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, magnkarl said: So when someone who is Jewish tells you that it is actually a problem that they feel and see quite a lot of in our political parties (labour included heavily) it's still not a problem? It would depend on who was telling me and whether I considered them a reliable source or not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) It all boils down to the sentiments of this picture really. A lot of youth and some of our MP's who shall remain nameless has made parallels between their hate for Israel and hate for Jewish people. It's nothing new and the lines are extremely blurry. Criticizing Israel is one thing, bringing in Hitler who killed 6 million Jews before Israel was even founded as a state is antisemitic. You can be anti-Israel state (I am - Netanyahu is a nationalistic !"#¤) without talking about Jews. You can't be anti-Israel, conflate the argument and include slogans like the above about Hitler without being antisemitic. It's like saying "the British state occupied Scotland hence everyone who's English deserve being killed in concentration camps." Edited August 24, 2017 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, magnkarl said: You can't be anti-Israel, conflate the argument and include slogans like the above about Hitler without being antisemitic. It's like saying "the British state occupied Scotland hence everyone who's English deserve being killed in concentration camps. There's your problem. You take 1 photo and think it's endemic. Maybe it's more than 1 person. Maybe more than 1 person likes to have their balls stapled. But it isn't very many. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, darrenm said: There's your problem. You take 1 photo and think it's endemic. Maybe it's more than 1 person. Maybe more than 1 person likes to have their balls stapled. But it isn't very many. I'm not saying it's endemic. I'm saying Labour aren't punishing people who are being obviously racist towards Jews like they should. At least 6 people in the last year high up in labour have been targeting Jews. That is a problem - it's not endemic but it is a problem. Would you not agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 1 minute ago, magnkarl said: I'm not saying it's endemic. I'm saying Labour aren't punishing people who are being obviously racist towards Jews like they should. At least 6 people in the last year high up in labour have been targeting Jews. That is a problem - it's not endemic but it is a problem. Would you not agree? Nope. Because I don't know all the facts. And no offence meant whatsoever but I can't take anything you post as fact when you seem a bit removed from reality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, darrenm said: Nope. Because I don't know all the facts. And no offence meant whatsoever but I can't take anything you post as fact when you seem a bit removed from reality. Cool. Do the research for yourself. Livingstone, Shah, Walker, Wadsworth, Davis, Downing and not to forget Nazir Ahmed. That's just senior figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, magnkarl said: It all boils down to the sentiments of this picture really. A lot of youth and some of our MP's who shall remain nameless has made parallels between their hate for Israel and hate for Jewish people. It's nothing new and the lines are extremely blurry. Criticizing Israel is one thing, bringing in Hitler who killed 6 million Jews before Israel was even founded as a state is antisemitic. You can be anti-Israel state (I am - Netanyahu is a nationalistic !"#¤) without talking about Jews. You can't be anti-Israel, conflate the argument and include slogans like the above about Hitler without being antisemitic. It's like saying "the British state occupied Scotland hence everyone who's English deserve being killed in concentration camps." I guess that depends if your Palestinian and had your land stolen and your country bombed the shit out of since the creation of Israel, I kind of understand why those opinions exist Treat people like that and that and a proportion of them are bound to make idiotic broad sweeping wrong statements Thought Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto make a pretty good analogy, to be honest, doesn't matter who the leader of Israel is the state has been consistently systematic in its attitude towards Palestine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, magnkarl said: What do you think Shah meant when saying what Hitler did was legal I don't know what was going through her head but, having just looked up the details of this Hitler legal thing and that it was accompanied with a hashtag of #IsraelApartheid, I'd imagine that she was trying to make a point that just because something is legal that doesn't make it morally right. Edit: I've just caught up with the rest of the thread and have seen that this was pretty much what Bicks posted. Edited August 24, 2017 by snowychap 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: some of our MP's who shall remain nameless Why would you not name them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, snowychap said: Why would you not name them? They're in this thread. Two posts up. Again, I am not calling it endemic because proportionally it isn't. All I am saying is that since Corbyn pressured Champion out of her position for that article a lot of the above people should have also been removed. It's at best hypocritical to get rid of someone who's said some blunt truths skewed by a paper about Pakistani when Corbyn has several key allies who have repeatedly said worse things about Jews. Moreso when one of the MP's who made remarks about Jews actually answered Champion's article and told her to stop drawing racial lines. Edited August 24, 2017 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Just now, magnkarl said: They're in this thread. Two posts up. So you are saying that all of those people whom you've named (included below for reference) have made parallels between their hate for Israel and hate for Jewish people? 59 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Livingstone, Shah, Walker, Wadsworth, Davis, Downing and not to forget Nazir Ahmed. That's just senior figures. How about naming the junior figures, too? Just so we have the full list of the people you're making these comments about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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