Jareth Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, bickster said: Well I’ve already pointed out one. I can’t be arsed pointing out any more because I'm off out to earn some money. But here’s a clue, the entire website is full of conspiracy theory nonsense. ”Declassified has found out that the USAF is flying some planes over the Med” yeah we can all use Flight Radar. There are very few sources. I mean they even called the SAS being based in Cyprus a potential war crime. In a world of perpetual litigation, this article if wrong would have been sued, pronto. Also, for someone who demands facts, metrics etc over opinion, you’ve not taken on any facts in that article - just dismissed it and attacked the website. Is it inaccurate or do you just not like what it says? Edited November 18, 2023 by Jareth 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 18, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Jareth said: , for someone who demands facts, metrics etc over opinion, you’ve not taken on any facts in that article - just dismissed it and attacked the website. Is it inaccurate or do you just not like what it says? Remind yourself how this conversation strand started. The article made a claim with absolutely no evidence. It stated something as fact that at best was an opinion based on nothing and at worst yet another AS trope. It seems to be a recurring theme throughout the website The facts as stated in the article are the problem, it’s the conclusions they jump to based on the facts. The facts as stated are common knowledge the conclusions drawn from them flew over the cuckoos nest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 53 minutes ago, bickster said: Remind yourself how this conversation strand started. The article made a claim with absolutely no evidence. It stated something as fact that at best was an opinion based on nothing and at worst yet another AS trope. It seems to be a recurring theme throughout the website The facts as stated in the article are the problem, it’s the conclusions they jump to based on the facts. The facts as stated are common knowledge the conclusions drawn from them flew over the cuckoos nest FWIW the objectionable part of the article didn't register with me, I was looking for figures which it provided. Also not wed to that site either. I've no idea how much lobbying Israel does in comparison to other lobbyists - but the Wikipedia page for the Israel Lobby, does outline quite a considerable amount of lobbying groups across society, as well as within Labour - so no idea if this is a lot of lobbying compared to a norm, but there's a lot of lobbying groups. A number of groups lobby the government, politicians and political parties on behalf of Israel. Many politicians express their support through national political party "Friends of Israel" groups. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_Kingdom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 18, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2023 Here’s a fun lobbying fact. Kier Starmer has been a member of Labour friends of Palestine and the Middle East There is also a Labour Friends of India, Japan, Taiwan… Never gets a mention In fact, here's Kier Starmer speaking at a meeting of the Camden Palestine Solidarity Campaign just for you know, shits and giggles the bloody Zionist . I believe that banner behind him says Kick Israeli Racism out of FIFA. He's been bought by the bloody Palestinians, he has, it’s obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 Liam Conlon selected as Labour candidate for Beckenham & Penge. Spoiler (I'm sure the fact that he is the son of Sue Gray, new Chief Of Staff to Keir Starmer has nothing to do with it) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Helpful as ever Tone, thanks for the input. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted November 30, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2023 It's cold out today, at least Kissinger will be warm. Save a space for Tone, Hank! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted December 3, 2023 Moderator Share Posted December 3, 2023 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 3, 2023 Author Share Posted December 3, 2023 47 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I cant believe a labour leader is sort of praising thatcher. Madness I get you want to appeal to tory voters but **** hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 3, 2023 Moderator Share Posted December 3, 2023 19 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I cant believe a labour leader is sort of praising thatcher. Madness I get you want to appeal to tory voters but **** hell Who got all the (more);positive headlines this weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 3, 2023 Author Share Posted December 3, 2023 1 minute ago, bickster said: Who got all the (more);positive headlines this weekend? Nobody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 31 minutes ago, bickster said: Who got all the (more);positive headlines this weekend? The one that said what Thatcher did was for our own good. I am so disheartened with the whole shitshow. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 It's not all about Thatcher, he's also promising to deliver the Brexit dividend and be tough on immigration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jon Posted December 3, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted December 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I cant believe a labour leader is sort of praising thatcher. Madness I get you want to appeal to tory voters but **** hell He's just following the Blair mantra. Everything about this guy sucks 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 56 minutes ago, Jon said: He's just following the Blair mantra. He's following the Cameron mantra. Pick the words that you need to say to make the voters that you need to switch, switch. For Cameron it was saying a couple of nice things about Blair in The Guardian, for Starmer it's saying a couple of nice things about Thatcher in The Telegraph. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 In this regard I mean. Basically accepting thatcherism. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-22073434 Quote Tony Blair: 'My job was to build on some Thatcher policies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted December 3, 2023 Change. Lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted December 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted December 4, 2023 Those criticising Starmer for the comment, have you read what he has actually said rather than articles about what he has said? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/02/voters-have-been-betrayed-on-brexit-and-immigration/ Paywalled sadly but the following is the only reference to Thatcher in question Quote Every moment of meaningful change in modern British politics begins with the realisation that politics must act in service of the British people, rather than dictating to them. Margaret Thatcher sought to drag Britain out of its stupor by setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism. Tony Blair reimagined a stale, outdated Labour Party into one that could seize the optimism of the late 90s. A century ago, Clement Attlee wrote that Labour must be a party of duty and patriotism, not abstract theory. To build a “New Jerusalem” meant first casting off the mind-forged manacles. That lesson is as true today as it was then. That is it; 1 sentence about "entrepreneurialism" and its "praising" that she tried to do that and then goes onto Blair and Attlee. It's not even suggesting in language that he agrees with her policies or thought she actually did right but of course the language has been twisted by the Telegraph in their front page piece. The rest of the article is basically a PR bit for Telegraph readers to say we are also going to sort out immigration, small boats, finances etc. etc. etc. all what to be expected; and don't forget the audience that article is intended for. Don't just assume the click bait is anything more than that. I think the bigger story is that the Telegraph is actually allowing a different perspective to be held and they seem to know that the writing is on the wall for the Tories right now; might as well get on the side of the winners. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 4, 2023 Author Share Posted December 4, 2023 Just now, cyrusr said: Those criticising Starmer for the comment, have you read what he has actually said rather than articles about what he has said? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/02/voters-have-been-betrayed-on-brexit-and-immigration/ Paywalled sadly but the following is the only reference to Thatcher in question That is it; 1 sentence about "entrepreneurialism" and its "praising" that she tried to do that and then goes onto Blair and Attlee. It's not even suggesting in language that he agrees with her policies or thought she actually did right but of course the language has been twisted by the Telegraph in their front page piece. The rest of the article is basically a PR bit for Telegraph readers to say we are also going to sort out immigration, small boats, finances etc. etc. etc. all what to be expected; and don't forget the audience that article is intended for. Don't just assume the click bait is anything more than that. I think the bigger story is that the Telegraph is actually allowing a different perspective to be held and they seem to know that the writing is on the wall for the Tories right now; might as well get on the side of the winners. We have read it but giving even a inkling of praise to a tory leader despised by labour voters is not a good idea. Why not just praise other labour figures? Also seen starmer say there wont be much spending if labour win. So sounds like more of the same as we currently have then. Yippee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted December 4, 2023 The problem with what he said (and I know some posters will be whirring up their rebuttals already of how this is a wonderful thing for a Labour politician to say and/or how it's all just gameplaying and he doesn't really mean it, honest) is a twofold. Firstly praising Thatcher for anything is a bit like the old Mussolini gag - at least he made the trains run on time. Wonderful, but you kinda miss the rest of it, which was awful and easily arguable is the foundation of why a lot of the country is ****. All the boosting of entreprenurial spirit isn't going to make up for the fact that that was built on **** over millions of people and sending whole communities to the dogs. Secondly, by praising Thatcher for 'bringing Britain out of it's stupor' he's pointedly throwing his antecedents under the bus. Say something nice about Wilson, Keir, go on. It also kinda underlines that he doesn't really want to change anything. He's the continuity bollocks. Sorry everything is shit, we'll stamp on your face with slightly softer soles. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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