The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[ml1dch]

Call me cynical, but I think a lot of these resignations are going to end up being pretty performative. 

Resign, let Starmer walk away with his authority intact, they get to "have done the right thing" for their constituents and then they quietly get their job back in the next reshuffle. 

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Am I missing the significance of the UK calling for a ceasefire in a conflict we're not involved in, like Hamas and Israel will knock it off if enough British MPs vote for it? It seems like an odd battle to pick

It’s absolutely classic left wing symbolism in the face of practicality 

[Demitri_C]

10 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Am I missing the significance of the UK calling for a ceasefire in a conflict we're not involved in, like Hamas and Israel will knock it off if enough British MPs vote for it? It seems like an odd battle to pick

Exactly my thoughts 

No one wants a war but as if they going to listen to us. They may listen to US but you think they gonna pay attention to our MPs calling for a ceasefire?

This is starmers toughest test since been leader be curious to see how he handles this as if he is going to be PM he is going to have  lot more than this to deal with

[PaulC]

It's a tricky one for Labour mps. Dammed if you do dammed if you don't.  I wouid hope the ones that voted against a ceasefire have done so with a heavy heart.

[chrisp65]

20 minutes ago, PaulC said:

It's a tricky one for Labour mps. Dammed if you do dammed if you don't.  I wouid hope the ones that voted against a ceasefire have done so with a heavy heart.

A heavy **** heart?

I voted for the war to continue, but I was sad.

That’s about as Starmer as it’s possible to be.

Next week: I burned his tent, but it put me off my dinner.

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

Is there anything in there you're aware of that'd tie our hands in this regard? The details on the news are scant and I'm certainly not reading the damn thing

No idea, but you’d imagine a government that left the EU to get our sovereignty back wouldn’t be forced by others to deliver stuff to a warring nation they didn’t support.

[bickster]

1. Wasn’t there a Labour amendment calling for a “humanitarian pause”? Genuine question as I’m out at the minute and…

2. Weren’t Labour being whipped to abstain on the SNP amendment not vote against it?

[OutByEaster?]

I want to vote for a leader that wants less kids to be dead - even if that leader's influence on whether they are or not isn't really that great.

I want a leader to be someone who has values.

For me, it's not about what Starmer's view says to Israel, it's what Starmer's view says about Starmer.

 

 

[chrisp65]

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

1. Wasn’t there a Labour amendment calling for a “humanitarian pause”? Genuine question as I’m out at the minute and…

2. Weren’t Labour being whipped to abstain on the SNP amendment not vote against it?

Yeah, in fairness to Starmer he wants a pause to get some bandages and bread in there for the children, then resume the bombing.

 

[VILLAMARV]

he's got to prove he'd pre-emptively press the genocide button or he'll have no chance

[bickster]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I want to vote for a leader that wants less kids to be dead - even if that leader's influence on whether they are or not isn't really that great.

I want a leader to be someone who has values.

For me, it's not about what Starmer's view says to Israel, it's what Starmer's view says about Starmer.

 

 

I don’t think Starmer's view has anything to do with acceptance by Israel.

I think it's twofold. Firstly he doesn't want the UK's strategic partners to be spooked by a “socialist” who might be viewed as not 100% committed to the cause (whatever that may be). Yes he probably wants something from America. And secondly, on the domestic front, he doesn't want to give free headlines to the RWM about not being tough on terrorism, especially in light of his predecessor’s apparent friendship with terrorists both near and far with the negative headlines that would obviously generate.

The ghost of you know who still looms over the party

[Chindie]

Large swathes of the Labour party wake up in cold sweats every night, jerked up screaming from dreams of being chased by a kind scruffy old man who is worse than mass child murder.

[desensitized43]

10 hours ago, PaulC said:

It's a tricky one for Labour mps. Dammed if you do dammed if you don't.  I wouid hope the ones that voted against a ceasefire have done so with a heavy heart.

I would think judging by some of the names and constituencies involved there’s a religious and/or electoral element to it.

Jess Phillips for example will have a massive problem holding down Ladywood if she hadn’t done what she did.

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, desensitized43 said:

I would think judging by some of the names and constituencies involved there’s a religious and/or electoral element to it.

Jess Phillips for example will have a massive problem holding down Ladywood if she hadn’t done what she did.

Jess Phillips is Yardley, Shabana Mahmood is Ladywood.

And you're right that ethnoreligious profile of their constituency is a guide to how their MP might have voted - but it's going to be a mixing pot of doing what they think is right, electoral expedience and genuinely trying to represent the opinions of their constituents in parliament. In what proportion of each probably depends on the MP. 

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that Jess Phillips could wear an "I  Netanyahu" t-shirt between now and the next election and she'd still comfortably hold her seat. 

[Jareth]

Jess Phillips is and has always been laser focused on her career.

Starmer meanwhile wants power, to do good for the UK people - so, is also laser focused, on getting in. But in seeking that objective he'll accept what's happening to the Palestinians as collateral damage. FWIW I don't get this notion that what politicians in the UK vote on has no importance. As one of Israel's most vociferous allies, what the UK parliament says holds sway. If it somehow doesn't matter - then why does it matter what our parliament thinks about Ukraine?

[desensitized43]

24 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Jess Phillips is Yardley, Shabana Mahmood is Ladywood.

And you're right that ethnoreligious profile of their constituency is a guide to how their MP might have voted - but it's going to be a mixing pot of doing what they think is right, electoral expedience and genuinely trying to represent the opinions of their constituents in parliament. In what proportion of each probably depends on the MP. 

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that Jess Phillips could wear an "I  Netanyahu" t-shirt between now and the next election and she'd still comfortably hold her seat. 

You're right, apologies. Point still stands though.

I'm not saying necessarily that they're wrong as I'm the first to say that we need more MPs voting how their constituents would want them to rather than how some party whip bellend has told them they must. 

[ml1dch]

18 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

I'm not saying necessarily that they're wrong as I'm the first to say that we need more MPs voting how their constituents would want them to rather than how some party whip bellend has told them they must. 

I agree. 

Putting aside the topic of last night's amendments (very big thing to put aside, I appreciate) from a Westminster perspective I don't really blame anyone for what they did.

Sensible politicking from the SNP, trying to create divisions in their biggest electoral danger. Understandable response from Labour, laying their own (perfectly reasonable) amendment. Sensible politicking from the Tories in not voting for that (even though it's basically their own position) to help create divisions in their biggest electoral danger, as if they'd voted for it and the Labour amendment passed then the SNP one wouldn't even have been moved.   

No issue with the Labour MPs who wanted to vote for the SNP amendment. No issue with the shadow front-benchers losing their jobs over it. 

[Demitri_C]

Whats Rayners position ? I cant see anywhere if she is with or against starmer on this issue?

I feel as a country we need to stop involving ourselves in everything that's happening in the world. We can't control everything 

We aint part of the Eu either so its sorely our choice to get involved in these matters

As above damned whatever you decide so just stay out of it. Its not our war

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Whats Rayners position ? I cant see anywhere if she is with or against starmer on this issue?

She abstained, which was the official Labour position

Also interesting that people see abstaining as voting for "the war to continue" which it absolutely does not mean.

[Jareth]

Phillips will be kicking herself