The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[sidcow]

24 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

The funny thing is:

bring back Ceefax

rename London Bridge, Phoebe Waller

give royal palaces to the homeless

link ministers’ pay to that of nurses

move the hand dryer in the gents’ urinals at the Crown & Treaty, Uxbridge to a more sensible position.

 

there’s nothing a sensible person could disagree with

Ermmm.. I still use ceefax daily (red button on freeview bbc 1).

Oracle is what needs reinstating. 

[chrisp65]

3 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Ermmm.. I still use ceefax daily (red button on freeview bbc 1).

Oracle is what needs reinstating. 

So he’s already delivered on more promises than Sunak or Starmer.

[Jareth]

6 hours ago, meregreen said:

Whatever he says, won’t make a smidgeon of difference to the Israelis. They are totally set on a course to destroy Hamas. Only the USA can hold any influence over them. And honestly, after the atrocities inflicted on the Israelis on the 7th of October, I doubt even they could hold Israel back. It’s pointless to target Starmer here, he simply isn’t a player. Neither is Sunak or anybody else on this small, post Brexit, rather insignificant island.

So why then don't they urge a ceasefire if what they say doesn't matter? Why do the likes of Spain urge a ceasefire? Starmer is by anyone with a brain the projected PM of the UK next year, of course his position is significant. 

[desensitized43]

7 hours ago, Jareth said:

So why then don't they urge a ceasefire if what they say doesn't matter? Why do the likes of Spain urge a ceasefire? Starmer is by anyone with a brain the projected PM of the UK next year, of course his position is significant. 

I’d guess because despite you’re assertion that the next election is a done deal, it’s not a done deal and a massive part of middle England they’re hoping to deny to the Tories at the next election will feel much more an affinity to the Israeli side than with hamas or the general Palestinian side. It’s vastly unlikely that those who have more sympathy to the Palestinian side are going to vote Tory so it’s a (admittedly very cynical) political calculation.

The right wing press want him to fall into the trap so they can make it a wedge issue, bring up Corbyn at every opportunity and accuse labour of more good old fashioned Jew hating.

Lots of people foaming at the mouth because he hasn’t used some words you’d like won’t change the situation. Even if he came out and said what you want him to say it wouldn’t change the situation on the ground in Gaza or Israel but it will change the situation here for the worse because it’ll make an unlikely tory victory more likely.

[OutByEaster?]

16 hours ago, blandy said:

It’s completely pointless in terms of resolving problems in the Middle East whether a Labour politician says “blah blah” or not. For the Labour politicians it’s just preaching to whichever audience follows them in the uk

I think there's more to it than that - there's a part of it that's not about the effect you have on the world with words, but what the words say about you, what they tell people about the type of person you are and the type of leader you'll be.

There's room for doing the right thing because it's right.

[Jareth]

1 hour ago, desensitized43 said:

I’d guess because despite you’re assertion that the next election is a done deal, it’s not a done deal and a massive part of middle England they’re hoping to deny to the Tories at the next election will feel much more an affinity to the Israeli side than with hamas or the general Palestinian side. It’s vastly unlikely that those who have more sympathy to the Palestinian side are going to vote Tory so it’s a (admittedly very cynical) political calculation.

The right wing press want him to fall into the trap so they can make it a wedge issue, bring up Corbyn at every opportunity and accuse labour of more good old fashioned Jew hating.

Lots of people foaming at the mouth because he hasn’t used some words you’d like won’t change the situation. Even if he came out and said what you want him to say it wouldn’t change the situation on the ground in Gaza or Israel but it will change the situation here for the worse because it’ll make an unlikely tory victory more likely.

Using words we’d like is not the same as making the case for human rights in what is clearly an unfolding genocide - he was a human rights lawyer right? My god the paralysis we have stinks to high heaven and FWIW I don’t agree that he can’t call for a ceasefire - he will win next year regardless - and his pressure on Israel is worth something IMHO. 

[desensitized43]

3 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Using words we’d like is not the same as making the case for human rights in what is clearly an unfolding genocide - he was a human rights lawyer right? My god the paralysis we have stinks to high heaven and FWIW I don’t agree that he can’t call for a ceasefire - he will win next year regardless - and his pressure on Israel is worth something IMHO. 

He's made the case for restraint, he's made the case for pauses in the fighting and for more aid to be allowed in. Him calling for something is not worth a damn thing. What good is him calling for a ceasefire which will just fall completely on deaf ears. It won't even be reported in Israel and be immediately jumped on by the right wing press and Tories at home to try and split off some of the voters. It's your opinion that he will win next year regardless but it's not fact. It could be 12 months before an election and a lot can happen between now and then.

His priority has to be, as should everyone who isn't a massive piece of shit, getting the Tories out so the country and can get some change and start to rebuild after the absolute shower we've had the last 13 years. The Tories want "wedge issues" they can use, don't give it to them. There's literally nothing he can do to stop what's going on, nothing at all. Maybe if/when he's PM then is in a position to do something but the leader of the opposition has no power other than to **** themselves by saying things that will lose them the next election. That's unfortunate for the Palestinian people, but I'm afraid that's just the way it is.

 

[Jareth]

56 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

He's made the case for restraint, he's made the case for pauses in the fighting and for more aid to be allowed in. Him calling for something is not worth a damn thing. What good is him calling for a ceasefire which will just fall completely on deaf ears. It won't even be reported in Israel and be immediately jumped on by the right wing press and Tories at home to try and split off some of the voters. It's your opinion that he will win next year regardless but it's not fact. It could be 12 months before an election and a lot can happen between now and then.

His priority has to be, as should everyone who isn't a massive piece of shit, getting the Tories out so the country and can get some change and start to rebuild after the absolute shower we've had the last 13 years. The Tories want "wedge issues" they can use, don't give it to them. There's literally nothing he can do to stop what's going on, nothing at all. Maybe if/when he's PM then is in a position to do something but the leader of the opposition has no power other than to **** themselves by saying things that will lose them the next election. That's unfortunate for the Palestinian people, but I'm afraid that's just the way it is.

You are Kier Starmer and I claim my five pounds. Fear of losing is taking precedence over everything else - including this issue. Fear of the dastardly Tories creating a wedge is preventing a human rights lawyer from saying what he should be saying (that funding by pro-Israel lobbyists may also have an effect). The Tories are not capable of anything as it stands. They can't call him a Hamas supporter, they can't hang Corbyn on him any more than they have tried. I'm sorry to say that this fear has paralysed UK politics - you even fear it yourself. Starmer needs to grow a spine. 

[ml1dch]

11 minutes ago, Jareth said:

You are Kier Starmer and I claim my five pounds. Fear of losing is taking precedence over everything else - including this issue. Fear of the dastardly Tories creating a wedge is preventing a human rights lawyer from saying what he should be saying (that funding by pro-Israel lobbyists may also have an effect). The Tories are not capable of anything as it stands. They can't call him a Hamas supporter, they can't hang Corbyn on him any more than they have tried. I'm sorry to say that this fear has paralysed UK politics - you even fear it yourself. Starmer needs to grow a spine. 

There is another option - there are lots of people who think that calling for a ceasefire is counterproductive. That all it does is allow Hamas the time and space to regroup and carry out their next attack. That there is very little "...and then what?" if a ceasefire happens.

I'm not saying that those people are correct, but he might be taking the position that he is, not because he's scared of upsetting potential voters, but just because he thinks that it's the right one. He wouldn't be the only one, even in his own party. 

There are no good options, and he's picked one of the many bad ones. But if it were as straightforward as just saying "have you thought of not bombing each other?", then this would all have been sorted a long time ago. 

[desensitized43]

21 minutes ago, Jareth said:

You are Kier Starmer and I claim my five pounds. Fear of losing is taking precedence over everything else - including this issue. Fear of the dastardly Tories creating a wedge is preventing a human rights lawyer from saying what he should be saying (that funding by pro-Israel lobbyists may also have an effect). The Tories are not capable of anything as it stands. They can't call him a Hamas supporter, they can't hang Corbyn on him any more than they have tried. I'm sorry to say that this fear has paralysed UK politics - you even fear it yourself. Starmer needs to grow a spine. 

Damn right it does. Can you handle another 5 years of this? Never mind what's happening in lands thousands of miles away, we have a country that is literally falling down around us because the government we have are populated by self serving talentless hacks who I wouldn't put in charge of running a school disco let alone the country. I think the Tories are capable of much more than you give them credit for. There's a reason they've been the governing party for something like 80% of the last century and it's because they're utterly ruthless and are backed by a multibillion pound right wing press machine that's looking for any excuse to tear a chunk off the other guys.

But yeah, let's go saying all kinds of shit and lose the election so that a bunch of Palestinians (the ones who still have access to any sort of media) can feel like the leader of the UK opposition, who they couldn't name or pick out of a lineup, cares about them, even if his warm words have no tangible effect to their lives on the ground. Good one.

[Demitri_C]

14 hours ago, sidcow said:

Regarding Starmer, he's going to be the next PM. He knows it, everyone knows it. 

He's almost certainly going to be a lot nicer to have in charge than the current lot. 

At this time all he's trying to do is not rock the boat. Upset the least number of people he can. 

I think when he gets in is when well see his true colours. At that time he's got 5 years to show he's a good PM or not.  If nite he'll be chucked out by his party or the nation.   

He'd be pretty stupid to make too much noise right now as he's a dead cert so why put that in danger by nailing your colours to the mast on any significant issue?  I know I wouldn't in his place. 

Absolutely spot on. He wont rock the boat. Why does he need to? We all know labour are winning next election. 

Whether we get alot better who knows but he deserves a whole term to see what he can do. 

One thing i will say its always easier being the opposition as you can attack the party in charge. This is where i have big reservations about starmer. He seems abit weak. When it comes to PMQs i havent been overly impressed. I remember when bliar came in he was very good at ripping major apart. The same with cameron with brown.

Starmer has enough ammunition to ruin sunak. I think rayner comes across more that she can defend herself more than starmer

[ml1dch]

22 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

One thing i will say its always easier being the opposition as you can attack the party in charge. This is where i have big reservations about starmer. He seems abit weak. When it comes to PMQs i havent been overly impressed. I remember when bliar came in he was very good at ripping major apart. The same with cameron with brown.

It's one of those things that voters don't really care about though - the best at "winning" PMQs was always William Hague. Frequently had Blair over a barrel. 

Didn't do him much good in the 2001 election. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by ml1dch

[Jareth]

1 hour ago, desensitized43 said:

But yeah, let's go saying all kinds of shit

You mean the kind of shit that the entire world bar the UK, US and Israel are saying? 

[chrisp65]

No pointing in acting like a leader with morals when auditioning for the job of leader to replace the ones with no morals.

 

[Demitri_C]

31 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

It's one of those things that voters don't really care about though - the best at "winning" PMQs was always William Hague. Frequently had Blair over a barrel. 

Didn't do him much good in the 2001 election. 

Yeah thats true. Hague was the one person who owned bliar but as you say he did very badly as leader. 

It's something i look for though someone that wont stand up for bullshit as well as their policies.

Have to say the state of uk politics is so demoralising 

[desensitized43]

5 hours ago, Jareth said:

You mean the kind of shit that the entire world bar the UK, US and Israel are saying? 

So every leader of the opposition or equivalent has backed unilateral ceasefire? Of course mate.

[blandy]

7 hours ago, Jareth said:

You mean the kind of shit that the entire world bar the UK, US and Israel are saying? 

And what effect has it had? All the rest of the world* saying “ceasefire”. Makes no difference.

And fwiw, whether you call it a pause or a ceasefire is kind of irrelevant at the moment, anyway. In practical terms pauses can end, ceasefires can end.

 

*not all the rest of the world

[ml1dch]

That poll that suggested it might be close did seem a bit strange. 

[chrisp65]

An incumbent political figure getting 50% of the vote is pretty impressive.

Must be doing a solid job.

[Seat68]

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

An incumbent political figure getting 50% of the vote is pretty impressive.

Must be doing a solid job.

Word on the street is he is doing great things to reduce pollution caused by motor vehicles, almost universal acclaim. Sadly doing nothing regarding the pollution caused by Boeing 747s using Kilburn High Road.