The Tim Sherwood Thread

[bobzy]

They absolutely did do it less than Sherwood is doing this season (every game)

But you're right, it's much easier to avoid if you're winning games. We're not going to get that luxury with Tim in charge, I fear.

It's almost, almost, like he's under pressure.

Almost, almost, like Mourinho.

 

No?

[Stevo985]

They absolutely did do it less than Sherwood is doing this season (every game)

But you're right, it's much easier to avoid if you're winning games. We're not going to get that luxury with Tim in charge, I fear.

It's almost, almost, like he's under pressure.

Almost, almost, like Mourinho.

 

No?

What's your point?
Mourinho's under pressure and has blamed his players in one game (the last one)

Sherwood has been doing it all season so far. In fact he was taking swipes at players last season when he was doing well, with ridiculously poor timing. I'd still argue that calling the squad "losers" on the eve of a cup final probably wasn't the best way to prepare the team.

[HeyAnty]

He said too many times.
And he's right. It's unusual for Mourinho to blame his players (although he's doing it at the moment!)

 

He's an expert in diverting attention from his team when they underperform, usually by making a tit of himself.

 

Bear in mind that Ferguson and Mourinho rarely have to say why the side is losing etc.  They will 'often enough' criticise their players - certainly no more or less than Sherwood is doing.

But you're right in diverting attention - both managers tended to talk about other teams rather than their own.  They hate(d) the attention being on their failings.  Again, if you're generally winning, it's probably easier to avoid.

They certainly dont/didnt blame their players very often.  Thats how they build a bond between the team and any player who steps out of line is dealt with.  A player wont run through brick walls for you if you keep that crap up.

[bobzy]

They absolutely did do it less than Sherwood is doing this season (every game)

But you're right, it's much easier to avoid if you're winning games. We're not going to get that luxury with Tim in charge, I fear.

It's almost, almost, like he's under pressure.

Almost, almost, like Mourinho.

 

No?

What's your point?
Mourinho's under pressure and has blamed his players in one game (the last one)

Sherwood has been doing it all season so far. In fact he was taking swipes at players last season when he was doing well, with ridiculously poor timing. I'd still argue that calling the squad "losers" on the eve of a cup final probably wasn't the best way to prepare the team.

My point is that under pressure managers are unlikely to deflect blame onto themselves when things are going badly.

 

You're completely wrong about Mourinho, by the way.

[StefanAVFC]

You didn't address calling the players losers before the cup final. Shocking man management. 

Especially when he's probably the biggest loser of them all.

[Stevo985]

They absolutely did do it less than Sherwood is doing this season (every game)

But you're right, it's much easier to avoid if you're winning games. We're not going to get that luxury with Tim in charge, I fear.

It's almost, almost, like he's under pressure.

Almost, almost, like Mourinho.

 

No?

What's your point?
Mourinho's under pressure and has blamed his players in one game (the last one)

Sherwood has been doing it all season so far. In fact he was taking swipes at players last season when he was doing well, with ridiculously poor timing. I'd still argue that calling the squad "losers" on the eve of a cup final probably wasn't the best way to prepare the team.

 

My point is that under pressure managers are unlikely to deflect blame onto themselves when things are going badly.

 

You're completely wrong about Mourinho, by the way.

I'm not, but whatever. It's one of his best traits, imo.

But yes you're right. Under pressure managers are more likely to blame their players. Unfortunately we're an under pressure team, and Sherwood is never likely to be free of pressure in this job.

 

Edited September 30, 2015 by Stevo985

[bobzy]

You didn't address calling the players losers before the cup final. Shocking man management. 

Especially when he's probably the biggest loser of them all.

Did I need to address it?  I agree it was a crap thing to say.

I'd guess he was trying to instil both 'underdog status' and some fight in the players to prove him wrong by winning something.  They didn't/it didn't work.

[sharkyvilla]

There was also admitting there was a release clause in Benteke's contract just before the final, which instantly upped the transfer gossip when it should have been all about the team going into the club's biggest day for years.  I go back to when he was at Spurs and he was schooled in psychology by the manager of one of the Portuguese teams on the touchline and I was embarrassed for him.  He just doesn't seem to have learnt anything from how other managers conduct themselves e.g. his interview after Leicester was shocking.  He's a bit like Kevin Keegan in that he can't hide his passion, but even Keegan could step back a bit most of the time.  Sherwood is just so up and down, it must be very odd having to work under him.  Still, there is a lot of talent in the squad so I hope eventually things will click.

[bobzy]

 

 

My point is that under pressure managers are unlikely to deflect blame onto themselves when things are going badly.

 

You're completely wrong about Mourinho, by the way.

I'm not, but whatever. It's one of his best traits, imo.

But yes you're right. Under pressure managers are more likely to blame their players. Unfortunately we're an under pressure team, and Sherwood is never likely to be free of pressure in this job.

 

Mourinho has criticised his team all season.  Literally, all season.

After worst start for 17 years: "I'm not happy with Branislav Ivanovic's form, Gary Cahill, John Terry, Cesar Azpilicueta, Eden Hazard, Cesc Fabregas, Nemanja Matic."

 

After drawing 2-2 with Newcastle: "In the first half, from 0-10, we were minus one. It was that bad.

"We were so poor, so bad. At half-time I said I was sorry I only had three subs as I wanted to change six."

"I have to try to understand why they can play so bad in one half and so well in the other. We were bad in every aspect of the game in the first half..

"Too many poor individual performances and it was impossible to be a competitive team."

 

Arrogance like Sherwood too?  You better believe it.  After losing 3-1 to Everton: ""I am the man for the job. I don't think there is better man who could come and do my job."

And now, after losing to Porto: "Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho has questioned the "unstable attitude" of some of his players during the club's poor start to the season.

 

That's just from a quick check on the BBC site as well, which doesn't exactly exaggerate.  It's the (apparent) exact same thing Sherwood is being called up on, except Mourinho is a genius ("best traits") and Sherwood is a clown.

Football.

[AntrimBlack]

 

I think it is more fair to look only at this season. That is when he had his own players. The record is still very poor.

And the blame for most of the dropped points can be laid squarely at his doorstep.

[useless]

Even if Sherwood was blaming himself for our troubles, we'd still be in exactly the same situation, I mean I wouldn't suddenly, think he's a good manager,. It's the results and performances that count.

[bobzy]

Even if Sherwood was blaming himself for our troubles, we'd still be in exactly the same situation, I mean I wouldn't suddenly, think he's a good manager,. It's the results and performances that count.

Yes, completely agree.

People seem to be obsessed by media comment/content as basis for a manager being poor, then herald another manager (doing the same thing) as an example of being great.  Again, picking out bits to backup a dislike for a manager that enhances their view.

It's very similar to how people jumped on every thing Lambert (sorry) did.  The important thing is on the pitch - not whether a manager blames his mum or says "we go again".  Who cares about that.

[StefanAVFC]

Okay then. 

Either way he's doing truly dreadfully as our manager but his persona makes him so unlikeable in addition to his failings. 

Therefore I can't wait for him to go. 

[Stevo985]

 

 

My point is that under pressure managers are unlikely to deflect blame onto themselves when things are going badly.

 

You're completely wrong about Mourinho, by the way.

I'm not, but whatever. It's one of his best traits, imo.

But yes you're right. Under pressure managers are more likely to blame their players. Unfortunately we're an under pressure team, and Sherwood is never likely to be free of pressure in this job.

 

 

Mourinho has criticised his team all season.  Literally, all season.

After worst start for 17 years: "I'm not happy with Branislav Ivanovic's form, Gary Cahill, John Terry, Cesar Azpilicueta, Eden Hazard, Cesc Fabregas, Nemanja Matic."

 

After drawing 2-2 with Newcastle: "In the first half, from 0-10, we were minus one. It was that bad.

"We were so poor, so bad. At half-time I said I was sorry I only had three subs as I wanted to change six."

"I have to try to understand why they can play so bad in one half and so well in the other. We were bad in every aspect of the game in the first half..

"Too many poor individual performances and it was impossible to be a competitive team."

 

Arrogance like Sherwood too?  You better believe it.  After losing 3-1 to Everton: ""I am the man for the job. I don't think there is better man who could come and do my job."

And now, after losing to Porto: "Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho has questioned the "unstable attitude" of some of his players during the club's poor start to the season.

 

That's just from a quick check on the BBC site as well, which doesn't exactly exaggerate.  It's the (apparent) exact same thing Sherwood is being called up on, except Mourinho is a genius ("best traits") and Sherwood is a clown.

Football.

Hadn't seen the first quote, fair enough.
Second quote was the one game I was talking about.
3rd quote again I hadn't seen but both the second and third quote are from this week, which was my point, that he's only just started doing it.

It's hardly "all season" is it? It's still not very often.

 

Arrogance is nothing to do with my point so not sure why you've brought it up.

I've been saying all season that i don't like Sherwood as a person but that it doesn't matter. I don't like Mourinho or Ferguson as people either but I'd be thrileed (or would have been thrilled) if either of them managed our team.
It's not arrogance that is a problem.

Throwing players under a bus is a problem, however. You don't have to be arrogant to do that.

[bobzy]

 

Hadn't seen the first quote, fair enough.
Second quote was the one game I was talking about.
3rd quote again I hadn't seen but both the second and third quote are from this week, which was my point, that he's only just started doing it.

It's hardly "all season" is it? It's still not very often.

 

Arrogance is nothing to do with my point so not sure why you've brought it up.

I've been saying all season that i don't like Sherwood as a person but that it doesn't matter. I don't like Mourinho or Ferguson as people either but I'd be thrileed (or would have been thrilled) if either of them managed our team.
It's not arrogance that is a problem.

Throwing players under a bus is a problem, however. You don't have to be arrogant to do that.

Bold 1:  Depends on what timescale you view 21 August to 30 September as being.   It's pretty much all season to me.

Bold 2:  Who has Sherwood thrown under a bus?  I'm genuinely curious.  His comments after Liverpool seem to say we're doing well scoring 2 away from home but need to tighten up and not lose.  In fact: ""Our performances have merited better than one win in seven games but I said from the start it would be an uphill struggle. We need to stay in the division and if we do we will be stronger next year."

Is that really throwing the players under a bus?

[Stevo985]

 

It's very similar to how people jumped on every thing Lambert (sorry) did.  The important thing is on the pitch - not whether a manager blames his mum or says "we go again".  Who cares about that.

Usually I'd agree with this. It's something I've said many times before.

But blaming players is a very specific thing in this respect, imo. I agree that the majority of stuff said to the press is bollocks and doesn't matter, and again i've said as much before and cited it as reasons not to criticise Sherwood's interviews.

I do think this is an exception though.

[Stevo985]

 

Hadn't seen the first quote, fair enough.
Second quote was the one game I was talking about.
3rd quote again I hadn't seen but both the second and third quote are from this week, which was my point, that he's only just started doing it.

It's hardly "all season" is it? It's still not very often.

 

Arrogance is nothing to do with my point so not sure why you've brought it up.

I've been saying all season that i don't like Sherwood as a person but that it doesn't matter. I don't like Mourinho or Ferguson as people either but I'd be thrileed (or would have been thrilled) if either of them managed our team.
It's not arrogance that is a problem.

Throwing players under a bus is a problem, however. You don't have to be arrogant to do that.

 

Bold 1:  Depends on what timescale you view 21 August to 30 September as being.   It's pretty much all season to me.

 

Come on. Saying something twice doesn't mean somebody has been saying it all season
If Gil didn't score again until the last game of the season would you say he'd been scoring goals all season?

As for the second point, he's regularly blamed players' performances. It's not, on it's own, a bad thing. Maybe he's looking for a reaction. But the fact that we're getting worse and worse suggests it's something that really isn't working

 

[Demitri_C]

You didn't address calling the players losers before the cup final. Shocking man management. 

Especially when he's probably the biggest loser of them all.

To be fair they were losers.

 

The players completely embarassed us. I had no objections to what sherwood said. I take it you are talking about the comments after the game?

[Stevo985]

You didn't address calling the players losers before the cup final. Shocking man management. 

Especially when he's probably the biggest loser of them all.

To be fair they were losers.

 

The players completely embarassed us. I had no objections to what sherwood said. I take it you are talking about the comments after the game?

No, before the game.

He said we had a squad of losers a couple of days before the cup final and said he'd be getting rid of them. Probably wasn't the best time to be doing that

[bobzy]

This new quoting system is absolute gash.  Anyway, Stevo:

 

"Come on. Saying something twice doesn't mean somebody has been saying it all season 
If Gil didn't score again until the last game of the season would you say he'd been scoring goals all season?"

 

I've given you 4 quotes from 4 different games over a period from 21st August to 29th September - and that's just from instances off the top of my head.  How can you come back with "saying something twice"?!

I remember one game where Mourinho gave an interview afterwards and was critical about a player (didn't name who) and it cut back to the MOTD panel and they were all "I think we know he's talking about Ivanovic there".

 

All.  Season.  But hey, it's not Sherwood.  And Mourinho is the best ever.