The Tim Sherwood Thread

[KHV]

I think the 442 was incredibly naive.

To be fair we are spectacularly shite with every formation

[Bunnski]

Going by the form guide we are the worst team in the league, the teams at the bottom are all battling since the start of the season where as we have been in free fall for what seems like forever. The way things are going reminds me of how we finished last season but this time we don't have the comfort of 30 odd points to rely on.

I agree the teams at the bottom have most likely been battling all season but they haven't made a very good fist of it given that we would all acknowledge we have been dire yet find ourselves still well in the mix to survive.

As I said earlier there are a few teams who have punched above their weight yet we have punched well below ours. Your right we are the worse team on current form but as much as the teams around us are, as you have stated battling, Leicester have won one of their last 6 and taken 3 points, QPR won one of their last 6 taken 4 points and Burnley and Sunderland have each won one of their last 6 taken 5 points.

Put it this way at this stage would I rather be the team that has given their maximum and find themselves in deep shit or be the side that has under performed and find themselves in trouble? I'll take the latter especially now given we can perhaps gain some momentum under the leadership of a new manger and coaching staff.

I admire your optimism but feel it's based on hope more than anything else. If Benteke hits form then I feel that will be what keeps us up, Burnley and Qpr each have in form strikers that are capable of getting them the goals needed to pick up the points where as we are stuck hoping that our main striker hits form but the reality is he looks hopeless.

I also fail to see how sherwood would give any confidence for turning it around, he looked out of his depth vs Stoke. His tactics and line up were a big factor in how crap we were and the fact we only created 2 shots after going 1 up is really bad considering we have the players for counter attacking football and should of caused stoke alot more trouble. We didn't create a chance til the 88th minute after the goal, way below the type of performance we need to be putting in to get points out of games.

Sherwood has been here a week! He has his backroom team in place since Friday.

If we won I suppose you'd be saying he was the second coming?

It's way too soon to judge him.

I'll fully form my opinion of him at the end of the season but that doesn't mean that I won't judge each game as I see it. He looked out of his depth vs Stoke, that may change over the next few weeks but the signs aren't good. My point is that people saying we will turn it around and having faith in the manager are basing it purely on blind hope as we have shown nothing to suggest we are better than 3 other teams.

How on Earth did he look "out of his depth"?

We had one shot in the first 88 minutes of the game, it was obvious we were being over run in midfield but he stuck with it. A decent manager would of made changes in midfield especially considering he had some good options on the bench. Bad line up, bad tactics and bad subs.

[VillaChris]

 

I think our time has come. This could have been the season where we finally stopped being dross at the bottom of the table but sadly not. Two consecutive periods where we lose six games on the trot, worst goal difference, switching the style of play mid season, sacking the manager far too late and starting players who are out of form or just completely lacking in quality will be the metaphorical nails in our coffin.

In some ways I think the relegation may be the best thing for this club. The chances of a takeover seem awfully minute while Lerner demands £200,000,000 and perhaps a move down a division will wake him up and severely cut the price, and then a forward thinking owner who understands the complications of FFP will be more likely to come in for a cand follow the direction taken by other clubs.

Proud history, bleak future.

 

I sorry to say I think relegation would be a total disaster for the club. Any half decent player left would be sold, our 'brand value' would drop by about 90% overnight and we would be lucky to get 25,000 in at Villa Park for most games. Every club would treat coming to us as a big game and given our recent history I doubt this squad would be able to cope with the pressure of this. Lerner would demand more cuts and Sherwood would have huge pressure to start well or get the sack. And if we didn't go up in the first season we would be miles behind the rest of the premier league for years to come. We would be like Leeds without the comedy value. 

 

 

 I see parallels with Cardiff appointing OGS mid season and he was woefully underprepared to keep them up. Now they're mid table in the championship.

 

As much as I'm behind Sherwood I don't think he's the best man to get us back straight up if the worst happens.

[GENTLEMAN]

 

 

I think our time has come. This could have been the season where we finally stopped being dross at the bottom of the table but sadly not. Two consecutive periods where we lose six games on the trot, worst goal difference, switching the style of play mid season, sacking the manager far too late and starting players who are out of form or just completely lacking in quality will be the metaphorical nails in our coffin.

In some ways I think the relegation may be the best thing for this club. The chances of a takeover seem awfully minute while Lerner demands £200,000,000 and perhaps a move down a division will wake him up and severely cut the price, and then a forward thinking owner who understands the complications of FFP will be more likely to come in for a cand follow the direction taken by other clubs.

Proud history, bleak future.

 

I sorry to say I think relegation would be a total disaster for the club. Any half decent player left would be sold, our 'brand value' would drop by about 90% overnight and we would be lucky to get 25,000 in at Villa Park for most games. Every club would treat coming to us as a big game and given our recent history I doubt this squad would be able to cope with the pressure of this. Lerner would demand more cuts and Sherwood would have huge pressure to start well or get the sack. And if we didn't go up in the first season we would be miles behind the rest of the premier league for years to come. We would be like Leeds without the comedy value. 

 

 

 I see parallels with Cardiff appointing OGS mid season and he was woefully underprepared to keep them up. Now they're mid table in the championship.

 

As much as I'm behind Sherwood I don't think he's the best man to get us back straight up if the worst happens.

 

Very unfair.

[Jimzk5]

I think the 442 was incredibly naive.

To be fair we are spectacularly shite with every formation

If anything was naive it was thinking changing the manager would immediately see us winning games

[Neil]

 

 

How on Earth did he look "out of his depth"?

 

 

You could argue, he started out of his depth...with all his worldly previous managerial experience to be guiding a premier league team to safety.  Though that's another debate.

Given the job at hand also needs instant results, and seemingly zilch improvement in the team for the first game...I think you could be forgiven for wondering if this is too bigger task.

Though I would say it would be crazy to conclude that he is indeed out of his depth at this early stage, but of course that was qualified in the original post...so I do wonder about the undertone of this question.

[smetrov]

 

 

 

How on Earth did he look "out of his depth"?

 

 

You could argue, he started out of his depth...with all his worldly previous managerial experience to be guiding a premier league team to safety.  Though that's another debate.

Given the job at hand also needs instant results, and seemingly zilch improvement in the team for the first game...I think you could be forgiven for wondering if this is too bigger task.

Though I would say it would be crazy to conclude that he is indeed out of his depth at this early stage, but of course that was qualified in the original post...so I do wonder about the undertone of this question.

 

 

Well he has only managed for 1/2 a season prior, and that was with players and coaching staff known to him. He is very much a new manager, with a new coaching team, and players he doesn't know, doing a job at a club in a tailspin down the league. Ill forgive him short term if he looks all at sea for a few weeks. I don't blame Sherwood.

 

I do blame those, who seemed blinded by his chirpy character, self confidence, - and ignored the fact he is cutting his management teeth - it might work out - but he's the most inexperienced manager weve appointed in my 40 odd years watching the club - the Villa job has broken a lot more seasoned managers than Sherwood. 

[Neil]

 

 

 

 

How on Earth did he look "out of his depth"?

 

 

You could argue, he started out of his depth...with all his worldly previous managerial experience to be guiding a premier league team to safety.  Though that's another debate.

Given the job at hand also needs instant results, and seemingly zilch improvement in the team for the first game...I think you could be forgiven for wondering if this is too bigger task.

Though I would say it would be crazy to conclude that he is indeed out of his depth at this early stage, but of course that was qualified in the original post...so I do wonder about the undertone of this question.

 

 

Well he has only managed for 1/2 a season prior, and that was with players and coaching staff known to him. He is very much a new manager, with a new coaching team, and players he doesn't know, doing a job at a club in a tailspin down the league. Ill forgive him short term if he looks all at sea for a few weeks. I don't blame Sherwood.

 

I do blame those, who seemed blinded by his chirpy character, self confidence, - and ignored the fact he is cutting his management teeth - it might work out - but he's the most inexperienced manager weve appointed in my 40 odd years watching the club - the Villa job has broken a lot more seasoned managers than Sherwood. 

 

 

I totally cannot disagree with anything you say, but of course that lends to the thought rational that you'd be forgiven for thinking he looks out his depth...

And yes, all facts considered, this is probably one of the biggest gambles that Villa have taken in my lifetime.  It could have only been eclipsed by keeping Lambert on though, I might add.

[smetrov]

 

 

 

 

 

How on Earth did he look "out of his depth"?

 

 

You could argue, he started out of his depth...with all his worldly previous managerial experience to be guiding a premier league team to safety.  Though that's another debate.

Given the job at hand also needs instant results, and seemingly zilch improvement in the team for the first game...I think you could be forgiven for wondering if this is too bigger task.

Though I would say it would be crazy to conclude that he is indeed out of his depth at this early stage, but of course that was qualified in the original post...so I do wonder about the undertone of this question.

 

 

Well he has only managed for 1/2 a season prior, and that was with players and coaching staff known to him. He is very much a new manager, with a new coaching team, and players he doesn't know, doing a job at a club in a tailspin down the league. Ill forgive him short term if he looks all at sea for a few weeks. I don't blame Sherwood.

 

I do blame those, who seemed blinded by his chirpy character, self confidence, - and ignored the fact he is cutting his management teeth - it might work out - but he's the most inexperienced manager weve appointed in my 40 odd years watching the club - the Villa job has broken a lot more seasoned managers than Sherwood. 

 

 

I totally cannot disagree with anything you say, but of course that lends to the thought rational that you'd be forgiven for thinking he looks out his depth...

And yes, all facts considered, this is probably one of the biggest gambles that Villa have taken in my lifetime.  It could have only been eclipsed by keeping Lambert on though, I might add.

 

 

Yep, agree on all counts.

 

Quite what Aston Villa are doing gambling on an untested manager in February is beyond me, - lack of foresight - lack of any plan at all - we even acted to late to get his coaching team in !

 

Lets just hope its a stroke of sheer brilliance - and I am just to blind to see it.... 

[dn1982]

Just out of interest if Vlaar doesn't have his worst 3 min in football for a long time would Sherwood be doing OK? The game was crap the performance was flat but if we'd come away with draw it'd be a start you can't legislate for what happened at the end so I can understand Sherwood being so low. We are about to go into our biggest week of football for a while so I just hope he can lift the players.

[Neil]

Yep, agree on all counts.

 

Quite what Aston Villa are doing gambling on an untested manager in February is beyond me, - lack of foresight - lack of any plan at all - we even acted to late to get his coaching team in !

 

Lets just hope its a stroke of sheer brilliance - and I am just to blind to see it.... 

 

Indeed, and not a moment goes by in which I don't hope it is sheer brilliance.  I am both desperately hopeful, and extremely worried at the same time.

My biggest optimisms come from the "unknown factor".

[Neil]

Just out of interest if Vlaar doesn't have his worst 3 min in football for a long time would Sherwood be doing OK? The game was crap the performance was flat but if we'd come away with draw it'd be a start you can't legislate for what happened at the end so I can understand Sherwood being so low. We are about to go into our biggest week of football for a while so I just hope he can lift the players.

 

For me, you can stop the game seconds before that incident and I'd be saying the same thing.  I didn't see a reaction from our players to the new manager, which is what we needed to see...things were seemingly the same and that's where the problem lies.

The next game will be a good indicator if things can be changed, it's crucial in so much that Sherwood has had his first game to see who is/isn't up for it and needs to learn from that experience/make adjustments accordingly.  The next game will give you a better understanding on if we could say if sherwood is "doing ok" or not.  I think at this stage, penalty or no penalty...we can't say one way or the other if sheerwood is doing ok.

[DCJonah]

Out of his depth because of one game.  Ridiculous, but like I said after the game, no surprise the ones who are saying it.

 

If he looks out of his depth after that game then so did the previous 3 managers we've had because they've over seen terrible football and results for much longer than 1 game and they're all pretty experienced in the world of football.

[Marka Ragnos]

For me, you can stop the game seconds before that incident and I'd be saying the same thing. ...

 

 

I don't know. That's a bit of "if we had ham we could make a ham and cheese sandwich if we had cheese ... ." If I could stop a game, I would be selling my time machine to the version of myself who owned Aston Villa because I would have already gone back to 1874 and bought it for a song.

[KJT123]

Well in my opinion the performance vs Stoke at the weekend was exactly the same, if not worse than a Lambert's performance. I know that he hasn't been in the job long but if you look at the other teams that have hired new managers, they have performed better almost instantly. Look at Pulis and Pardew (not even a good manager!).

Having said that I will be revering judgement until we are almost certainly down.

[DCJonah]

Well in my opinion the performance vs Stoke at the weekend was exactly the same, if not worse than a Lambert's performance. I know that he hasn't been in the job long but if you look at the other teams that have hired new managers, they have performed better almost instantly. Look at Pulis and Pardew (not even a good manager!).

Having said that I will be revering judgement until we are almost certainly down.

How many teams are on a run as bad as ours when they are taken over and get an instant boost?  I don't think it happens instantly as many think. 

 

We were on course to becoming one of the worst teams in premier league history.  You can't just turn that around with a few days of work without your coaching staff.

[Marka Ragnos]

Well in my opinion the performance vs Stoke at the weekend was exactly the same, if not worse than a Lambert's performance. I know that he hasn't been in the job long but if you look at the other teams that have hired new managers, they have performed better almost instantly. Look at Pulis and Pardew (not even a good manager!).

Having said that I will be revering judgement until we are almost certainly down.

Please revere my judgement above all others. 

[useless]

Out of his depth because of one game.  Ridiculous, but like I said after the game, no surprise the ones who are saying it.

 

If he looks out of his depth after that game then so did the previous 3 managers we've had because they've over seen terrible football and results for much longer than 1 game and they're all pretty experienced in the world of football.

 

Why do you keep mentioning that it's no surprise to you, which posters are saying he's out of his depth?

[PaulC]

The last new manager we have had who won their first game was Gregory. So this new manager impact doesn't work for us straight away like other teams. 

[Neil]

Well in my opinion the performance vs Stoke at the weekend was exactly the same, if not worse than a Lambert's performance. I know that he hasn't been in the job long but if you look at the other teams that have hired new managers, they have performed better almost instantly. Look at Pulis and Pardew (not even a good manager!).

Having said that I will be revering judgement until we are almost certainly down.

Haha, worse than Lambert?  No stretch of the imagination could say it was worse.  I mean we had 2 shots on target and a goal in the same game, Lambert has done worse than that.

But no, I agree...it's the lack of any change at all that's the most worrying.  I was expecting something, a little of something, but something...player attitudes to change, anything really.