Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 Now from the reaction it seems a draw would have been good enough for some people but I'm afraid if we couldnt win against Stoke in those circumstances Im not sure how we can say that we are likely to beat Newcastle Why? We went into the Stoke game with a manager that had worked with the players for 4 days and his coaching staff for half that. I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect that Sherwood and his coaching staff can start to have a bigger impact over the next week. I am not kidding myself though. Whoever came in was inheriting an absolute mess with players totally devoid of confidence and who’d had all the attacking intent and prowess coached out of them by the previous manager. To turn that around quick enough to keep us up is going to take some doing. To turn it around with in a couple of days was verging on the impossible. I still maintain we have a good group of players. Better that at least half a dozen clubs in this division and equal to another handful. I now also believe we have a manager who may be capable of getting the best out of them which is a step in the right direction as the previous one proved that he couldn't. I agree about the manager and 4 days thing. It's not long enough to change the team's system and tactics. What was disappointing for me, was the lack of motivation. What i think could be done in 4 days is to motivate the players. New manager, new start, 13 cup finals that sort of thing. We saw a bit of that in the FA cup match, but I was disappointed that not much of that seemed to come through on Saturday, although the first 25 minutes or so was encouraging. That's the bit that worries me. Yes Sherwood has time to turn it around, but I was really hoping, as we all were, for that "bounce" to kickstart the players. And it really didn't seem to be the case. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Agree with all that mark. Also think there are a few people who seem to think because they can reel off a list of managers names the club could have chosen better....a rather easily made but harder to substantiate claim ! This might have been aimed at me. I never said the club could have chosen better, and I've acknowledged that Sherwood might have been the best choice, although that will depend on the next couple of months. What i did say with my list was that people are claiming that Sherwodd is the only person who we could get or that our options were very slim as there's not many available. That's not true. There are dozens of managers out there, and Fox himself has confirmed that there was an "unbelievable" amount of interest in the job. I'm behind Sherwood and if he was the best choice then fair enough. But to say we didn't have any other options or that there was hardly anyone out there just isn't true, imo. IF we go down, and it is an IF as Sherwood could get us the results we need, then it will have been the wrong appointment. Yes Lambert should have gone earlier, but that doesn't change the fact that the right appointment could have saved us. Sorry not aimed at you, or anyone personally. I haven't actually seen too many people saying Sherwood was the only choice, I have seen quite a few saying he wasn't the only choice. My point is that the easiest thing in the world, whoever had been appointed, is for some fans to say why someone else could or should have been....but as none of us can possibly know who was available ( in every sense) or spoken to, or wanted by the club, it is a rather meaningless concept... Very similar to when we buy player x ( Jo Cole for example) and people are on the managers back for not getting player Y......without knowing the managers requirements, the players availability, suitability etc. As when lambo was appointed, exactly the same, we could have had benitez, or ogs, or whoever.....apparently but how do we know ? Fox is hardly going to come out and say " we had to have Sherwood, nobody else was interested" is he ? I recall an awful lot of people saying one of the reasons to stick with Lambert was indeed " who else is there?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Now from the reaction it seems a draw would have been good enough for some people but I'm afraid if we couldnt win against Stoke in those circumstances Im not sure how we can say that we are likely to beat Newcastle Why? We went into the Stoke game with a manager that had worked with the players for 4 days and his coaching staff for half that. I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect that Sherwood and his coaching staff can start to have a bigger impact over the next week. I am not kidding myself though. Whoever came in was inheriting an absolute mess with players totally devoid of confidence and who’d had all the attacking intent and prowess coached out of them by the previous manager. To turn that around quick enough to keep us up is going to take some doing. To turn it around with in a couple of days was verging on the impossible. I still maintain we have a good group of players. Better that at least half a dozen clubs in this division and equal to another handful. I now also believe we have a manager who may be capable of getting the best out of them which is a step in the right direction as the previous one proved that he couldn't. I agree about the manager and 4 days thing. It's not long enough to change the team's system and tactics. What was disappointing for me, was the lack of motivation. What i think could be done in 4 days is to motivate the players. New manager, new start, 13 cup finals that sort of thing. We saw a bit of that in the FA cup match, but I was disappointed that not much of that seemed to come through on Saturday, although the first 25 minutes or so was encouraging. That's the bit that worries me. Yes Sherwood has time to turn it around, but I was really hoping, as we all were, for that "bounce" to kickstart the players. And it really didn't seem to be the case. I think the "bounce" did come, however after we scored it was almost like the players - apart from Sinclair and maybe Gil to a degree (although Gil couldn't really do much against their physicality) - decided to revert back to how we've been playing previously. I think it is no coincidence that Sinclair came out and said we should've kept pushing on after we scored, something he tried to do himself, yet the other players (who have been under Lambert for however long) decided to put the brakes on after one goal. That ideology of scoring one goal and then defending needs to be drilled out of them, but I think it'll take more than 4 days because of how long they've been doing it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It seems a lot of our fans believe we are doomed to relegation. The reasons vary from their favourite manager getting the sack to our new manager not being good enough. I still think we will stay up but we haven't been bad for just a few games we have been awful for over half a season now we all wished Sherwood would wave a magic wand and we'd start playing with loads of confidence but we are still very brittle and that showed on Saturday. If we got through to half time winning I think we'd have won. Even the fans who turned up seemed on edge a little and it was a perfect game for a Stoke side who would have been hurt after their cup defeat. When Sherwood took over Spurs he knew the players so had an idea what to expect here he doesn't have that so I think now he's team is in place after a disjointed week he'll have a better idea of what formation to play. We had about 29000 fans on Saturday yet we will sell out against WBA in the cup. People need to get down to Villa Park for every game they can as the atmosphere on Saturday was flat and we need to help the players by filling the ground and creating some noise. Our home games are key to our survival and personally any one who hasn't been to or intends to go to games for the remainder of the season shouldn't bother coming to the 1/4 final or if we do manage to get to a semi be allowed tickets. This isn't a better fan thing it's more your club needs you get your finger out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Awful lot of myth about new manager bounces ! It happens, but also doesn't happen in a huge number of cases....if it always happened everyone would do it regularly !! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 If we are to have a realistic chance of staying up we need the coaching staff and the manager to get Benteke back to his beast because he's the only fit striker we have who can make a real difference. I fear that, without his goals, we will go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Whether it happens or not I think that new manager bounce was the main reason why the club got rid of Lambert and specifically chose Sherwood to replace him. Edited February 23, 2015 by useless 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think the players, overall, arent very good really. Whether we should or shouldnt have changed managers is a moot point. we have. That its been done so late in the season is criminal whatever side of the fence you were on. The reality of Sherwood & Co having to try and teach our players where the goal is and how to get there begins in ernest. For me if he just sets the team up to play to everones strengths instead of exposing their weaknesses we might have a chance. Its not about a footballing philosophy or prefered formation at this point. Most of us would happily see Weimann given a go as a forward but not a winger and certainly not a left winger ffs..for example. 12 Games. 6 wins. Its not undoable. I think Leicester and QPR will go. We are right in it for that other place as far as Im concerned. I cling on to the hope that It looked bleaker than this for a while in Lamberts first season and he somehow managed to drag us clear. We need a Lowton @Stoke moment, something to give the players and fans hope. I missed the game against stoke due to a funeral and still havent seen any highlights or anything but I have watched his post match interview on the beeb and Im glad he came out and said it was poor. For all the slack I cut Lambert I always criticised his interviews. far too closed. Sherwood has got a tick in a box from me after seeing a bit of honesty. Its refreshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Also on the experience debate at least we have a Manager who is experienced in losing his first match 2-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Trouble Sherwood's got is that he needs to win at least 6 of his remaining 12 league games with a squad that has won 5 of the last 26. I think this is the season that we drop - the team is devoid of confidence and even worse effort its too big a task to expect survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Trouble Sherwood's got is that he needs to win at least 6 of his remaining 12 league games with a squad that has won 5 of the last 26. I think this is the season that we drop - the team is devoid of confidence and even worse effort its too big a task to expect survival. 36 points is a more realistic target to stay up, 40 points is too high. That's 14 points required. Still a tough ask. We basically need to win our next game and hope that gives the players the confidence to go on a run. We are very likely to lose 3 games (Away to Spurs, Man U and Man C) in April so we need to get points in the bag in March otherwise we'll be down before we even get into May. It's just very hard to see this team winning two games in a row. Lambert has done too much damage. Edited February 23, 2015 by villa89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Trouble Sherwood's got is that he needs to win at least 6 of his remaining 12 league games with a squad that has won 5 of the last 26. I think this is the season that we drop - the team is devoid of confidence and even worse effort its too big a task to expect survival. No way. I think 35/36 points will be enough this season. Whether we can even get there I'm not sure but we won't need 40 to stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Even working on us needing 36 points, thats still 14 more needed. We're 3 points adrift now so those closest to us need 11 to get there? Minimum we need is 5 wins for 37 points and I can't pick 5 winning games from the remaining fixtures. We've been dog shit since October and we deserve whats coming unless Sherwood has got something magical planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 Trouble Sherwood's got is that he needs to win at least 6 of his remaining 12 league games I don't think he does. 4 would probably see us safe, assuming there's one or two draws in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Even working on us needing 36 points, thats still 14 more needed. We're 3 points adrift now so those closest to us need 11 to get there? Minimum we need is 5 wins for 37 points and I can't pick 5 winning games from the remaining fixtures. We've been dog shit since October and we deserve whats coming unless Sherwood has got something magical planned. We're not three points adrift - we're level on points with QPR and Burnley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 We aren't adrift yet we are in the bottom 3 on GD and have both the teams level with us to play at home. We just need to get that first win from somewhere. Our home form is key but strangely playing away next weekend may relax the players more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villastine Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Even working on us needing 36 points, thats still 14 more needed. We're 3 points adrift now so those closest to us need 11 to get there? Minimum we need is 5 wins for 37 points and I can't pick 5 winning games from the remaining fixtures. We've been dog shit since October and we deserve whats coming unless Sherwood has got something magical planned. We're adrift on goal difference! The minimum required to stay up is that we gain a point more than Burnley, QPR and Leicester do between now and the end of the season. Harbingers of doom relax! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Posted February 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2015 He's got to pick a team and a formation and , in the main, stick with it. They players have to have the confidence that not much will change in terms of that and he has to have that stability to work with, not changing tactics / multiple players regularly. He has to make sure it supports our best striker and he has to make sure Benteke knows that and can work with it In terms of back 5 I think its pretty clear on that --------------------------Guzan Hutton------Okore--------------Clark ------------Cissohko (I'd stick with him but I think he'll change it either way its pretty stable) It's the front 6 that is debate and personally I'd go -----------Westwood-------------Delph Bacuna-------------------------------------Sinclair <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Gil>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------Benteke 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Even working on us needing 36 points, thats still 14 more needed. We're 3 points adrift now so those closest to us need 11 to get there? Minimum we need is 5 wins for 37 points and I can't pick 5 winning games from the remaining fixtures. We've been dog shit since October and we deserve whats coming unless Sherwood has got something magical planned. We're not three points adrift - we're level on points with QPR and Burnley. No true....but we are 3 points adrift from 16th - so there is a gap. My heart cope with worrying about goal difference to save us especially given our inability to score the **** things. We need this to be clear cut and in our control hence my 6 wins theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 The feeling of almost waiting to be relegated has been awful, however I think we may just be lucky in that three teams are worse than us - QPR, Burnley and Leicester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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