Doping in football

[Zatman]

Ronaldo put on 5kg of muscle in about 3 months when he left Man Utd to Real.

 

Bale has shaped up sharply too, as has Ramos etc.

 

I only read about Ronaldo in one of those nefarious articles you can click on accidently on FB that turns into an advertisement, so it's probably nonsense.

 

stopping hanging out with Anderson was probably a good start for the muscle increase

[villa89]

 

That's definitely all natural, just look at his right leg. No doping to see here...

Edited December 5, 2014 by villa89

[Stevo985]

To be fair, there is about 7 years between those photographs and he's only what, 18? in the Spurs one.

[romavillan]

 

Juventus being continuously doping for years. 

 

If you take a look around and do some research you can find out the that doping was (and probably still is) rife in Italian football for years. Just read matias almeyda's book.

 

Players have been doped up to the eyeballs for years and the governing bodies do nothing about it. FIFA aren't signed up to WADA, they conduct their own tests in Switzerland where any positives can easily be covered up. How many professional footballers are there in the world and how many fail drug tests? Even for recreational drugs? With that many people if testing was done properly people would be failing for taking cold medication, cannabis or cocaine routinely.

 

Former Ireland footballer Richie Sadlier recently said that he was handed 4-5 tablets by the club doctor at Millwall and he took them without ever asking what they were (just like all other players at the club). Then a season or two later he got one less tablet than normal and asked why, the doctor told him that the club had found out the tablet was a substance on the banned list so the club didn't give them out anymore. And that's at Millwall.

 

There are also links to doping doctors by individual players and clubs in Spain. A recent documentary in Germany stated that 99% of Russian athletes are doping. They also exposed Russian winter Olympians for taking Xenon which raises your Red blood cell count and there is no drug test for. So if all the Russian athletes are on drugs why wouldn't the multi million pound football teams have similar schemes?

 

Professional sport = Doping. All of the professional sport you see has doping of some sort whether it's taking legal drugs like caffine, baking soda, blood boosting, Viagra or creatine or taking illegal drugs like EPO, nandrolone, etc. The are always five steps ahead of the testers because they can afford to pay doctors huge money to them the edge".

 

It's suits people to think that the Olympics, Football, Tennis, Rugby are clean (when they clearly aren't) and that it's only things like cycling where the bad dopers like Lance Armstrong exist. What baffles me is why some journalist doesn't start trying to expose doping in sport. The evidence and the whisteblowers are there it's just that nobody goes looking for them. Ignorance is bliss... 

 

 

I'll have a look for that book ta. Yes Cycling has a tendency to get all the bad press, but apparently they just test the most and most stringently, hence the amount of bans etc.

It would be naive to think that the Russians are on the cutting edge too nowadays, East Germany ad the old Soviet block have long gone so yes you would think with the amoutn of money in football the elite "doctors" would be there (and basketball, NFL, baseball etc.). When there are such fine margins between success and failure I spose an athlete will always be looking for an edge, even if it's having only the slightest advantage. The thing is though a lot of them might end up paying for it with their health later in life or worse. 

One of the beautiful things abotu the beautiful game though has always been, and here I'm talkign extremes but still, that someone smaller and more "delicate" like George Best could compete with the players physically stronger than him because he had such good feet and balance. You'd like to think that was still the case but I might just be being romantic I spose.

[The_Rev]

To be fair, there is about 7 years between those photographs and he's only what, 18? in the Spurs one.

He wore the #16 shirt for Spurs in 2007/08 so yes, he'd have been 18 at the oldest in that photo.

[villa4europe]

I don't muscle growth is the place where I'd start looking, taking Hollywood as an example there's a lot of people out there who put muscle on very quickly, I'm sure footballers surrounded by sports scientists and nutritionists could do the same

It's recovery where it'll be, recovery from injuries, recovery from tiredness and on the pitch recovery, blood doping in the traditional sense, targeting myoglobin and the old VO2 max or whatever the bleep test measures

I bet knowledge of substances that aren't banned yet is a big business in sports in general

[RunRickyRun]

A Roma supporting mate has pointed me towards a link (in italian so won't post here) that adds to a conversation we were having about Juventus being continuously doping for years. I normally take the anti-Juve stuff with a pinch of salt, unless I'm with a Juve fan of course, but this link was transcripts of Zidane's statements to a court investigating corruption in football over here. 

 

He basically states that Juve players were given a drip before games, during half time and after matches and before training etc. He said they were routinely given Creatine (which is a muscle growth stimulant and woudl explain del piero's thighs). HE also said a load of other stuff about life at Juve but my point is about the doping.

 

These are pretty fierce allegations really, I'm just wondering if anybody has ever heard of anything similar at the big clubs here? The fashion for huge players and muscle bound players has always made me a bit suspicious....

 

Zidane's mate Johnny Hallyday inadvertently shopped him on live television when he said that Zidane had given him a recommendation for a Swiss blood doping clinic that he regularly visited.

 

Nothing was done of course.

[RunRickyRun]

I'm not sure epo would really help with the type of exertion football requires. Sprinting 50m at a time then stopping suddenly and repeating or sudden bursts and stop start is more to do with muscles in correct places. Blood volume helps more with endurance sports like running or cycling.

 

For recovery times (especially when playing 3 games in a week) it is a massive benefit. There's no risk in Spain as they don't do blood testing which means you can take all the epo you like.

[NoelVilla]

 

I am quite convinced that EPO was and maybe still is used very much in football.

Aren't there big rumours regarding pep guardiola and his use of these?

 

Guardiola was suspended for Nandrolone use during his time in Brescia. It got overturned after an appeal.

 

Dr Doping Eufemiano Fuentes was allegedly used by Barcelona and Real Madrid. Fuentes quotes:

"I worked with Spanish first and second division clubs,"

"I worked with several clubs at the same time, sometimes directly with the footballers themselves, sometimes by sharing my knowledge with the teams doctors.

Fuentes was asked directly which football clubs he had worked with. "I can't tell, I have received death threats," he said.

 

I'm not sure epo would really help with the type of exertion football requires. Sprinting 50m at a time then stopping suddenly and repeating or sudden bursts and stop start is more to do with muscles in correct places. Blood volume helps more with endurance sports like running or cycling.

 

For recovery times (especially when playing 3 games in a week) it is a massive benefit. There's no risk in Spain as they don't do blood testing which means you can take all the epo you like.

 

Of course EPO would have a huge effect on a footballer.

[krisagg75]

i don't think any major country does not have a doping problem.look at how crap our testing has been/is now.

[heffoman]

 

 

I am quite convinced that EPO was and maybe still is used very much in football.

Aren't there big rumours regarding pep guardiola and his use of these?

 

Guardiola was suspended for Nandrolone use during his time in Brescia. It got overturned after an appeal.

 

Dr Doping Eufemiano Fuentes was allegedly used by Barcelona and Real Madrid. Fuentes quotes:

"I worked with Spanish first and second division clubs,"

"I worked with several clubs at the same time, sometimes directly with the footballers themselves, sometimes by sharing my knowledge with the teams doctors.

Fuentes was asked directly which football clubs he had worked with. "I can't tell, I have received death threats," he said.

 

I'm not sure epo would really help with the type of exertion football requires. Sprinting 50m at a time then stopping suddenly and repeating or sudden bursts and stop start is more to do with muscles in correct places. Blood volume helps more with endurance sports like running or cycling.

 

For recovery times (especially when playing 3 games in a week) it is a massive benefit. There's no risk in Spain as they don't do blood testing which means you can take all the epo you like.

 

Of course EPO would have a huge effect on a footballer.

 

I use to run a lot before in the gym usually an hour or two a day but mostly just 10-20km bursts. The few times I tried EPO I would easily knock 10-15 mins off my time. If it can have that effect on a medium fit guy like me on a threadmill I cannot imagine the boost a footballer would get from it during a match.

[romavillan]

 

 

 

I am quite convinced that EPO was and maybe still is used very much in football.

Aren't there big rumours regarding pep guardiola and his use of these?

 

Guardiola was suspended for Nandrolone use during his time in Brescia. It got overturned after an appeal.

 

Dr Doping Eufemiano Fuentes was allegedly used by Barcelona and Real Madrid. Fuentes quotes:

"I worked with Spanish first and second division clubs,"

"I worked with several clubs at the same time, sometimes directly with the footballers themselves, sometimes by sharing my knowledge with the teams doctors.

Fuentes was asked directly which football clubs he had worked with. "I can't tell, I have received death threats," he said.

 

I'm not sure epo would really help with the type of exertion football requires. Sprinting 50m at a time then stopping suddenly and repeating or sudden bursts and stop start is more to do with muscles in correct places. Blood volume helps more with endurance sports like running or cycling.

 

For recovery times (especially when playing 3 games in a week) it is a massive benefit. There's no risk in Spain as they don't do blood testing which means you can take all the epo you like.

 

Of course EPO would have a huge effect on a footballer.

 

I use to run a lot before in the gym usually an hour or two a day but mostly just 10-20km bursts. The few times I tried EPO I would easily knock 10-15 mins off my time. If it can have that effect on a medium fit guy like me on a threadmill I cannot imagine the boost a footballer would get from it during a match.

 

 

Holy shit. 10-15mins is enormous. To be fair probably have a less dramatic effect at someone at peak fitness already, but it's that 1% that these players are looking for. By the time we get to know the names of this stuff it's probably already old hat at the cutting edge (needle's edge).

In terms of recovery, you'd think that's where they are doing transfusions and stuff. In that 50 years of doping link on page one Beckenbauer is quoted talkign about his doctor's special trick of taking his blood through the week and then giving it him back after a game. That's 40 years ago.

It would be nice if they'd just do this stuff more out in the open, so it's a more level playing field and the risks can be discussed sensibly. Same with the Olympics, they should have a parallel dopers games and clean event, I know where the world records would be getting broken every time...  

[darrenm]

The stuff I've read about EPO is that it makes a tiny difference in most circumstances. Comparable to the effect caffeine has.

 

In fact recent testing has shown that the placebo is better than the actual substance.

 

I don't believe 10-15 mins over either 10k or 20k for a second. I know people who definitely don't take anything who can run 1:10 half-marathons (20k). That's national level. Perhaps if you're running a 2:20 HM and shave 10 mins off that taking something I could believe that.

[RunRickyRun]

The stuff I've read about EPO is that it makes a tiny difference in most circumstances. Comparable to the effect caffeine has.

 

In fact recent testing has shown that the placebo is better than the actual substance.

 

I don't believe 10-15 mins over either 10k or 20k for a second. I know people who definitely don't take anything who can run 1:10 half-marathons (20k). That's national level. Perhaps if you're running a 2:20 HM and shave 10 mins off that taking something I could believe that.

 

Mont Ventoux record ascents

	2004: 55m:51s Iban Mayo 23.10 km/h
	2004: 56m:26s Tyler Hamilton 22.86 km/h
	1999: 56m:50s Jonathan Vaughters 22.70 km/h
	2004: 56m:54s Oscar Sevilla 22.67 km/h
	1999: 57m:33s Alexander Vinokourov 22.42 km/h
	1994: 57m:34s Marco Pantani 22.41 km/h
	1999: 57m:34s Wladimir Belli 22.41 km/h
	2004: 57m:39s Juan Miguel Mercado 22.38 km/h
	1999: 57m:42s Joseba Beloki 22.36 km/h
	2004: 57m:49s Lance Armstrong 22.31 km/h
	1999: 57m:52s Lance Armstrong 22.29 km/h
	2004: 58m:14s Inigo Landaluze 22.15 km/h
	1999: 58m:15s Kevin Livingston 22.15 km/h
	1999: 58m:31s David Moncoutie 22.05 km/h
	2004: 58m:35s José Enrique Gutierrez 22.02 km/h
	2009: 58m:45s Andy Schleck 21.96 km/h
	2009: 58m:45s Alberto Contador 21.96 km/h
	2009: 58m:48s Lance Armstrong 21.94 km/h
	2009: 58m:50s Fränk Schleck 21.93 km/h
	1999: 58m:51s Unai Osa 21.92 km/h
	2009: 58m:53s Roman Kreuziger 21.91 km/h
	2002: 59m:00s Lance Armstrong 21.86 km/h
	2013: 59m:00s Chris Froome 21.86 km/h
	1994: 59m:02s Richard Virenque 21.85 km/h
	1994: 59m:02s Armand De Las Cuevas 21.85 km/h

(ignoring the majestic but epo filled Pantani) You have to go to 24th place to get a time outside of the Lance Armstong era when epo was in its early years. Yes its not definitive proof but the times set at the tour during the vector doping era on each climb suggests it has a very significant effect

Edited December 6, 2014 by RunRickyRun

[darrenm]

Yes I'd agree with that. Again, 10-15 minutes for a 10k or 20k is outside the realms of possibility though.

[villaglint]

As an aside, I cannot imagine how boring it must be to run 20km on a treadmill why not go outside if you're running that kind of distance?

[krisagg75]

you can go all the way back to the 1930's and the great wolves team under major buckley.they were supposed to have had injections of monkey glands(yea,right).doping was probably going on then so who knows how long it's been going on.

[villa89]

http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/

[RunRickyRun]

Officially players took on average 1.8 substances each per match at the 2002 World Cup - link. and over half used Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (requiring prescription) at least once during the tournament.

 

While legal (which is why the data could be collected) it's clearly a grey area when it comes to doping in professional sport. Unless footballers are the sickest people on average then some if not most of these exemptions would have not been used to treat illness.

 

It's not proof of widespread doping but it reveals an alarming culture of injury treatment (such as the widespread of injecting drugs to treat pain going against accepted medical practice) and use of supplements at the behest of team doctors and/or coaching staff.

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

That's definitely all natural, just look at his right leg. No doping to see here...

7 years and the best training programme and diet money can buy undertaken by a man who has been an athlete for years already.

It's nowhere near as ridiculous as you think.