MessiWillSignForVilla Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I'm about to win the argument so listen up. After 23 league games this season under Lambert we have 27 points and have won 6 games. After 23 league games under McLeish we had 28 points and had won 6 games. Hands up who at that point in the season under mcleish was enjoying it? Hands up who thought at that point we were having a good season? Hands up who at that point really enjoyed going to villa park? And just to add under McLeish we'd scored 28 goals compared to our current 27. We were 11th and pretty clear of relegation, I thought we were doing OK, like we're doing OK now. I'm probably in a minority though who didn't want McLeish sacked until it really went to shit and we looked absolutely doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 That season we finished with 38 points, this season were currently on course to finish with 45 points. I don't know why we're comparing with McLeish again when the circumstances that the manager was working under were completely different. Under McLeish we didn't show any glimpses of an ability to play decent football. Whereas under Lambert we have on many occasions. Lambert has never once played the same tactics as McLeish, he's always gone out to win a game. Again why are we comparing them? "currently on course to finish with 45 points"! Talk about bullshit stats. How the hell you work that one out???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 That season we finished with 38 points, this season were currently on course to finish with 45 points. I don't know why we're comparing with McLeish again when the circumstances that the manager was working under were completely different. Under McLeish we didn't show any glimpses of an ability to play decent football. Whereas under Lambert we have on many occasions. Lambert has never once played the same tactics as McLeish, he's always gone out to win a game. Again why are we comparing them? "currently on course to finish with 45 points"! Talk about bullshit stats. How the hell you work that one out???? 1.17 (current points per game average) * 38 (games in the season) not very reliable, because if we got 9 points from our next 4 games, we'd "be on course" to finish with 51 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 That season we finished with 38 points, this season were currently on course to finish with 45 points. I don't know why we're comparing with McLeish again when the circumstances that the manager was working under were completely different. Under McLeish we didn't show any glimpses of an ability to play decent football. Whereas under Lambert we have on many occasions. Lambert has never once played the same tactics as McLeish, he's always gone out to win a game. Again why are we comparing them? "currently on course to finish with 45 points"! Talk about bullshit stats. How the hell you work that one out???? We are to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Regardless of what we did under McLeish, we're much more entertaining now, for better or worse! f**king 7 defenders.. My arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted January 30, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2014 Same old story. These threads get ruined by the same people. That's one way to look at it. Another is that it takes differing views to make this thread worth reading (or - dare I say it - entertaining ). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) That season we finished with 38 points, this season were currently on course to finish with 45 points. I don't know why we're comparing with McLeish again when the circumstances that the manager was working under were completely different. Under McLeish we didn't show any glimpses of an ability to play decent football. Whereas under Lambert we have on many occasions. Lambert has never once played the same tactics as McLeish, he's always gone out to win a game. Again why are we comparing them? "currently on course to finish with 45 points"! Talk about bullshit stats. How the hell you work that one out???? You take our current points total and divide it by out games played to work out our points per game (27/23 = 1.17) Then multiply by 38 and you get 44.6, or rounded up, 45 points. That's how he worked it out Although I do agree, it's a bullshit stat (as are all of them apart from actual points and position) Edited January 30, 2014 by MessiWillSignForVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 That season we finished with 38 points, this season were currently on course to finish with 45 points. I don't know why we're comparing with McLeish again when the circumstances that the manager was working under were completely different. Under McLeish we didn't show any glimpses of an ability to play decent football. Whereas under Lambert we have on many occasions. Lambert has never once played the same tactics as McLeish, he's always gone out to win a game. Again why are we comparing them? "currently on course to finish with 45 points"! Talk about bullshit stats. How the hell you work that one out???? I'm using big Johns ppg method. If we continue pikcing up the same points we have done so far. Last time I checked it mattered where you finished at the end of the season not where you are half way through it. So looking at the bigger picture that's what we're on course to finish on. Not saying we will though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I'm about to win the argument so listen up. After 23 league games this season under Lambert we have 27 points and have won 6 games. After 23 league games under McLeish we had 28 points and had won 6 games. Hands up who at that point in the season under mcleish was enjoying it? Hands up who thought at that point we were having a good season? Hands up who at that point really enjoyed going to villa park? And just to add under McLeish we'd scored 28 goals compared to our current 27. We were 11th and pretty clear of relegation, I thought we were doing OK, like we're doing OK now. I'm probably in a minority though who didn't want McLeish sacked until it really went to shit and we looked absolutely doomed. That's fair enough, I think you probably were in the minority though. Didn't realise we were 11th. That backs my point up even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Same old story. These threads get ruined by the same people. That's one way to look at it. Another is that it takes differing views to make this thread worth reading (or - dare I say it - entertaining ). I wouldn't say there are differing views. Rather, the same views repeated day after day. Comparing Lambert with McLeish is complete lunacy and it's incredibly blinkered and short-sighted to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Another who missed the point. I am shocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 That season we finished with 38 points, this season were currently on course to finish with 45 points. I don't know why we're comparing with McLeish again when the circumstances that the manager was working under were completely different. Under McLeish we didn't show any glimpses of an ability to play decent football. Whereas under Lambert we have on many occasions. Lambert has never once played the same tactics as McLeish, he's always gone out to win a game. Again why are we comparing them? "currently on course to finish with 45 points"! Talk about bullshit stats. How the hell you work that one out???? You take our current points total and divide it by out games played to work out our points per game (27/23 = 1.17) Then multiply by 38 and you get 44.6, or rounded up, 45 points. That's how he worked it out Although I do agree, it's a bullshit stat (as are all of them apart from actual points and position) I wasn't sure if he was being serious with not knowing how to work it out didn't want to explain it like in a maths lesson but glad you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 That season we finished with 38 points, this season were currently on course to finish with 45 points. I don't know why we're comparing with McLeish again when the circumstances that the manager was working under were completely different. Under McLeish we didn't show any glimpses of an ability to play decent football. Whereas under Lambert we have on many occasions. Lambert has never once played the same tactics as McLeish, he's always gone out to win a game. Again why are we comparing them? "currently on course to finish with 45 points"! Talk about bullshit stats. How the hell you work that one out???? You take our current points total and divide it by out games played to work out our points per game (27/23 = 1.17) Then multiply by 38 and you get 44.6, or rounded up, 45 points. That's how he worked it out Although I do agree, it's a bullshit stat (as are all of them apart from actual points and position) I wasn't sure if he was being serious with not knowing how to work it out didn't want to explain it like in a maths lesson but glad you did. To be honest, I think it came across a bit dickish, but I just like Maths so couldn't resist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 P23 W6 GF28 Pts27 10th P23 W6 GF29 Pts28 11th One of those it was fine to comment on how unenjoyable the season had been. One of those it isn't. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 P23 W6 GF28 Pts27 10th P23 W6 GF29 Pts28 11th One of those it was fine to comment on how unenjoyable the season had been. One of those it isn't. Why? Because this season has been far more entertaining than McLeish could ever dream about. Regardless of some results which as stated don't go hand in hand with being entertaining. If you're not enjoying this season more than when we had McLeish then I'd find another hobbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted January 30, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2014 P23 W6 GF28 Pts27 10th P23 W6 GF29 Pts28 11th One of those it was fine to comment on how unenjoyable the season had been. One of those it isn't. Why? Perhaps with McLeish we all saw that we were on the downward spiral (at least, I thought so during his spell). Our football was so depressing under him that I actually stopped getting up in the middle of the night to watch. With Lambert it's the opposite. We aren't fantastic by any means - but the feeling that we are on an upward spiral, or that we have turned things around is there (for me, at least). Totally subjective, of course. But, then, enjoyment is subjective. That said, your point about being to discuss the enjoyment of them both is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 My enjoyment levels don't fluctuate game by game. This season has been frustrating and I wouldn't say I've not enjoyed it. Emphatic highs and crushing lows are what make football, football. Everyone wants their football team to win every game, but in all seriousness those setbacks make the highs even better. Take the Baggies game. The feeling when we won would have been nowhere near as incredible if we'd just won 2-0. The lows in that game are what made the victory great. IMO, it's pretty clear to see that how we were playing in the first half of the season was nowhere near our potential, which is why I never got massively angry about it. I felt like we could comfortably switch up a gear and on the evidence of the last 2 1/2 performances, we can do that. BJ, I don't know what you want. You say you want results, then berate those use the league table to back up their point. You say you want performances, but sometimes they don't go hand in hand. This isn't comparing managers, I'm not comparing constraints I'm just simply pointing out that not being thrilled with 27 points and 6 wins after 23 games is somehow a massive controversial view when lambert is the manager. You can't just dismiss the context and look purely at the points totals. Where we are right now is fine, even good because of the context. It's madness to just disregard it. It's like saying Man City have 54 points and are 4th and Fulham have 53 points and are 5th. Without the context, it looks like they're both having a good season but really City are well below where they should be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I love this 'worst start in the premiership' bollocks - as if that actually means anything! It actually means a lot in the context of the post I was replying to. What constitutes a 'start' then. How many games are you basing that stat on and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Bringing McLeish into a discussion is a joke. Under him we actually never went to try to win any game. Even with the atrocious football we have endured for 3 months this season we try to win. You can see what Lambert is trying to do. Teams don't come together over night yet when we have our big players playing we can play some good stuff and hopefully we can add and develop that in the coming windows. I for one am actually looking forward to the run in as it seems Benteke is back and the others are getting back to the levels of the end of last season and especially after last night I think we should just savour it and look forward to the weekend with a bit of optimism for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 He has made one terrific signing in Benteke and three very good signings in Vlaar, Guzan and Bertrand. The rest have been average to poor and that is not the sort of average out of 18 players that you would want including Holt in that. No matter which way you would try and excuse the performances of Tonev, Bennet and Luna they have been rank signings full stop and you can include Bowery in that as well. However I agree that if we can get Hoolahan in now and continue to restructure the midfield in the summer with the right signings this time, then we should see more consistency in performance next season. This keeps getting posted and it is just wrong Lambert has spent £40m on 16 players and at the same time we have shipped out 18 players that cost us £80m - in effect a net spend of minus £40m and given the financial restrictions, we have done some good business Goalkeepers - We have replaced Given and Marshall with Guzan and Steer at zero cost and on probably half the wages Defence - Lowton, Vlaar, Okore, Luna for 11m or Hutton, Collins, Dunne, Warnock for 20m - no contest for me and at less than half the wages Midfield - Makoun, Ireland, Bannon, Holman at 14m or Westwood, Bacuna, KEA, Sylla at half that and half the wages - no contest Forwards - Benteke 7m or Bent 24m? Heskey or Kozak? Even though not setting the world on fire, Bennett for Stevens and Helenius for Fonz are still improvements. Bowery might not make it but cost peanuts. Only Tonev has been a failure so far. Some panned Lambert for sigining Holt but that's not looking a bad bit of business and hopefully we can make the Bertrand signing permenent in the summer. In the next few windows, I'm sure we will work to up the quality of the first XI, buying two or three quality players each season and integrating academy prospects as they become ready, whilst moving on those that don't make it To get to 10th whilst slashing the wage bill so dramatically demostrates Lamberts ability and I expect better to come so long as he has decent backing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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