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Mic09
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Do you think it is possible for teams like  Newcastle, Southampton or even Norwich or Sunderland to EVER win the league these days?

Obviously not long ago when money wasn't as big, we had variuos teams going in the top 4 (Leeds, Blackburn etc) who struggle today, and it is unlikely that they will come anywhere near their previous success any time soon. And im afraid this list must also include our beloved Villa.

With the FPP being a joke, is it possible for any teams who do not have a multi millionaire owner to succed? Obviously we have Liverpool, but Liverpool are a brand; they can afford giving 200k to their players and make LOTS of money on merch all around the world. Although they were poorer in recent years, it seems they are back at it.

Will we, or any mid table team ever win the league again?

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These days? It's been like this for more than 20 years. I think you have to go back to Leeds United in 1992 for an example of the last time a club without a title chasing budget won the league.

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These days? It's been like this for more than 20 years. I think you have to go back to Leeds United in 1992 for an example of the last time a club without a title chasing budget won the league.

 

when was the last time one even challenged for the league maybe Newcastle under Robson. they didn't challenge but Everton 2004/05 is last to crack Champions League

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These days? It's been like this for more than 20 years. I think you have to go back to Leeds United in 1992 for an example of the last time a club without a title chasing budget won the league.

 

Yeah these days and yes I was talking in the context of the PL era. Football wasn't invented in 92 so I was talking in the wider history of the game which I assume was the point of the question.

 

Although the situation has clearly got worse over the last 20 years because Arsenal you could argue weren't the biggest spenders when they won some of their titles under Wenger, they did it a different way to United, Chelsea and Man City. But they can't compete any more and haven't done for a long time since Chelsea's spending power emerged.

 

So even in the context of the PL, these days its worse than it was. 

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Aye it's near on impossible these days. What is a shame now is in the 80s you had newly promoted teams like West Ham and Watford finishing 2nd in the league and even when I was growing up the likes of Ipswich and Charlton were finishing in the top 6, it's such a closed shop even for the top 7 now.

 

That said it can be done...look at Atletico Madrid. They've hardly spent a huge amount and indeed since 2007 they've sold Forlan, Torres, Aguero and Falcao yet they found an inspirational manager and are leading an apparently two team league with 7 games left.

 

I think the crux is english clubs just below the elite tier aren't very good at replacing key players when they leave so drop a level quickly, look at us and Spurs.

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The problem is clubs don't get the opportunity to build decent squads capable of challenging at the top anymore, you sign a few decent talents, nurture them into better players and then the big boys knock on the door and take them off you. Unless there is ever a spending cap in place that's the same for all clubs and a wage cap that is also the same, there's no way you can compete at the top, but that will never happen. Clubs like us just make the numbers up now

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The problem is clubs don't get the opportunity to build decent squads capable of challenging at the top anymore, you sign a few decent talents, nurture them into better players and then the big boys knock on the door and take them off you. Unless there is ever a spending cap in place that's the same for all clubs and a wage cap that is also the same, there's no way you can compete at the top, but that will never happen. Clubs like us just make the numbers up now

 

That is very true but if your scouting is good enough it's not impossible to stay competitive at the top rather than just fall off the cliff like we did.

 

I metioned Atletico Madrid as a great example of this, just look at the forwards they've sold in the last 6 years. From the prem I'd say Wenger has done well considering who Arsenal have sold to continually keep them in the top 4 the last 10 years.

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What? And spoil UEFA's dreams of a super league of the biggest, richest clubs in Europe......hmm.

 

Dreams? We already have a two tier European super league with promotion and relegation between them only its been done in stages and on the quiet and called different things but that is what it is.

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Thanks to Financial 'Fair' Play, it's not possible for most teams to win the league even with Bill Gates as owner.

 

yep, thats the thing that a few people still dont seem to see, even if randy wanted to put every penny he has in to the club he cant unless he does some underhanded business and sponsors us for more than we are realistically worth

 

problem this year is liverpool are doing the mid table to the top thing that everyone says can no longer be done, and yet again the prem is being labelled its most exciting for years so in reality the vast majority of arm chair fans and unfortunately the media wont bat an eyelid, real shame some of the better journos dont even try to do articles on what FFP really is

 

the sad truth is that the % chance of an arab prince buying us is higher than the % chance of us getting a £2m a year official japanese paint partner like utd have, too many argue that good business sense will see us compete, no it wont, horse has bolted

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problem this year is liverpool are doing the mid table to the top thing that everyone says can no longer be done, and yet again the prem is being labelled its most exciting for years so in reality the vast majority of arm chair fans and unfortunately the media wont bat an eyelid, real shame some of the better journos dont even try to do articles on what FFP really is

 

and what annoys me is that their big money moves are ignored, since 2010/2011 this is who Liverpool have signed on big wages and transfer fees

 

Jovanovic 80k a week

Cole 90k a week

Meireiles 12 million

Suarez 23 million

Downing 20 million

Henderson 16 million

Borini 10 million

Allen 15 million

Sturridge 12 million

Mignolet 9 million

Sakho 15 million

Coutinho 9 million

Carroll 35 million

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Aye it's near on impossible these days. What is a shame now is in the 80s you had newly promoted teams like West Ham and Watford finishing 2nd in the league and even when I was growing up the likes of Ipswich and Charlton were finishing in the top 6, it's such a closed shop even for the top 7 now.

 

That said it can be done...look at Atletico Madrid. They've hardly spent a huge amount and indeed since 2007 they've sold Forlan, Torres, Aguero and Falcao yet they found an inspirational manager and are leading an apparently two team league with 7 games left.

 

I think the crux is english clubs just below the elite tier aren't very good at replacing key players when they leave so drop a level quickly, look at us and Spurs.

 

Yep, will never happen again. When we finished second, Norwich were third and Blackburn fourth (i think). You'll never see a situation like that again.

 

Going back to the 80's, Forest winning the league. Us winning the league and Ipswich challenging. Done purely on shrewd signings, great management and a little bit of luck. 

 

Good days never to be repeated unless the arse falls out the game and Sky / BT go bust and everyone has to start again! 

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Its crazy how teams back in the day could come up from the second division and compete for the title. Look at forest in the late 70s. I think when they won the league they had only come up from the 2nd division 2 years before. Then they go on to win back to back european cups. All I'm going to say regarding clubs like villa is that if man city can go on to be taken over and win the league etc then its possible it could happen to us.

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FFP is quite frightening in the context of SuttonPaul's excellent summary on a differing thread. I had always thought that it was going to be to prevent people who don't have the money in their hands already from spending too much e.g Leeds and Portsmouth.

 

Now, we have a 'rich' owner (I thought we were the new Chelsea when Lerner first came in as I am sure many others did too with what was 'promised') who is not allowed to spend the money it seems. Even if you have the money, clubs like us just can't spend it. That's what stinks, or appears to stink.

 

It won't be long before blind loyality tails off and the fans of 'under' clubs like ours realise that their clubs can't actually compete, they make up the numbers, and are merely buying season tickets to ensure they have a seat to watch Yanited, Arsenal, Citeh, Chelski and a recently invigorated Plop.

 

The late 20th Century spawned a plethora of chances for Villa to catch the boat... Sadly, they missed it and we're stuck on a pedalo with a mute tiger and an orangutan.

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Yes we did miss the step. On numerous times in the 90s and also in recent years. A lot of that is down to the club. Can't remember who quoted that villa are a big club but are to frightened to take the next step to becoming a huge club. Now it looks like were going to be a nothing club for a while now. For how rich lerner is he can't compete with the abramovich's of this world. Football has been dying for a while and its only going to get worse, its so sad and depressing. Man city have always been a working class club but look at them now, their fanbase are turning into day trippers and snobs. Say what you like but I'm pretty sure fans in the lower leagues are having more fun that a lot of premier league supporters. Sick to the back teeth of the league to be honest. Overpriced, games getting moved all the time and the media wankfest of the top 6 clubs. Great clubs like leeds,sheff weds,wolves forest etc have no chance of becoming great again. We are lucky in a sense that maybe one day some mega rich owner will look at our club and then we will become one of those clubs we moan about now.

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All I'm going to say regarding clubs like villa is that if man city can go on to be taken over and win the league etc then its possible it could happen to us.

 

No it isn't, FFP has pulled the draw bridge up and closed the shop.

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