Avflife Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 We might be seeing a switch from plan A to plan B. When Lambert got the job I would think the club imposed some parameters like, bring the wage bill down to 60% of turnover, don't sign players over 26 with no resale value, promote from the academy where you can etc. etc. All very sensible if you ask me given the situation when PL took over. The results are what has caused people to gripe last season, so PL has tightened up and become more effective at the cost of good football. Now the style is the problem for a lot of people on here, even though you only have to look at the table this year and compare it to last year to see it's yielded more points. All this criticism won't have fallen on deaf ears, and at the time PL took the job there was probabaly a plan B sketched out. So that if we find ourselves in a situation where the squad isn't coming along as we'd have hoped using the rules in plan A then funds would be released for some more short term aqcuisitions in order to help the young players for a year or two. It's not a U-turn, it's not an admission of failure, it is an attempt to insure that the overall goals of plan A; wages 60% of turnover, a young squad, a good percentage of which came through the academy, which means we will be making money and not losing it by selling players in the future. Making money from transfer activity, more TV revenue, wages under control etc. were all the short term goals I would think. Once we have that acheived and the deadwood that have still not been shifted are gone, then we're in a very good position to invest in the playing staff at a different level than the massive changes PL had to bring about on a low budget in order to reach the clubs goals as soon as possible. Personally I think, when you look at it like that, then PL has done some very good work for us so far. By no means will the squad be his dream team or anything like it until after the club and himself feels the initial short term goals to turn this club around have been acheived. Then he can start to build something to close the gap of a "million miles" (his words) from where we are to where we should be. How many of the academy has PL promoted to the first team though?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 How many of the academy has PL promoted to the first team though?? Not yet. Imagine if Lambert starting playing younger kids, jeez! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I'm not being stubborn at all. I just don't have an obtuse opinion which excuses Lambert's record with us due to continually looking through claret & blue spectacles that ignores the overall. 12 wins in 49 games with the lowest goals scored in all four divisions producing only two home wins this season and a relegation battle last season. Trying to dress that up with goal difference just doesn't work does it and it's a record that no fan or manager should try and defend. Mcleish was sacked due to fan pressure? That statement is just as ridiculous as saying that Lambert's remit wasn't to make the squad better and i'll be succinct again in explaining that. The chairman employed Mcleish despite knowing how the fan base would react. Secondly, if under Mcleish our results and performances had been better do you honestly think both the fan base and the chairman would have wanted to sack him? Thirdly, you also must remember that under Mcleish we had a decent start and at that time there were very few fans calling for his head. It was after that decent start that performances and results deteriorated and ultimately it was results and performances that got Mcleish sacked and not peer pressure! 'Short term to provide a stable future.' 'Lambert did that in his first season.' I mean really??? You must have a very short memory. Worst ever start to a Premiership season. Worst goals conceded record in over twenty years. Worst defeat in the history of the club. Second lowest points total in Premiership history. Over three games conceded 15 goals with no reply and lost over two legs to Bradford. Secured our Premiership status with only one game to go. And then you have the audacity to state 'the negativity within our fan base has long been a problem.' In my opinion, you're being far too 'black and white' here. I'm not saying that Lambert has done a brilliant job or that results have been good enough; but what I am saying is Lambert appears to be addressing each issue season on season (although I'll happily await further judgement on what happens in the transfer window this month). When you have to make sweeping wholesale changes on a tight budget, I don't expect a manager/team to excel straight away. I have no short memory of last season at all, it was terrible. But then what did you honestly expect having brought together an entirely new squad? Again, as I asked you earlier in this thread (which you have neglected to answer) a) where do you think the team should be in the league? and b ) what is Lambert's major failing, so much so that he deserves to be sacked? r.e: McLeish - this pretty much sums up the negativity of our fan base to be honest. You're completely wrong in saying he had "very few fans calling for his head" - this happened before a ball had even been kicked. We didn't get behind the manager from the off and were far too ready to jump on his back as soon as results started falling away. Personally, I'm a fan of Aston Villa - not an anti-fan of any manager that joins the club. Can I be disappointed in appointments? Sure, but I'll still support them. The situation was comparable to Chelsea with Benitez. He was never going to last in that role because fans were on his back from the off. He delivered a trophy and a top 3 finish only to be sacked (the "interim" crap was amazing though). McLeish obviously didn't have this kind of success behind him, but I doubt he could've done much to have sustained his job - the results would've needed to be amazing. This isn't to say that McLeish was the right manager (he wasn't) and I'm not saying that Lambert is either - but what he needs is time to do the job. I look at Newcastle's relegation and complete squad overhaul and the world of good that this has, ultimately, done them. Yet fans were calling for Pardew's head both last season and the start of this one. Sometimes a step backwards is worth it in the long run. If Lambert gets us relegated or fails to deliver any sort of improvement next season then, fine, he's gone and I'll acknowledge that you were right in your doomed assessment of our club. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Far from calling for Lambert's head, personally I'm just hoping he stays with us instead of quitting in frustration at the pennies being chucked his way for transfer dealings. We need new ownership way, way more than we need a new manager. When the ownership changes, let's see what PL can do with some funds before we decide he needs to go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Far from calling for Lambert's head, personally I'm just hoping he stays with us instead of quitting in frustration at the pennies being chucked his way for transfer dealings. We need new ownership way, way more than we need a new manager. When the ownership changes, let's see what PL can do with some funds before we decide he needs to go. Should the ownership change im pretty sure they'd wan't to bring in their own manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Again you've ignored your original point which was that Lambert made us stable in his first season with us and that's what I have contested in my post. Quite clearly he didn't and I provided the facts to prove that so no black and white argument at all. Secondly I haven't neglected to answer your questions. In my reply to BOF I have clearly stipulated my opinion and I would suggest you read my reply to his post. There was no need to answer the same question twice! On Mcleish and the reasons why he was sacked I believe I have explained and substantiated my point so again there is no need for me to stipulate it again. Finally I don't have a doomed assessment of our club. I have however right from the start of Lambert's tenure voiced my concerns that he would make us into another Norwich. A team full of gusto and spirit but lacking in any real quality. I feel that original opinion to date has been vindicated. I also voiced my concerns that Lambert's transfer policy was imbalanced. Too much inexperience and that opinion again has been vindicated with Lambert now targeting more experienced players due to our overall performance and results. Consequently I do not think all is lost with Lambert at the helm. He has made major mistakes in transfer policy and indeed in tactics. However by now targeting more experienced players such as Hoolahan who I did mention last season, I do feel with a few more experienced heads in the team we will be safe this season and our results and football will eventually improve. If we do sign more experienced quality this month, our football improves and we do finish mid table as a consequence then that will constitute an improvement for me and I will be more than happy for Lambert to continue. Edited January 9, 2014 by Morpheus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormandyVillan Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Finally I don't have a doomed assessment of our club. I have however right from the start of Lambert's tenure voiced my concerns that he would make us into another Norwich. A team full of gusto and spirit but lacking in any real quality. I feel that original opinion to date has been vilified. Don't you mean vindicated rather than vilified? Actually I would say that Lambert has disappointed me by not even turning us into another Norwich. I thought Norwich under Lambert played decent football even though some of the players were a bit lacking in quality. They were certainly better to watch in their first season after promotion than Villa have been (mostly) since he took over. My hope was that he would bring to Villa the same ability (as I saw it) to get the most out of players, with maybe some additional investment in players to take us to a higher level than what we saw with him at Norwich. So far we seem to be struggling to even reach that level. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsworthlion Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I think the main reason paul should go, is for rubber stamping the deal for alexander tonev. What an embarrassment of a 'footballer' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I think the main reason paul should go, is for rubber stamping the deal for alexander tonev. What an embarrassment of a 'footballer' He cost very little, and many of us were keen to see some atomic strikes from midfield. It hasn't worked out so far, but do you really think that, given a bigger transfer budget, Lambert would have said "no, thanks, Tonev is all we need"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I think Lambert signed Tonev to stop all the moaners from moaning (myself included) The idea was that if he Lambo heard anyone moaning in the Holte End Upper he would instruct Tonev to shoot straight at them to shut them up. Seems to have been quite a success 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwan Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Basically sums up what I feel http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10263071/midseason-premier-league-report-card Goodman: Aston Villa are a strange case. There's a lot not to like about this season. Christian Benteke, after a phenomenal breakout year, has fallen off the face of the earth, negatively affecting both Villa's offensive output and their potential profit from selling him. Manager Paul Lambert still doesn't seem to have a plan of attack that amounts to more than extremely basic counters, and for the second year in a row, their defensive line has been decimated by injuries, which is particularly brutal for a team that has no attacking plan outside of counters! Weirdly, they are sitting more or less comfortably in 11th place. That's progress, I suppose (they were almost relegated last season). But are they building toward anything? Ryan: A club with a rich history, a stadium that seats more than 40,000, some nice young pieces, and a once highly regarded manager with European pedigree. Aston Villa should be Southampton with more fans and more financial muscle. Instead, with the managerial turnover, uninspired performances on the field, and white-flag waving (Paul Lambert may have been right about the distraction and drain the FA Cup could cause, but that doesn't make it any more inspirational to hear him say it), Villa more and more resemble the other professional sports franchise Randy Lerner was involved with: the Cleveland Browns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Ridiculous to call it "white-flag waving". Complete overreaction. Seems like another person taken in by the media hype and sensationalism. Edited January 9, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted January 9, 2014 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 9, 2014 Personally I don't think it was ridiculous to call it that. He said what he said and if anything the effort from the admittedly-strong team he picked showed that they knew they weren't going to get the hairdryer if they lost. He gave his team an out with what he said before the game and they took it with both hands. All IMHO. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I don't think it's fair to assume that they weren't going to get scolded for losing. It's not like an inept home defeat has been anything unusual or uncommon over the past couple of years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Lazy comparison to the Browns, too! That's unless he means that we were awesome when we were first founded but, despite a few sprinkles of success here and there, have been pretty shit since Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted January 9, 2014 I don't think it's fair to assume that they weren't going to get scolded for losing. It's not like an inept home defeat has been anything unusual or uncommon over the past couple of years.And I think you underestimate the comments of a manager on his players. Otherwise we could all do it. I think it's very fair to make the assumption and it played out in front of our eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I don't think it's fair to assume that they weren't going to get scolded for losing. It's not like an inept home defeat has been anything unusual or uncommon over the past couple of years.And I think you underestimate the comments of a manager on his players. Otherwise we could all do it. I think it's very fair to make the assumption and it played out in front of our eyes. I agree. Though having not seen the game I am lead to believe we had more than enough chances to put it away and it should not be assumed the players had such a thing running through their mind when those chances came. I'm also of the belief that you need an ego to make it in the game. I'd be surprised if said players were not "up for it", even if "up for it" means not being embarrassed by a lower league side. Edited January 9, 2014 by dont_do_it_doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I don't think it's fair to assume that they weren't going to get scolded for losing. It's not like an inept home defeat has been anything unusual or uncommon over the past couple of years. And I think you underestimate the comments of a manager on his players. Otherwise we could all do it. I think it's very fair to make the assumption and it played out in front of our eyes. We have no way of knowing though. I seriously doubt Lambert told the players to not worry about the result and I don't have a hard time believing that he was pretty pissed off after we lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 looking at Moyes who I rate highly, i do have some sympathy for him....him not utd, so don't confuse the two. back to us .....is there a danger, that this job/task of ours was much bigger than most of us imagined. ....just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted January 9, 2014 I seriously doubt Lambert told the players to not worry about the resultYou actually don't get what I'm saying. That's OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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