Why Paul Lambert should get the sack

[Raver50032]

Welcome to the forum Bobzy.

 

<what BOF said>

Edited January 7, 2014 by Raver50032

[bobzy]

Good opening posts Bobzy. Welcome to the site. You'll never keep up that standard

 

Cheers BOF.  As you can possibly tell, I'm a bit of a realist - so I'm fully expecting my posts to reflect our season so far.

 

Consider those 2 my posting version of Arsenal 1-3 Villa.  Bet you can't wait for the equivalent of Villa 1-2 Sheffield United... 

[BOF]

FWIW our outlooks are very similar. Although I'd regard myself as an optimist. I find that everyone likes to call themselves a 'realist' because they think their opinion is the valid realistic one

[PauloBarnesi]

I agree that Lambert is stubborn but how is he more stubborn than O'Neill?

 

Its just one of those things that people throw into the conversation, without any proof, bar a feeling when they get up in the morning.

 

MON is the devil. If anyone is worse than him then they must be really bad and deserving of the sack. 

[Morpheus]

The problem is that even though he has identified where the problems are he has yet to find the solution. This season not one part of the team is stronger than before Lambert became manager and therein lies the main problem.

Bent did work out with his goals saving us from relegation.

Again, though, you're not looking at the bigger picture.

Lambert's remit has obviously never been to install a first 11 that was better than it already was - it was to reduce the playing staff costs whilst maintaining a squad. In that respect, he really hasn't done too badly. Having said this, though, I'd rather have Benteke and Kozak as our strike force than Bent and Heskey, I'd rather have Guzan as first choice goalkeeper than Given and I'd rather have Vlaar and Okore/Baker/Clark than Collins and Dunne (especially now). The only part of our team that is now definitely weaker than before Lambert became manager is midfield - and how much of that has been down to Petrov's illness? That kind of experienced head in the centre of the park would work wonders right now, especially alongside Westwood who is tidy yet unspectacular and Delph who has improved in abounds but is still a naive player.

Now, in terms of looking for a solution, you'll not always get exactly what you thought you were getting. This isn't really down to the fault of anyone - on YouTube footage (lol) alone, I was quite excited by the prospect of Tonev and, from a scouting point of view, he'd have looked like a good gamble from Bulgaria. That's all it ever is though; a gamble. Sometimes the gambles work (Benteke) sometimes they don't (Soldado), but ultimately our approach is less risky which is only a good thing for the football club itself coming from where we've been financially. It will never please the fans because we want instant success on the pitch (whether success is trophy-based or attractive football-based) but fans, ultimately, are passion led and, thus, completely open to swinging bias.

At the start of the season, we beat Arsenal 3-1 away from home. Our season was looking rosy, we followed it up with good performances on the whole against Chelsea, Liverpool and half a game against Newcastle (up until Benteke got injured against Norwich really) and Arsenal fans wanted Wenger sacked. How things have changed, eh? Fans will always want things instantaneously but, the reality is, it's rarely if ever that good.

That's an interesting observation (excuse) that Lambert's remit wasn't to make the squad better or that it's not Lambert's fault for his duff signings. You are going to fit right in here with certain posters who have equally made such ridiculous statements to try and defend Lambert's record with us.

I could get into stats concerning last season and this relative to goals scored and conceded concerning whether the squad is better or not but the most overriding factor is results which have been so poor that they have reached parity with the reign of McLeish.

Would you care to reflect on how many games we have actually won with Lambert at the helm which is the 'bigger picture debate?'

Edited January 7, 2014 by Morpheus

[foreveryoung]

Listening to talkshite today and Andy Gray. He admitted although careful to admit. We started to show good form towards the end of last season and begining this season, then for some reason Lambert decided to change his tactics and from then on nothing seems to be working and the players have no idea what they are supposed to be doing. 

For me, watching some of the games towards the end of last season things seemed to be starting to click, we really looked quality some great link up play and even without Benteke everyone seemed to know what they were doing. Why lambert has lost or changed all this I have no idea.

Please whoever still supports Lambert fair play, but can you explain this to me.

you're correct...

 

It all seemed to be getting towards a shape and pattern we could all recognise with confidence growing and then bang, he completely changed tack. It's the only reason I still hold any hope for him. But as to what happened? Only PL knows.

 

Persisting with a central 3 defenders is criminal for mine.

 

It simply does not work, as it ends up being 5 across the back, which gives us precious little to aim at when trying to get forward. At the time we got hammered last Christmas, this was the formation we were playing.

 

Now I can excuse him trying it last year, but after ditching it last year and seeing us go on a great run I cannot defend him reverting to it again.

 

Playing a formation that works and that the players obviously understand helps breed confidence. This is vitally important when your team is "young and hungry" and generally lacking experience.

Glad someone at least agrees with this, most of the Lambert supporters still have no answer for it. Its no good blaming the budget and Lerner when as far as I can see we had a good team developing, its just Lambert seem to have changed the style and play personally.

[bobzy]

 

That's an interesting observation (excuse) that Lambert's remit wasn't to make the squad better. You are going to fit right in here with certain posters who have equally made such ridiculous statements to try and defend Lambert's record with us.

I could get into stats concerning last season and this relative to goals scored and conceded concerning whether the squad is better or not but the most overriding factor is results which have been so poor that they have reached parity with the reign of McLeish.

Would you care to reflect on how many games we have actually won with Lambert at the helm which is the 'bigger picture debate?'

 

 

I think it just quite clearly wasn't to make the squad better - that was always going to be an "if possible" situation.  How can you see this as a ridiculous statement?  I'm not defending Lambert's record with us; the results on paper have been poor in the whole.  However, I expected them to be poor as we're in such a transitional stage.  The worrying thing is that our good results have come against teams that we're unlikely to repeat them against... although perhaps the same could be said for those teams we've lost against?

 

I'm honestly not concerned with the tedium of how many games we've won or lost or drawn or should've won or whatever.  The main thing this season is for Aston Villa to survive in the Premier League.  I don't really care if this is via the scrappiest of most scrappy last games of the season where we scrape a 1-1 draw against Spurs and survive.

 

I've always maintained (and will likely continue to do so) that goal difference is the greatest indicator of how poor a team truly is.  Last season, we had the 5th worst goal difference and just about survived whilst the 3 teams that went down had the worst 3 goal differences in the league.  This season, we've seen a marked improvement in our defensive performances and are currently sat on a -6 goal difference.  I'm firmly of the belief that if Benteke and Vlaar weren't injured for periods, we'd not be posting in a "Lambert should be sacked thread".  Lambert's fault for a lack of squad depth?  Maybe so, but see my previous posts r.e: budget and realistic goals.

 

There are obvious weaknesses in the team but, season on season, I think we're addressing these points.  2 seasons ago, our main problem was scoring goals so we signed Benteke and scored goals.  Last season, our main problem was atrocious defending, so we signed a defender (Okore, unlucky) and have obviously been working on tightening things up.  This season, our main problem has been ball retention and a lack of creativity.  I think we know where Lambert will be looking next in the market...

 

If you can't see/don't want to acknowledge these small (and they are small!) steps in the right direction and, instead, wish to bemoan the team for unattractive football and a run of poor results then fair enough - that's your prerogative.  For me, I'd rather not boo the team and will continue to assess the work being done at the club on a wider scale.  It's my opinion that Lambert recognises where we are weakest (then again, it's not hard), knows what we need to do to improve (again, not hard) and will continue to address these issues as he did last season and going into this one.

 

As per my initial post, I'll personally be judging his time at the end of next season.  Right now we're in the teething stage; after 3 seasons in charge, there should be a notable improvement.

[AshVilla]

 

 

 

Listening to talkshite today and Andy Gray. He admitted although careful to admit. We started to show good form towards the end of last season and begining this season, then for some reason Lambert decided to change his tactics and from then on nothing seems to be working and the players have no idea what they are supposed to be doing. 

For me, watching some of the games towards the end of last season things seemed to be starting to click, we really looked quality some great link up play and even without Benteke everyone seemed to know what they were doing. Why lambert has lost or changed all this I have no idea.

Please whoever still supports Lambert fair play, but can you explain this to me.

you're correct...

 

It all seemed to be getting towards a shape and pattern we could all recognise with confidence growing and then bang, he completely changed tack. It's the only reason I still hold any hope for him. But as to what happened? Only PL knows.

 

Persisting with a central 3 defenders is criminal for mine.

 

It simply does not work, as it ends up being 5 across the back, which gives us precious little to aim at when trying to get forward. At the time we got hammered last Christmas, this was the formation we were playing.

 

Now I can excuse him trying it last year, but after ditching it last year and seeing us go on a great run I cannot defend him reverting to it again.

 

Playing a formation that works and that the players obviously understand helps breed confidence. This is vitally important when your team is "young and hungry" and generally lacking experience.

Glad someone at least agrees with this, most of the Lambert supporters still have no answer for it. Its no good blaming the budget and Lerner when as far as I can see we had a good team developing, its just Lambert seem to have changed the style and play personally.

 

 

Lambert is the manager and what goes on at the training ground is to blame he decides what formations to play what substitutions to make and what team to play

 

How many times have we been left scratching our heads when he has bought on the likes of Bowery this season or failed to drop a player who has been complete and utter shite

 

The stats do not lie we play some of the worst football in the premier league similar to what McLeish did yet somehow to some it is all Lerner's fault and Lambert is exonerated of all blame

Edited January 7, 2014 by AshVilla

[Tomaszk]

Scenario:

 

We stay up, finish 14th, performances up and down for the rest of the season.

 

United finish 5th and Moyes gets the boot.

 

Would people like to get Moyes over Lambert?

[romavillan]

 

 

The problem is that even though he has identified where the problems are he has yet to find the solution. This season not one part of the team is stronger than before Lambert became manager and therein lies the main problem.

Bent did work out with his goals saving us from relegation.

Again, though, you're not looking at the bigger picture.

Lambert's remit has obviously never been to install a first 11 that was better than it already was - it was to reduce the playing staff costs whilst maintaining a squad. In that respect, he really hasn't done too badly. Having said this, though, I'd rather have Benteke and Kozak as our strike force than Bent and Heskey, I'd rather have Guzan as first choice goalkeeper than Given and I'd rather have Vlaar and Okore/Baker/Clark than Collins and Dunne (especially now). The only part of our team that is now definitely weaker than before Lambert became manager is midfield - and how much of that has been down to Petrov's illness? That kind of experienced head in the centre of the park would work wonders right now, especially alongside Westwood who is tidy yet unspectacular and Delph who has improved in abounds but is still a naive player.

Now, in terms of looking for a solution, you'll not always get exactly what you thought you were getting. This isn't really down to the fault of anyone - on YouTube footage (lol) alone, I was quite excited by the prospect of Tonev and, from a scouting point of view, he'd have looked like a good gamble from Bulgaria. That's all it ever is though; a gamble. Sometimes the gambles work (Benteke) sometimes they don't (Soldado), but ultimately our approach is less risky which is only a good thing for the football club itself coming from where we've been financially. It will never please the fans because we want instant success on the pitch (whether success is trophy-based or attractive football-based) but fans, ultimately, are passion led and, thus, completely open to swinging bias.

At the start of the season, we beat Arsenal 3-1 away from home. Our season was looking rosy, we followed it up with good performances on the whole against Chelsea, Liverpool and half a game against Newcastle (up until Benteke got injured against Norwich really) and Arsenal fans wanted Wenger sacked. How things have changed, eh? Fans will always want things instantaneously but, the reality is, it's rarely if ever that good.

That's an interesting observation (excuse) that Lambert's remit wasn't to make the squad better or that it's not Lambert's fault for his duff signings. You are going to fit right in here with certain posters who have equally made such ridiculous statements to try and defend Lambert's record with us.

I could get into stats concerning last season and this relative to goals scored and conceded concerning whether the squad is better or not but the most overriding factor is results which have been so poor that they have reached parity with the reign of McLeish.

Would you care to reflect on how many games we have actually won with Lambert at the helm which is the 'bigger picture debate?'

 

Welcome bobzy! 

 

You'll get used to polemic rhetorical questions which inexplicably get used as "proof" that Lambert needs to go.

In reply, McLeish's stats went from ok start, to bad, to worse, to horrible. Lambert given time will continue to improve, and that for me is fundamentally why we should stick with him.

[mikeyp102]

Scenario:

We stay up, finish 14th, performances up and down for the rest of the season.

United finish 5th and Moyes gets the boot.

Would people like to get Moyes over Lambert?

Not that lambert would get sacked for that position. But if he did and moyes was available then absolutely we should go for him

[BOF]

Scenario:

 

We stay up, finish 14th, performances up and down for the rest of the season.

 

United finish 5th and Moyes gets the boot.

 

Would people like to get Moyes over Lambert?

No.

[Tomaszk]

Not saying he'd get sacked. Should Randy take action and go for a reliable PL manager who will get snapped up quickly?

 

I also say no.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Tomaszk

[foreveryoung]

That's an interesting observation (excuse) that Lambert's remit wasn't to make the squad better. You are going to fit right in here with certain posters who have equally made such ridiculous statements to try and defend Lambert's record with us.

I could get into stats concerning last season and this relative to goals scored and conceded concerning whether the squad is better or not but the most overriding factor is results which have been so poor that they have reached parity with the reign of McLeish.

Would you care to reflect on how many games we have actually won with Lambert at the helm which is the 'bigger picture debate?'

 

I think it just quite clearly wasn't to make the squad better - that was always going to be an "if possible" situation.  How can you see this as a ridiculous statement?  I'm not defending Lambert's record with us; the results on paper have been poor in the whole.  However, I expected them to be poor as we're in such a transitional stage.  The worrying thing is that our good results have come against teams that we're unlikely to repeat them against... although perhaps the same could be said for those teams we've lost against?

 

I'm honestly not concerned with the tedium of how many games we've won or lost or drawn or should've won or whatever.  The main thing this season is for Aston Villa to survive in the Premier League.  I don't really care if this is via the scrappiest of most scrappy last games of the season where we scrape a 1-1 draw against Spurs and survive.

 

I've always maintained (and will likely continue to do so) that goal difference is the greatest indicator of how poor a team truly is.  Last season, we had the 5th worst goal difference and just about survived whilst the 3 teams that went down had the worst 3 goal differences in the league.  This season, we've seen a marked improvement in our defensive performances and are currently sat on a -6 goal difference.  I'm firmly of the belief that if Benteke and Vlaar weren't injured for periods, we'd not be posting in a "Lambert should be sacked thread".  Lambert's fault for a lack of squad depth?  Maybe so, but see my previous posts r.e: budget and realistic goals.

 

There are obvious weaknesses in the team but, season on season, I think we're addressing these points.  2 seasons ago, our main problem was scoring goals so we signed Benteke and scored goals.  Last season, our main problem was atrocious defending, so we signed a defender (Okore, unlucky) and have obviously been working on tightening things up.  This season, our main problem has been ball retention and a lack of creativity.  I think we know where Lambert will be looking next in the market...

 

If you can't see/don't want to acknowledge these small (and they are small!) steps in the right direction and, instead, wish to bemoan the team for unattractive football and a run of poor results then fair enough - that's your prerogative.  For me, I'd rather not boo the team and will continue to assess the work being done at the club on a wider scale.  It's my opinion that Lambert recognises where we are weakest (then again, it's not hard), knows what we need to do to improve (again, not hard) and will continue to address these issues as he did last season and going into this one.

 

As per my initial post, I'll personally be judging his time at the end of next season.  Right now we're in the teething stage; after 3 seasons in charge, there should be a notable improvement.

Hello Bobzy.

You need to read the rest of the thread. Like I posted, where has this quality football gone that we was playing towards the end of last season and beginning of this. The team was clicking, even without Benteke we was looking good passing an scoring goals. For some reason Lambert has changed this tactically. Now we are looking much worst moving on close to McLeish performance.

[Richard]

Bobzy,  you are doing your best to close the thread.  Well done as the premise of it is really quite ridiculous

[bobzy]

 

Hello Bobzy.

You need to read the rest of the thread. Like I posted, where has this quality football gone that we was playing towards the end of last season and beginning of this. The team was clicking, even without Benteke we was looking good passing an scoring goals. For some reason Lambert has changed this tactically. Now we are looking much worst moving on close to McLeish performance.

 

 

I completely agree with this foreveryoung, and for me the biggest worry is that we're not keeping possession at all at the moment.

 

On the positive side of things, I'd also look back to the last Christmas period which saw us get absolutely twonked by sides left, right and centre - this period has similarly been disappointing, but perhaps not as soul destroying?

 

On the negative side, the dip in performance has been incredibly alarming.  We're currently playing some of the worst football I've ever seen at Villa.  However, these are the same players and manager that turned out wonderful performances at the start of the season.  I can only assume that some of this is down to naivety or inexperience (on all fronts, players and Lambert).

 

I think it's no coincidence that we're unbeaten in our last 6 games where Ron Vlaar has played.  Great defender?  Probably not.  But what he provides is a know-how that Baker/Clark et al simply don't have.  What players gain over time is consistency - knowing how to do what works well etc.  As a very primitive example, look at Cristiano Ronaldo at Real Madrid now compared to at Man Utd.  Just a massive improvement in know-how, consistency and application.  What we've got is, essentially, a full team of naive footballers.  Take out the more experienced components (Vlaar, Agbonlahor) and we're a different side.  I think these peaks and troughs will just naturally happen but hopefully Lambert will be taking steps to compliment our squad with both quality and experience.

[villa-revolution]

Welcome to the site Bobzy or should I say welcome back HH?

 

Or is it a case HH that Bobzy is your uncle?

Edited January 7, 2014 by villa-revolution

[bobzy]

Uncle Bob 

 

I'm afraid I've got no knowledge of anything within the club.  Although if you'd like me to speculate wildly on the Transfer Rumours thread...

[VillaIRE]

Welcome to the site Bobzy or should I say welcome back HH?

 

Or is it a case HH that Bobzy is your uncle?

 

[Skruff]

 

 

That's an interesting observation (excuse) that Lambert's remit wasn't to make the squad better. You are going to fit right in here with certain posters who have equally made such ridiculous statements to try and defend Lambert's record with us.

I could get into stats concerning last season and this relative to goals scored and conceded concerning whether the squad is better or not but the most overriding factor is results which have been so poor that they have reached parity with the reign of McLeish.

Would you care to reflect on how many games we have actually won with Lambert at the helm which is the 'bigger picture debate?'

 

 

I think it just quite clearly wasn't to make the squad better - that was always going to be an "if possible" situation.  How can you see this as a ridiculous statement?  I'm not defending Lambert's record with us; the results on paper have been poor in the whole.  However, I expected them to be poor as we're in such a transitional stage.  The worrying thing is that our good results have come against teams that we're unlikely to repeat them against... although perhaps the same could be said for those teams we've lost against?

 

I'm honestly not concerned with the tedium of how many games we've won or lost or drawn or should've won or whatever.  The main thing this season is for Aston Villa to survive in the Premier League.  I don't really care if this is via the scrappiest of most scrappy last games of the season where we scrape a 1-1 draw against Spurs and survive.

 

I've always maintained (and will likely continue to do so) that goal difference is the greatest indicator of how poor a team truly is.  Last season, we had the 5th worst goal difference and just about survived whilst the 3 teams that went down had the worst 3 goal differences in the league.  This season, we've seen a marked improvement in our defensive performances and are currently sat on a -6 goal difference.  I'm firmly of the belief that if Benteke and Vlaar weren't injured for periods, we'd not be posting in a "Lambert should be sacked thread".  Lambert's fault for a lack of squad depth?  Maybe so, but see my previous posts r.e: budget and realistic goals.

 

There are obvious weaknesses in the team but, season on season, I think we're addressing these points.  2 seasons ago, our main problem was scoring goals so we signed Benteke and scored goals.  Last season, our main problem was atrocious defending, so we signed a defender (Okore, unlucky) and have obviously been working on tightening things up.  This season, our main problem has been ball retention and a lack of creativity.  I think we know where Lambert will be looking next in the market...

 

If you can't see/don't want to acknowledge these small (and they are small!) steps in the right direction and, instead, wish to bemoan the team for unattractive football and a run of poor results then fair enough - that's your prerogative.  For me, I'd rather not boo the team and will continue to assess the work being done at the club on a wider scale.  It's my opinion that Lambert recognises where we are weakest (then again, it's not hard), knows what we need to do to improve (again, not hard) and will continue to address these issues as he did last season and going into this one.

 

As per my initial post, I'll personally be judging his time at the end of next season.  Right now we're in the teething stage; after 3 seasons in charge, there should be a notable improvement.

 

Best post I've read in while.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Skruff