Papillon Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs didn't have an end product enough of the time. From age 20-33 he scored on average 6 goals per season. In comparison, Beckham scored on average 8 goals per season. When Ronaldo arrived at Old Trafford he blew Giggs out the water. Bale is much better now than Giggs ever was. If his career ended at 30 - which it didn't partly because he was a great athlete - he would be remembered for a couple of great seasons early in his twenties then lack of end product. As I said before, doesn't mean he's not world class-ish. He adapted his game. He had various other in-demand qualities to make up for his lack of end product. You also ignore the fact that he was always in the team. Some players don't need to score 30 goals and have 15 assists each season, only a few are capable of that. David Beckham was a very good footballer and (of course) one of my favorite players of all time given that I was a teenager when he was at his best, but Ryan Giggs has always been better, more consistent and important to the team. Beckham had the looks and media frenzy around him all the time which made him visible, unlike Giggs who always stayed in the shadow because it suited him very well. You mention 8 vs. 6 goals like it's a huge difference, of course it isn't. The wide midfielders in the 90's and 00's didn't really contribute that much in terms of goals, something happened when Cristiano Ronaldo broke through and scored 30+ goals in the league for Man Utd when mainly operating outside the box. You had Robert Pires of course, magnificent player in his prime, but he only scored 14 goals as a record - which he did three years in a row. The other years he was down on 9, 7 and 4 for Arsenal. Giggs managed 13 and 11 back in the early 90's. Like I started this post, he was always in the team. For most of the seasons, the first player on the sheet every single time - you don't get there by being just an average player. Giggs always contributed tactically and because of his smartness, not just goals and assists. He was helping out at the back, he was smart going forward and he created chances for others every single year. You mention Gareth Bale as well, what's your point? Bale has the natural ability to become one of the absolute best players this game has ever seen, alongside Messi and Ronaldo from this generation. Surely enough, his injuries will probably ruin his prospects in the long run, but comparing him with Giggs is nonsense. Being Welsh is not really a very interesting denominator, if Ronaldo or Zidane were Welsh you would have said the same thing. Bale being great and potentially historically great, has got nothing to do with Giggs being great as well. If his career ended ten years ago? What? The man played and was one of the best players on the pitch when United lost to Real Madrid last year in the Champions League, at the age of 38 or 39 or whatever it was. You cannot just discard ten years of his career! Even so, if he retired at the age of 30 he would still be remembered as the player that won the Premier League 8 or 9 times as well as the Champions League. A great player in his prime and an absolute professional, compared to all these idiots with abysmal tattoos and flashy Aston Martin's at the age of 21. I will be sad to see him go, and it's a travesty that he didn't curl in that free-kick at Old Trafford when he played his last game two weeks ago. That would have been some finish to the greatest career in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs didn't have an end product enough of the time. From age 20-33 he scored on average 6 goals per season. Not that it's worth bothering to argue, but between from 1993 to 2006 I make it nine goals per season. Premier League only. Any particular reason? Presumably we're not counting his non-Premier League trophies then either? Premier League only is a fair comparison. Fair to whom? Who are we being unfair on by suggesting that Ryan Giggs was also pretty good in the Champions League and in the FA Cup as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 You also ignore the fact that he was always in the team. Yeah, he was the Agbonlahor of Old Trafford. Pacey, eager, always ready to blaze over another great goal-scoring opportunity. Not brilliant enough to sell to a better team, too good to sell to a worse one. Some players don't need to score 30 goals and have 15 assists each season, only a few are capable of that. David Beckham was a very good footballer and (of course) one of my favorite players of all time given that I was a teenager when he was at his best, but Ryan Giggs has always been better, more consistent and important to the team. Beckham had the looks and media frenzy around him all the time which made him visible, unlike Giggs who always stayed in the shadow because it suited him very well. Ryan Giggs wasn't one of those players and wasn't capable of that. What did he do then? Just enough to earn a place in the team. Beckham scored more and was wanted by Real Madrid. While Giggs was chaperoning the likes of Ashley Young, Beckham got to play alongside greats like Zidane, sunning it in Spain. I know whose career path I'd prefer to have. You mention 8 vs. 6 goals like it's a huge difference, of course it isn't. The wide midfielders in the 90's and 00's didn't really contribute that much in terms of goals, something happened when Cristiano Ronaldo broke through and scored 30+ goals in the league for Man Utd when mainly operating outside the box. You had Robert Pires of course, magnificent player in his prime, but he only scored 14 goals as a record - which he did three years in a row. The other years he was down on 9, 7 and 4 for Arsenal. Giggs managed 13 and 11 back in the early 90's. Quite right. Giggs didn't break the mould. He was typical of his generation of player. The best Welsh winger of his generation, possibly the best British winger unless I've forgotten about anyone. Like I started this post, he was always in the team. For most of the seasons, the first player on the sheet every single time - you don't get there by being just an average player. Giggs always contributed tactically and because of his smartness, not just goals and assists. He was helping out at the back, he was smart going forward and he created chances for others every single year. Increasingly as he got older Giggs had experience. By virtue of being in the same place for a long time no player other than Neville and Scholes, until they retired, knew Old Trafford and Fergie better. He was also a symbol of the club's success - a mascot, if you like, that could inspire the younger players. His strong work ethic was also a valuable trait to have around the dressing room. You mention Gareth Bale as well, what's your point? Bale has the natural ability to become one of the absolute best players this game has ever seen, alongside Messi and Ronaldo from this generation. Surely enough, his injuries will probably ruin his prospects in the long run, but comparing him with Giggs is nonsense. Being Welsh is not really a very interesting denominator, if Ronaldo or Zidane were Welsh you would have said the same thing. Bale being great and potentially historically great, has got nothing to do with Giggs being great as well. The point is Bale is another Welsh winger who is a far more potent attacking weapon than Giggs ever was. He has become greater than Giggs already in his short career. Just look at the quality and number of goals he scores. Oozes world class. Giggs tried hard and just about managed world class-ish by the end of his career, although I will accept that before Ronaldo came on the scene Giggs did look world class. If his career ended ten years ago? What? The man played and was one of the best players on the pitch when United lost to Real Madrid last year in the Champions League, at the age of 38 or 39 or whatever it was. You cannot just discard ten years of his career! Even so, if he retired at the age of 30 he would still be remembered as the player that won the Premier League 8 or 9 times as well as the Champions League. A great player in his prime and an absolute professional, compared to all these idiots with abysmal tattoos and flashy Aston Martin's at the age of 21. I will be sad to see him go, and it's a travesty that he didn't curl in that free-kick at Old Trafford when he played his last game two weeks ago. That would have been some finish to the greatest career in football. I think you're over-doing it but you're entitled to your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Con giggs was nothing like agbonlahor. Look at the skill he had at a young age. He used to flip the ball over his head whilst running at pace. He was a key reason that utd won so many titles during the 90's. He learnt to adapt his game when his body was getting older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Con giggs was nothing like agbonlahor. He's not literally Agbonlahor but he's a more skilful version of the same kind of one-club journeyman professional. Look at the skill he had at a young age. He used to flip the ball over his head whilst running at pace. That sounds useful. Just consider how many goals he scored that way during his career... uh, nevermind. He was a key reason that utd won so many titles during the 90's. He learnt to adapt his game when his body was getting older. Just one player, of many, and the last to retire. I'd give him credit for being a fitness freak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Journeyman means went to loads of clubs. At a young age his skill and pace scared teams, that they had to double up on him meaning the likes of beckham and kanchelskis had more space to operate. You need to look beyond stats alone to see how a player performs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted May 19, 2014 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2014 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs being compared to Gabby? I'm speechless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs being compared to Gabby? I'm speechless! He's great but he's no Gabby. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Giggs being compared to Gabby? I'm speechless! Me too. Much as I like Gabby, he'll still be a pacy kid with potential when he is 41. Giggs is quality. A tosser, but a quality tosser. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 one-club journeyman Sorry Con, but that is pretty funny. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakid007 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Giggs was a phenomenon consistently the best player in the league & champions league matches. If bale has 1/4 of the career as giggs he will be lucky. Giggs had 23 years at the absolute top of football playing for the one of the biggest football clubs on the planet and saw off countless heirs to his throne and even held off sum aged 41 LEGEND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Journeyman means went to loads of clubs. At a young age his skill and pace scared teams, that they had to double up on him meaning the likes of beckham and kanchelskis had more space to operate. You need to look beyond stats alone to see how a player performs If it's space that Giggs needed, and we know fast runners like that, when Ronaldo came on the scene he should have had acres, yet he never got near the numbers Ronaldo posted from the same position. Anyway Beckham was played on the right so I don't know how Giggs could have created space for Beckham because he played on the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Giggs was a phenomenon consistently the best player in the league & champions league matches. If bale has 1/4 of the career as giggs he will be lucky. Giggs had 23 years at the absolute top of football playing for the one of the biggest football clubs on the planet and saw off countless heirs to his throne and even held off sum aged 41 LEGEND Giggs lucked-in to play alongside Scholes, Beckham, Cantona, Ronaldo, Keane etc and to be managed by Fergie. Just because he was a fitness freak who lasted until 40, doesn't mean he was the best of the lot. He was arguably the least talented at football but the best athlete - although Beckham had more stamina. Quick, but Giggs couldn't cross or shoot like Beckham or Scholes. Couldn't tackle like Neville or Butt. Giggs was a fast runner who could dribble. That's it really. Once he got near the net he was a headless chicken. Rather like Gabby, the highlight reel show only the times the ball hit the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoD Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Sometimes I truly wonder if you believe what you post. Comparing Giggs to Gabby is utterly ridiculous as Giggs best asset was that he was a very intelligent player. If he was the headless chicken you try to make him out to be there is no way he would have lasted in that United team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Con, I think the most pertinent question here is whether Barry Bannan is a better footballer than Ryan Giggs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Giggs was a phenomenon consistently the best player in the league & champions league matches. If bale has 1/4 of the career as giggs he will be lucky. Giggs had 23 years at the absolute top of football playing for the one of the biggest football clubs on the planet and saw off countless heirs to his throne and even held off sum aged 41 LEGEND Hes only 40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Con are you being serious? Giggs would not have lasted at the top for as long as he did if he was what you are saying he is. In terms of natural ability there were better Manchester United players, the likes of C Ronaldo, Scholes, Rooney and maybe even Cantona. But he outlasted all of them and was still doing the business at 39. Giggs was not a headless chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Back to the matter at hand, United will be in the top 3 this time next year. Van Gaal will turn them around in very short order, but he's going to need to spend big. Genuinely very excited to see what he'll do there, given the size of the club, the likely budget, and the calibre of players he's capable of bringing in. Poor old Liverpool better hope they win the CL next season, because it'll be a long while before they qualify again through the league. Top 4 will be back to City, Chelsea, Arsenal and United, in whatever order you fancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Who says Liverpool will drop out. If they manage to keep Suarez, and buy a decent defender then I believe Arsenal look far more vulnerable. But yeah Manchester United will be back in the top 4 next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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