Current Affairs Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM to announce

[markavfc40]

Peter that is a cracking post.

[darrenm]

 

What I think would make everyone happy, and would accomplish the exact same goal that Cameron is claiming they want:

 

Force ISPs to offer this network level blocking using the government's block lists, but make it opt-in.

 

It's the exact same thing, the government get to protect the kids all they want, no-one has to put themselves on a kinky list, and there's no opportunity for forced censorship creep.

 

Obviously that's what Dave meant and is kicking himself for accidentally making it sound like all UK porn-watching adults were child molesters.

 

But there'd be no need for legislation then as many ISPs already offer this

 

No they don't.

 

The government saying they'll be the ones policing this means they'll obviously take responsibility for the block lists. The government already maintain the sanctions list which is a list of names in a database that are subject to UK financial sanctions and they front this with a web service that financial services providers have to use.

 

This will likely end up the same way.

 

ISPs (the ones that do offer this service - I've never seen any non-mobile ISP offer network-level blocking) will currently just use some lists maintained by various companies or the IWF. Mostly they'll just offer next to useless Windows nanny software.

[The_Rev]

It's been referenced several times in this thread already but I think it needs spelling out for those who keep missing it.  Martin Niemöller's poem about 1930's Germany:

 

 

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

 

Then they came for the socialists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

 

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

It really is as simple as that.   You shouldn't hand over your civil liberties just because the government have chosen to attack them at a point which doesn't initially effect you.  It's like people who don't think they should be concerned about PRISM and other similar programs because they have "nothing to hide"  

 

Makes me sick. 

[tonyh29]

The elected government of the time also went to war with Iraq despite millions being against it.

There was nothing in the manifestos about internet censorship (or was there?) so people have a right to get angry about it, and the only people who push for it are the Daily Mail crowd dodgy Dave is desperate to please.

Sigh

as Trent pointed out a few pages back it is true that Cameron is the clearing in the woods that is pushing ahead with it but Labour were pushing for even tighter control and thus this isn't the time for partisan politics

[tonyh29]

It's been referenced several times in this thread already but I think it needs spelling out for those who keep missing it. Martin Niemöller's poem about 1930's Germany:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak for me.

It really is as simple as that. You shouldn't hand over your civil liberties just because the government have chosen to attack them at a point which doesn't initially effect you. It's like people who don't think they should be concerned about PRISM and other similar programs because they have "nothing to hide"

Makes me sick.

Agree with what you are saying but Slightly OT Is viewing porn a civil liberty ??

But more than anything i would love to see some poll tax like riots going on in London over our right to view porn ....

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

That post was in reply to another which implied that the UK electorate only has themselves to blame, and I was pointing out how illogical that argument is, and the only people pleased by this proposal are the Daily Mail crowd, and when they run the headline 'Victory for the Mail', I think I'm right to say it.

[The_Rev]

 

It's been referenced several times in this thread already but I think it needs spelling out for those who keep missing it. Martin Niemöller's poem about 1930's Germany:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak for me.

It really is as simple as that. You shouldn't hand over your civil liberties just because the government have chosen to attack them at a point which doesn't initially effect you. It's like people who don't think they should be concerned about PRISM and other similar programs because they have "nothing to hide"

Makes me sick.

Agree with what you are saying but Slightly OT Is viewing porn a civil liberty ??

But more than anything i would love to see some poll tax like riots going on in London over our right to view porn ....

 

 

 

That's the brilliance (for want of a better word) of the strategy of targeting porn.   It's difficult to argue for it in the society we live in, but my point is that it's not really about porn, the civil liberty is freedom of expression.  I really wish we had a constitution like the people of the United States have because the first amendment (in theory at least) could prevent the government from locking down the internet. 

[villaajax]

Torys censor porn on the internet so people have to go back to the old days of nervously buying magazines off the top shelf. David Gold and David Sullivan publish pornographic magazines. Karren Brady is another dirty Tory who made her name by sleeping her way to the top of (ha!) Birmingham City FC.

 

The point is, the only people who can gain from this are David Gold, David Sullivan and Karren Brady.

 

I rest my case.

[tonyh29]

That post was in reply to another which implied that the UK electorate only has themselves to blame, and I was pointing out how illogical that argument is, and the only people pleased by this proposal are the Daily Mail crowd, and when they run the headline 'Victory for the Mail', I think I'm right to say it.

So when Ed says the 'whole of Britain is united in demanding action'

What Ed is in effect doing is saying the whole of Britain reads the Daily Mail

He'll never become PM if he keeps insulting people like that

[ender4]

It's been referenced several times in this thread already but I think it needs spelling out for those who keep missing it.  Martin Niemöller's poem about 1930's Germany:

 

 

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

 

Then they came for the socialists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

 

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

It really is as simple as that.   You shouldn't hand over your civil liberties just because the government have chosen to attack them at a point which doesn't initially effect you.  It's like people who don't think they should be concerned about PRISM and other similar programs because they have "nothing to hide"  

 

Makes me sick. 

 

I agree with the sentiment of that poem, but this issue does effect me.

I have 2 young boys, who will be soon be using the internet. 

 

Therefore, my personal priorities are: safer internet > possible government creep on civil liberties 

[ender4]

 

i like to take things at face value, and give people the benefit of the doubt.

You haven't really answered the question, have you?

Let me put it another way, do you 'believe' (accept may be a better word) that conspiracies have occured, do occur and will continue to occur?

 

 

sorry, been offline until now...

 

yes, i agree that conspiracies have occured & will occur.

but i think they are pretty rare, and most times people think there is a conspiracy, there actually isn't.   

 

so the 99.9% not actually a conspiracy against the 0.1% conspiracy, makes me believe that most things don't have any hidden conspiracy.

[LondonLax]

It's been referenced several times in this thread already but I think it needs spelling out for those who keep missing it. Martin Niemöller's poem about 1930's Germany:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak for me.

It really is as simple as that. You shouldn't hand over your civil liberties just because the government have chosen to attack them at a point which doesn't initially effect you. It's like people who don't think they should be concerned about PRISM and other similar programs because they have "nothing to hide"

Makes me sick.

I agree with the sentiment of that poem, but this issue does effect me.

I have 2 young boys, who will be soon be using the internet.

Therefore, my personal priorities are: safer internet > possible government creep on civil liberties

Make it safer for them yourself. You don't need the government butting in for everyone else.

[StefanAVFC]

As stated earlier, by high school (when computers were still fairly new) even the non-tech savvy people knew about proxies and getting around the school network filter.

 

Computers are part of every day life. More so than 10 years ago. Kids will know how to bypass this faster than the adults, if they don't know already.

[mykeyb]

As an adult I want the internet to be without restriction, if I want to view porn, access piratebay or other torrent site I demand the freedom to do so.

 

As a parent I dont want my 13 year old son to be able unfettered access to HC porn which is but a mouse click away.

 

Now when I was 13 I was off playing in the woods, riding my bike or playing footie, 13 year olds today are skyping their mates, playing on Xbox live with their mates or facebooking them. its a different world and perhaps I am being naive to want my children to keep their innocence a little longer. 

 

Is this the answer........ short term maybe.

[darrenm]

As an adult I want the internet to be without restriction, if I want to view porn, access piratebay or other torrent site I demand the freedom to do so.

 

As a parent I dont want my 13 year old son to be able unfettered access to HC porn which is but a mouse click away.

 

Now when I was 13 I was off playing in the woods, riding my bike or playing footie, 13 year olds today are skyping their mates, playing on Xbox live with their mates or facebooking them. its a different world and perhaps I am being naive to want my children to keep their innocence a little longer. 

 

Is this the answer........ short term maybe.

It is a different world these days.

 

Kids of 4, 5 and 6 don't have to see their parents get their heads cut off when someone takes a fancy to their land, or their sisters raped when some tribe invades their village. They're insulated from hate and violence far more than they ever have been and (at least from my experience) see the world in a much more peaceful way.

 

And similarly, the sum of my sex education at school amounted to an awkward looking form tutor showing condoms to a class of 15 year olds. Now, my son has just watched explicit videos of sex and birth in school at 8. They see sex in far more places than ever before.

 

So they're learning about killing and violence later, and sex and procreation earlier.

 

Really can't see the problem.

[ender4]

 

As an adult I want the internet to be without restriction, if I want to view porn, access piratebay or other torrent site I demand the freedom to do so.

 

As a parent I dont want my 13 year old son to be able unfettered access to HC porn which is but a mouse click away.

 

Now when I was 13 I was off playing in the woods, riding my bike or playing footie, 13 year olds today are skyping their mates, playing on Xbox live with their mates or facebooking them. its a different world and perhaps I am being naive to want my children to keep their innocence a little longer. 

 

Is this the answer........ short term maybe.

It is a different world these days.

 

Kids of 4, 5 and 6 don't have to see their parents get their heads cut off when someone takes a fancy to their land, or their sisters raped when some tribe invades their village. They're insulated from hate and violence far more than they ever have been and (at least from my experience) see the world in a much more peaceful way.

 

And similarly, the sum of my sex education at school amounted to an awkward looking form tutor showing condoms to a class of 15 year olds. Now, my son has just watched explicit videos of sex and birth in school at 8. They see sex in far more places than ever before.

 

So they're learning about killing and violence later, and sex and procreation earlier.

 

Really can't see the problem.

 

 

yeah, but you're talking about normal sex, rather than the warped sex you can see online.

 

think of something like '2 girls 1 cup'.  Pretty much every 10 year old has seen this clip, its legal, yet what must it must do to young kids minds?

How do you stop kids watching this?    There was nothing like this watchable 10 years ago. 

 

and as gross as this video is, its tame compared to some of the free (and barely legal) porn out there.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

The measures people are asking for already exist - you can put a parental lock on to prevent kids seeing pornography. The savvy ones will find a way around it, and quite frankly, if they are so keen, they will find a way around outright censorship.

 

This proposal has, as I already mentioned, sod all to do with 'protecting kids'.

[AVFCforever1991]

The ISP's should not be a child's babysitter..

[Genie]

How long until one of the ISP 'leaks' a list of customers who have disabled the block, a bit like how Sky (I think) lost the data of its customers who had downloaded adult movies from torrents.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Yes, and 'kinkylistgate' will inevitably lead to some overreaction and an interactive map showing which of your neighbours bashes one out to anal fisting, so you know which houses to tell your kids to stay away from, lest they hear the uncontrolled, primal groans of a man with a finger up his arse and a throbbing cock aimed dangerously at the cushions.