Chop chop! Lets all gawp at Newcastle (again)

[OzyBoy]

On 24/06/2022 at 21:56, The_Steve said:

Here's a player excited to join the Geordies

 

This is just a fact of football. Milan obviously have a bigger pull than Newcastle. If Milan had been in for Carlos then would he have preferred to go there than to Villa? I think so.

[OzyBoy]

On 25/06/2022 at 10:45, The_Steve said:

Their transfer policy is still very scattergun and reliant on clubs either not stumping up inflated fees or hoping to just keep throwing money and seeing what sticks. Bruno and Botman are two cases where no other club was prepared to pay the fees offered. It's not a sound long-term strategy.

As you'd expect I disagree with this. It seems pretty targetted (haha) so far. The club is having to battle with the Newcastle tax and so far seem to be prepared to walk away rather than be held to ransom, which seems sensible to me.

[OzyBoy]

On 25/06/2022 at 11:38, The_Steve said:

The realistic problem both of us have is the gap between us and the Top 8 - not even a £100m a window transfer spend guarantees that.

That's it - breaking into the top 8 and staying there is really difficult because everyone is investing - it's not like Villa and Newcastle are strengthening and the top 8 aren't.

[tomav84]

16 minutes ago, OzyBoy said:

I mean, that's just not true is it. Botman was always our first choice, and we haven't been in for Carlos since January. I don't know why people need to make stuff like this up - it just diminishes anything else you have to say.

Why not just be happy that you have Carlos - definitely a really good buy for you (as he would have been for Newcastle), rather than celebrating that you snatched him away from us.

sorry where have i celebrated snatching someone off you? a few on here were getting concerned about your business. i merely indicated i was not too concerned as we have also strengthened well

are you saying that you would have still been in for botman had you gotten carlos in jan? because i struggle to believe that

[OzyBoy]

16 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

sorry where have i celebrated snatching someone off you? a few on here were getting concerned about your business. i merely indicated i was not too concerned as we have also strengthened well

are you saying that you would have still been in for botman had you gotten carlos in jan? because i struggle to believe that

Fair enough - just the assertion that we'd moved onto Botman because Villa landed Carlos just isn't true. If we'd got Carlos I think we'd still be in for Botman because the club see him as a long term investment to take us on to the next level.

FWIW I think Villa have done good business so far in this window.

[tomav84]

32 minutes ago, OzyBoy said:

Fair enough - just the assertion that we'd moved onto Botman because Villa landed Carlos just isn't true. If we'd got Carlos I think we'd still be in for Botman because the club see him as a long term investment to take us on to the next level.

FWIW I think Villa have done good business so far in this window.

OK....i respectfully disagree, bearing in mind you were quoted £50m for carlos. i can't see you would've signed both for a combined £80m+. i know you're minted now but i think you guys are treading carefully because if you start throwing money around everywhere you'll start to get REALLY stung on prices

i'm jealous of pope though. amazed no one else was in for him at that price as there's a few teams in the PL that need a keeper

[bobzy]

Newcastle are doing really sensible business, to be fair.  There isn't a whiff of a Robinho-esque signing at all.

[OzyBoy]

2 hours ago, tomav84 said:

OK....i respectfully disagree, bearing in mind you were quoted £50m for carlos. i can't see you would've signed both for a combined £80m+. i know you're minted now but i think you guys are treading carefully because if you start throwing money around everywhere you'll start to get REALLY stung on prices

i'm jealous of pope though. amazed no one else was in for him at that price as there's a few teams in the PL that need a keeper

I've got no inside info on this but I suspect Botman is one of the players Newcastle would have flexed their financial muscle for, even if we had signed Carlos. Botman/Carlos/Schar/Burn would have been a pretty decent set of CBs.

If the rumoured £10M for Pope is in anyway near accurate then it's really good business. Pope/Dubravka are good, solid options.

[OzyBoy]

25 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Newcastle are doing really sensible business, to be fair.  There isn't a whiff of a Robinho-esque signing at all.

Newcastle is starting to look like a well-run club. A far cry from having Joe Kinnear as Director of Football. That's what we had to endure under Ashley.

[HanoiVillan]

11 minutes ago, OzyBoy said:

Newcastle is starting to look like a well-run club. A far cry from having Joe Kinnear as Director of Football. That's what we had to endure under Ashley.

What do fans expect from this season? Is there a demand to finish in the top 6? Top 8? Or just keep progressing and be entertaining?

[OzyBoy]

17 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

What do fans expect from this season? Is there a demand to finish in the top 6? Top 8? Or just keep progressing and be entertaining?

There's always a lunatic fringe that have completely unrealistic expectations, but for most people I know, outside the top 10 would be disappointing and 7th is the top-end of what we would hope, assuming we are lucky that new players bed in and we don't have injuries to key players. I think our first 11 will be quite strong, but the strength of the squad overall is weak and is going to take a number of windows to improve. Anyone thinking we can finish in the top six is dreaming, frankly, unless other teams implode. A good cup run would be a bonus.

[tomav84]

6 minutes ago, OzyBoy said:

There's always a lunatic fringe that have completely unrealistic expectations, but for most people I know, outside the top 10 would be disappointing and 7th is the top-end of what we would hope, assuming we are lucky that new players bed in and we don't have injuries to key players. I think our first 11 will be quite strong, but the strength of the squad overall is weak and is going to take a number of windows to improve. Anyone thinking we can finish in the top six is dreaming, frankly, unless other teams implode. A good cup run would be a bonus.

is there a fear that the board/owners might have unrealistic expectations and end up doing something like sacking howe if you finish 9th? surely there must be an understanding that it's a long term thing

[OzyBoy]

18 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

is there a fear that the board/owners might have unrealistic expectations and end up doing something like sacking howe if you finish 9th? surely there must be an understanding that it's a long term thing

The messages from the board (mainly Amanda Staveley) are that it will take time to be competitive, so they're doing a good job managing fans' expectations. So I think at board level they are being realistic. How that translates further up the food chain, who knows? The entire infrastructure of the club was completely neglected by Ashley, not just the playing staff. One of the first things the new owners did was to have the windows at St James Park cleaned, which hadn't been done properly for years - that's an indication of the extent of the neglect. The training ground is Championship-level at best, so that's getting a revamp over the summer while they look for a suitable location for a new state-of-the-art training ground (no more ice baths in wheelie bins). If they didn't know this was a long-term project before they bought the club then they do now..

Most people were a bit underwhelmed when Howe was appointed, but he's been a revelation. You can see the players are actually being coached now, they're trying to play with the ball rather that simply sit back and invite pressure. And the way he presents himself, he just seems like a decent bloke. He got a round of applause from the local press at the last press conference of the season for how he's transformed the team and how open he's been with media, in contrast to the warfare between Bruce and the press. So I think he will be given time - I don't think the board are desperate for a big-name manager like Pochettino.

Obviously we'll revisit this at Christmas when we're sitting in 16th and Botman is being run ragged by the likes of Patrick Bamford.

[sne]

Are the fan base discussing who the owners are or are they ignoring it?

[Wainy316]

4 hours ago, tomav84 said:

i'm jealous of pope though. 

Did you forget who our keeper is for a minute there?

[tomav84]

8 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Did you forget who our keeper is for a minute there?

not at all. but pope is miles better than olsen

[OzyBoy]

1 hour ago, sne said:

Are the fan base discussing who the owners are or are they ignoring it?

There are plenty of fans that are very uneasy about the ownership, but what do you do? Walk away? There are lots of business links between the UK and Saudi. Do we boycott them all? Is there a threshold below which it's acceptable for Saudis to invest in a company, but above which it's not?

Should we boycott clubs that are accepting Saudi money from Newcastle as transfer fees? Or once the money has passed from Newcastle to the selling club is it no longer blood money and the selling club can happily spend it on new players and the fan base can just ignore where it originally came from?

I'd rather have different investors, but we are where we are.

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, OzyBoy said:

There are plenty of fans that are very uneasy about the ownership, but what do you do? Walk away? There are lots of business links between the UK and Saudi. Do we boycott them all? Is there a threshold below which it's acceptable for Saudis to invest in a company, but above which it's not?

Should we boycott clubs that are accepting Saudi money from Newcastle as transfer fees? Or once the money has passed from Newcastle to the selling club is it no longer blood money and the selling club can happily spend it on new players and the fan base can just ignore where it originally came from?

I'd rather have different investors, but we are where we are.

It's an interesting point but there's a big difference between using a business and supporting a football club you love, knowing its being used for sportswashing. 

I'm glad it's not us because I genuinely think it would ruin my enjoyment of football. 20 years ago probably not but hard to ignore the shit in the world and then embrace more of it just so your club can win games. 

 

[sne]

11 minutes ago, OzyBoy said:

There are plenty of fans that are very uneasy about the ownership, but what do you do? Walk away? There are lots of business links between the UK and Saudi. Do we boycott them all? Is there a threshold below which it's acceptable for Saudis to invest in a company, but above which it's not?

Should we boycott clubs that are accepting Saudi money from Newcastle as transfer fees? Or once the money has passed from Newcastle to the selling club is it no longer blood money and the selling club can happily spend it on new players and the fan base can just ignore where it originally came from?

I'd rather have different investors, but we are where we are.

Yeah it's not for me to decide thankfully. Each to their own.

Having Villa owned by one of the worst regimes in the world and by a person who directly orders murder and wages a decimating war on their neighbors would be heart breaking.

Can't see me sticking around for that but I would no doubt still check the scores as it's a life long thing.

[tomav84]

6 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

It's an interesting point but there's a big difference between using a business and supporting a football club you love, knowing its being used for sportswashing. 

I'm glad it's not us because I genuinely think it would ruin my enjoyment of football. 20 years ago probably not but hard to ignore the shit in the world and then embrace more of it just so your club can win games. 

 

it really is a difficult one and i'm not sure how i'd feel. i think it's very easy for us to criticise and wonder why fans are not turning their back on the whole thing but could you imagine how difficult that would be? if i were a newcastle fan i think my view wouldve been along the lines of "glad we have new owners...wish it was someone else though". if they win the league will it seem hollow seeing as it's been as a result of saudi money? to some, maybe, but to most i doubt it.

i do wonder how i'd feel if i was an LGBTQ+ supporter, who'd literally be executed in the country of my football club's owners. could i continue to attend games? that would be tough.  @OzyBoy i know that the LGBTQ supporter group (cant remember what they're called) expressed concerns initially...do you know if there's been any dialogue with the new owners on that front?