Bolitics UKIP Nutters

[Delphinho123]

Voting for UKIP as a protest vote is venturing into dangerous territory.

 

For me, it's not exactly what they stand for, and I'm not labelling the whole party as a 'racist'. However, if a party with certain underlying racism and bigotry, who have started attracting certain kinds of people (and again, I'm not generalising. I'm sure there's numerous people who voted UKIP who I'd get on with) can get some sort of power then could it go further?

 

I mean, 10 years ago who would have guessed the Lib Dems would have got anywhere near government?

 

The fact that Lib Dems are in government is more of a reflection on how flawed our voting system is. Nick Clegg (who came out and praised all muslims after Rigby's death the other day) is the luckiest man alive. He shouldn't be anywhere near government.

 

why exactly do you feel it is dangerous territory? The local election results have hit Labour and Conservative hard enough for them to re-think their approach to certain policies and watching them all scuttle around now finding ways to talk about their own immigration policies, IMO, is good for the country.

 

It may only be a protest vote for some, but it has the country/politicians talking about issues that the British people are concerned about.

[villaajax]

I also wonder whether those people who want to leave the EU realise that, as I mentioned earlier, could very well send this country back into a deep recession. Cutting ties with Europe would mean trading prices would go through the roof, out pricing a lot of companies, causing them to go out of business, people being made redundant. The cost of essentials would rise far higher than they are now, including goods and food.

 

The UK would also lose a lot of it's influence in the World and it would not be easy to get back into the EU once these mistakes are realised, the UK would likely be blackballed by other countries to stop it getting back in.

[peterms]

The idea that they are a racist organisation is nonsense. 'Racism' is an overused buzzword designed to keep people quiet.

Well, the founder of the party thinks they have been taken over by racists.

I suppose he might know a little about the party and its workings?

 

Professor Alan Sked, who set up the euro-sceptic party 20 years ago, believes the party has become “anti-immigrant, anti-intellectual and racist”.

 

Or in full:

 

Ukip's founder says the party has gone 'completely fruitcake' The UK Independence Party has “gone completely fruitcake” and is doomed to remain on the political sidelines, its founder and first leader has said.

Professor Alan Sked, who set up the euro-sceptic party 20 years ago, believes the party has become “anti-immigrant, anti-intellectual and racist”.

 

In an interview with *The Sunday Telegraph* the historian also revealed that he once expelled Nigel Farage, the party’s ebullient leader.

 

Now widely considered a growing force in British politics, Ukip won 23 per cent of the vote in last month’s local elections. The party has come second in three recent by-elections and may even win next year’s European elections.

Many Conservative MPs fear Nigel Farage’s party could split the right wing vote at the next election and cost David Cameron a majority in 2015.

 

However, the historian who launched Ukip in September 1993 believes the party’s surge has been exaggerated.

 

“I am delighted to see that the Conservatives are being put under pressure over Europe,” Prof Sked said, speaking in his office at the London School of Economics. Ukip was founded at the university in September 1993.

 

“My great regret is that the party I founded has been captured by the radical Right and has gone all anti-intellectual. It’s gone completely fruitcake.”

 

Prof Sked also mocked an idea recently put forward by Ukip’s deputy leader Godfrey Bloom, that the party could “buy” policies from right-wing think tanks.

 

“Why - are they too stupid to think any up?” the academic said, sitting an office where bookcases seven shelves high groan with historical tomes.

 

Ukip’s founder believes the party’s agenda is too narrow to win mass support at a general election. The party’s performance has been flattered by a turnout of just 31 per cent, Prof Sked argues.

 

He suspects that while Ukip has picked up disaffected Conservative supporters in rural shires, it will struggle in metropolitan areas and at the general election.

 

“The Liberals’ entry into government has robbed them of their status as a protest party,” he said. “That has helped Ukip.”

 

Prof Sked also dismisses claims that a surge of party membership to 25,800 represents a “breakthrough”. The party’s membership stood at 26,000 nine years ago.

 

“Ukip is for many people a stick to beat David Cameron with,” he added. “That’s what a lot of this is about.”

 

The academic paints a vivid picture of a young Mr Farage, the loquacious and hard-living former City trader who has led Ukip since 2006.

 

Prof Sked said it was not uncommon for the commodities broker to turn up at the party’s national executive evening meetings in a “relaxed” mood after a long day working — and drinking — in the Square Mile.

 

The academic also said that he received letters complaining about the spelling and grammar used in Mr Farage’s election literature.

 

“There seemed to be a bit of problem distinguishing its from it’s,” Prof Sked recalled, adding that Mr Farage did admit that writing was not his area of expertise.

 

“It was not always easy to portray us as a party that took education very seriously in such circumstances.” Mr Farage attended Dulwich College, the leading public school, in south London.

 

Ukip’s original leader even said that he tried to oust Mr Farage when he organised a conference exploring Ukip’s future direction after it failed to win any seats in the 1997 general election.

 

Prof Sked described the event as “bizarre” and disloyal. He expelled Mr Farage and two other leading members of the party. However, the trio took legal advice and were told they had a case for being unfairly dismissed.

 

“I had to drop it,” says Prof Sked. “Ukip was down to about £40,000 back then. We couldn’t waste money on lawyers to fight Nigel.” The historian resigned as leader soon after Mr Farage and his two allies returned to the party.

 

Prof Sked criticised the way Mr Farage and his allies subsequently removed a passage from Ukip’s literature which said the party “is a non-sectarian, non-racist body with no prejudices against foreigners or lawful minorities of any kind”.

 

When approach by The Sunday Telegraph Ukip’s current leader said that he was “not particularly interested” in what Professor Sked has to say, adding that the pair have not spoken for 15 years.

 

Mr Farage denied that his party was racist or anti-immigrant, and said that the decision to remove the line about Ukip being “non racist” was made when the party drew up a constitution.

 

“We have actually ensured that extremists from neither the Right nor Left can join our party,” he added.

 

Despite his disdain for Ukip’s current leadership, Prof Sked feels the party he created two decades ago has had some success.

 

“Our main aim was to convert the Conservative party to a policy of quitting the European Union — just as the anti-corn law league in the 1840s converted Sir Robert Peel to free trade.

 

“It has taken a while, but in this I have succeeded.”

 

Although now aged 65, he does not rule out starting a new political party.

 

“I think there is a place for a euro-sceptic party on the centre Left of politics to put a bit of pressure on Labour and the Liberal Democrats,” he said.

 

“I’d certainly be interested in helping to do that.”

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

 

Voting for UKIP as a protest vote is venturing into dangerous territory.

 

For me, it's not exactly what they stand for, and I'm not labelling the whole party as a 'racist'. However, if a party with certain underlying racism and bigotry, who have started attracting certain kinds of people (and again, I'm not generalising. I'm sure there's numerous people who voted UKIP who I'd get on with) can get some sort of power then could it go further?

 

I mean, 10 years ago who would have guessed the Lib Dems would have got anywhere near government?

 

 

why exactly do you feel it is dangerous territory? The local election results have hit Labour and Conservative hard enough for them to re-think their approach to certain policies and watching them all scuttle around now finding ways to talk about their own immigration policies, IMO, is good for the country.

 

 

Will it though? A party who's only selling point is on one policy are actually starting to get power. Doesn't that scare you a little bit?

[Delphinho123]

 

 

Voting for UKIP as a protest vote is venturing into dangerous territory.

 

For me, it's not exactly what they stand for, and I'm not labelling the whole party as a 'racist'. However, if a party with certain underlying racism and bigotry, who have started attracting certain kinds of people (and again, I'm not generalising. I'm sure there's numerous people who voted UKIP who I'd get on with) can get some sort of power then could it go further?

 

I mean, 10 years ago who would have guessed the Lib Dems would have got anywhere near government?

 

 

why exactly do you feel it is dangerous territory? The local election results have hit Labour and Conservative hard enough for them to re-think their approach to certain policies and watching them all scuttle around now finding ways to talk about their own immigration policies, IMO, is good for the country.

 

 

Will it though? A party who's only selling point is on one policy are actually starting to get power. Doesn't that scare you a little bit?

 

 

No more than having another term of Labour or Conservative.

[villaajax]

Why don't you protest vote for The MRLP? They actually have more policies and are a lot more sensible on key issues.

[StefanAVFC]

 

 

 

Voting for UKIP as a protest vote is venturing into dangerous territory.

 

For me, it's not exactly what they stand for, and I'm not labelling the whole party as a 'racist'. However, if a party with certain underlying racism and bigotry, who have started attracting certain kinds of people (and again, I'm not generalising. I'm sure there's numerous people who voted UKIP who I'd get on with) can get some sort of power then could it go further?

 

I mean, 10 years ago who would have guessed the Lib Dems would have got anywhere near government?

 

 

why exactly do you feel it is dangerous territory? The local election results have hit Labour and Conservative hard enough for them to re-think their approach to certain policies and watching them all scuttle around now finding ways to talk about their own immigration policies, IMO, is good for the country.

 

 

Will it though? A party who's only selling point is on one policy are actually starting to get power. Doesn't that scare you a little bit?

 

 

No more than having another term of Labour or Conservative.

 

 

At least they don't pin their mast to their post with one policy. Whether or not I agree with the Tories or Labour, at least they present what they stand for in all sectors. What UKIP are doing is praying on the current anger that is emanating throughout the UK at the moment.

[villaajax]

I think that if the facts were presented properly and unbiasedly to the people of this country, they would vote to stay in the EU.

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

I think that if the facts were presented properly and unbiasedly to the people of this country, they would vote to stay in the EU.

 

Based on what?

[chrisp65]

The New Britain Party was a small (very small) party formed back in the 1970’s. It’s aim, according to its election and canvassing leaflet was to stop ‘coloured immigration into Britain’. In 1980 it absorbed the United Country Party, chaired by tv astronomer Patrick Moore, it’s aim was also to stop African and Asian immigration into Britain.

Mike Natrass has been an MEP for UKIP. Jeffrey Titford has been an MEP for UKIP. Brian Smalley has been a UKIP candidate and part of the UKIP national committee. Brian Smalley resigned from UKIP as he felt Nigel Farage was dishonest and makes untrue statements.

All three people were previously part of the New Britain Party.

 

 

 

[villaajax]

 

I think that if the facts were presented properly and unbiasedly to the people of this country, they would vote to stay in the EU.

 

Based on what?

 

 

Read up, I can't be bothered to type it out again.

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

 

 

I think that if the facts were presented properly and unbiasedly to the people of this country, they would vote to stay in the EU.

 

Based on what?

 

 

Read up, I can't be bothered to type it out again.

 

 

It just came across as if people on one side of this debate had some kind of innate intellectual superiority over those on the other. The kind of 'If only they could understand things as well as me they would clearly agree with me' attitude that at very best could described as pompous...I just wanted to make sure I got the tone right?

[peterms]

Its aim, according to its election and canvassing leaflet was to stop ‘coloured immigration into Britain’.

That at least has the virtue of honesty.

 

So many of these anti-immigration peeps want to pretend they're non-racist, or even anti-racist.

 

It would be more refreshing if they could just have the courage to be a tiny bit more honest.  But I suppose it's not in their character.

[AVFCforever1991]

I don't understand why people fear other cultures? It baffles me.

 

If it was up to me, there would be no borders and no passports..

 

We are all one and the sooner people realise that, the better.

 

I may be a dreamer

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2013 by AVFCforever1991

[PieFacE]

For some people it's not a fear of other people's cultures, it's simply wanting to live within their own culture and to not watch it change.

 

That's not my view, but it's a view I respect. 

Edited May 26, 2013 by PieFacE

[StefanAVFC]

People have to adapt to survive.

 

We live in a world where people move their country. I guess the generation that didn't go abroad are getting older and the generation that have had the opportunity to go abroad are taking their place. UKIP are a party suited to 30 years ago. Not suited to the cosmopolitan and mixed world we live in today.

[tonyh29]

Its aim, according to its election and canvassing leaflet was to stop ‘coloured immigration into Britain’.

That at least has the virtue of honesty.

So many of these anti-immigration peeps want to pretend they're non-racist, or even anti-racist.

It would be more refreshing if they could just have the courage to be a tiny bit more honest. But I suppose it's not in their character.

Like Lord Ahmed you mean

Edited May 26, 2013 by tonyh29

[Delphinho123]

Stefan, I genuinely would love to have the same outlook on everything as you do, I'm sure I'd be a lot happier!

 

Unfortunately, I live in the real world. 

 

The BNP, EDL etc. are no more dangerous than people like yourself. 

[drat01]

For some people it's not a fear of other people's cultures, it's simply wanting to live within their own culture and to not watch it change.

 

That's not my view, but it's a view I respect. 

But the reality of that is that it's impossible to occur. The world is a shrinking place and economies are based on world wide factors.

 

Albania of a few years back tried to be inward only looking and that was not exactly a success was it

[drat01]

Stefan, I genuinely would love to have the same outlook on everything as you do, I'm sure I'd be a lot happier!

 

Unfortunately, I live in the real world. 

 

The BNP, EDL etc. are no more dangerous than people like yourself. 

To believe that the BNP and EDL etc are not dangerous shows a complete lack of knowledge of what they are and what they stand for