Current Affairs Boston bombing

[Kwan]

Wow. I don't think I've ever seen so much bullshit in one link.

So have there been explanations of these things?

• him having a white backpack when the bomb was said to be in a black backpack
• first brother shown naked, uninjured, in handcuffs, then dead with gaping wounds
• second brother shown climbing out of the boat, then suddenly half dead with major blood loss
• FBI in contact with older brother over 5 years
• Putin offers help on Tuesday, before suspect identified and any Chechen connection known

I haven't been following this daily, so perhaps these things have been explained.

-There were two bombs. The second bomb was a lighter back pack

-That's not the first suspect in the naked picture. That's a completely unrelated person. Wrong place, wrong time

-There's another aerial picture of the 2nd kid in the boat showing him severely injured

-FBI hasn't been in 'contact' for 5 years. They interviewed him once in 2011 and cleared him

-Got them there! Though I suspect almost every country bar for the DPRK offered them 'help.' The marathon is an international event after all

Edited April 24, 2013 by Kwan

[peterms]

-There were two bombs. The second bomb was a lighter back pack

-That's not the first suspect in the naked picture. That's a completely unrelated person. Wrong place, wrong time

-There's another aerial picture of the 2nd kid in the boat showing him severely injured

-FBI hasn't been in 'contact' for 5 years. They interviewed him once in 2011 and cleared him

-Got them there! Though I suspect almost every country bar for the DPRK offered them 'help.' The marathon is an international event after all

Richard Deslauriers from the FBI stated on tv on 17 April that they had determined that morning that both devices were placed in a dark coloured bag or backpack.

Has there been any statement about who the naked man is? I know the police have said it wasn't him, but I don't see anything actually supporting this, despite a lot of interest. Like a named, real person for example. I should imagine he could sell his story for a lot of money.

Don't suppose you have a link to that other photo showing him injured in the boat? The only ones I can find are thermal imaging.

The FBI did interview him in 2011. And according to his mother, continued to be in contact after that.

I don't find any mention of other countries offering help. There's a lot of the usual condolences, sympathy, support, but only Russia offers help. I wonder what help might be thought necessary.

Some other things which seem odd about all this are that after the bombing, Dzokhar went to college, went to the gym, went to a party, had conversations with classmates who found him entirely normal. Later, they don't seem to have had a getaway plan, to the point where they had to mug someone for his credit card. We are told this was because they had no intention of being taken alive, but neither do they seem to have armed themselves properly, despite being in a country where it is astonishingly easy to get hold of all sorts of weapons. Then he is supposed to have shot himself in the mouth in an attempted suicide, but then shortly afterwards decides to surrender, and is able to climb out of the boat, before collapsing and having to have emergency assistance.

I actually find all that quite hard to believe.

[mjmooney]

Elmirza Khozhugov, 26, the ex-husband of Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s younger sister, Ailina, said that Tamerlan Tsarnaev had been enamored of conspiracy theories, and that he was also concerned by the wars in the Middle East.

“He was looking for connections between the wars in the Middle East and oppression of Muslim population around the globe,” Mr. Khozhugov said in an e-mail. “It was very hard to argue with him on themes somehow connected to religion. On the other hand, he did not hate Christians. He respected their faith. Never said anything bad about other religions. But he was angry that the world pictures Islam as a violent religion.”

New York Times

 

So he planted a bomb in a crowd...

[Kwan]

When I meant lighter backpack, I meant something that cream colored or brown. I can't find the exact report on it, but I kept with it fairly heavily during last week and I distinctly remember one of the bags being brown or cream colored and the other being black.

 

Again, I don't have a direct link but on the police scanner, they had identified 3 suspects at the initial early Friday morning shoot out. The naked man was one of them along with the Tsarnaev brothers. Even going beyond that, it's a little far fetched to think that a naked man seen by more than a dozen cops is actually the Tamerlan.

 

The picture I'm talking about is the one with him astride the boat. Obviously it's up for interpretation but it looks like his midsection is covered in blood. Either that or he pissed his pants in the wrong direction.

 

But if you believe there's a conspiracy, then I don't think anything I say will really convince you otherwise.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Kwan

[peterms]

But if you believe there's a conspiracy, then I don't think anything I say will really convince you otherwise.

I don't understand the logic of it, but it seems that whenever anyone questions any significant aspect of the official line on some puzzling incident involving the security forces and state power, they are assumed to be conspiracy theorists who are unable to comprehend reasonable explanations and whose minds are closed to any story other than a fantastical one of which they have already convinced themselves. And on that basis, their questions can be waved away with the term "conspiracy", like a magic incantation.

Why, it's almost as if there were a conspiracy...

[Kwan]

It's not that I think you're a conspiracy theorist. It's just it's a bit baffling to try and find every single reason for why they would do something. I'll go on a point by point basis on their incredibly strange actions.

 

Some other things which seem odd about all this are that after the bombing, Dzokhar went to college, went to the gym, went to a party, had conversations with classmates who found him entirely normal.

 

Perhaps he was trying to fit in. Perhaps he's a sociopath. Ted Bundy was described as a very relateable man that seemed completely normal. Obviously the caricature is that it's an anti-social loner doing these things, but it's not always true. Maybe he was trying to fit in as to not arouse suspicion. Maybe he thought he could really get away with it. Who really knows besides Dzhokhar?

 

Later, they don't seem to have had a getaway plan, to the point where they had to mug someone for his credit card.

 

The older brother was unemployed and the younger kid was in college. Add that to the fact that they mugged his credit card, withdrew the maximum limit, then went to another ATM thinking they could withdraw the maximum limit again, not knowing that the accounts are linked and that they couldn't withdraw anymore. Were they panicked? Were they stupid? Were they just not thinking straight?

 

We are told this was because they had no intention of being taken alive, but neither do they seem to have armed themselves properly, despite being in a country where it is astonishingly easy to get hold of all sorts of weapons.

 

Massachusetts is a very difficult state to gets gun in. There's a whole litany of regulations and loopholes including having a permit issues to you by the police department. Contrary to popular belief, you can't just waltz in somewhere and get a gun in certain states.

 

Then he is supposed to have shot himself in the mouth in an attempted suicide, but then shortly afterwards decides to surrender, and is able to climb out of the boat, before collapsing and having to have emergency assistance.

 

 

I think the attempted suicide thing is conjecture, but people have walked on broken legs and splintered bones in shock and adrenaline.

 

It would be nice and easy if there was a concrete explanation for everything but sometimes there isn't. If you want a longer read for all the completely crazy and inane things they did, you should read this article. It provides some insight on how unprepared they were and how they had no exit plan at all.

 

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/04/eleven-most-mystifying-things-tsarnaev-brothers-did

 

And on a broader point, these two guys weren't "terrorists." It's easy to classify them as such but they have more in common with the Aurora shooter or the Newtown shooter.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Kwan

[omariqy]

_{I am not one for conspiracy theories but I genuinely can't believe people actually take anything any governement official from the US or even our own nation says at face value.  These people lie week in week out, day in day out.  Not just little lies but lies that end up with millions dead.  Question everything.}

[omariqy]

Saying that, sometimes there are just evil people out there with no justification for their horrible actions. 

[Dodgyknees]

 

But if you believe there's a conspiracy, then I don't think anything I say will really convince you otherwise.

I don't understand the logic of it, but it seems that whenever anyone questions any significant aspect of the official line on some puzzling incident involving the security forces and state power, they are assumed to be conspiracy theorists who are unable to comprehend reasonable explanations and whose minds are closed to any story other than a fantastical one of which they have already convinced themselves. And on that basis, their questions can be waved away with the term "conspiracy", like a magic incantation.

Why, it's almost as if there were a conspiracy...

 

 

I was brought up to question before accepting. Not accepting everything with one eye open. Unfortunately, this world is one where  things such as a shared photo on facebook can cure cancer (Share this and it will cure cancer) and so it is no wonder that when I do question things, I am called a conspiracy theorist.

[maqroll]

 

And on a broader point, these two guys weren't "terrorists." It's easy to classify them as such but they have more in common with the Aurora shooter or the Newtown shooter.

 

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet. If in fact, if they were motivated by "religious zeal" as the younger brother has apparently confessed, their actions would seem to more closely fit with the actions of what we traditionally associate with "terrorism". Indiscriminate carnage by I.E.D. in the name of religion. The Aurora shooter was a psychopath with a gun, these Chechen brothers were sane, but waging Jihad (allegedly).

[brommy]

Why play a guessing game over things you don't know the full facts of?

[Frobisher]

The naked guy has no hair on his chest, while the dead brother is pretty hairy. Plus the naked guy looks much more muscular. To me they appear to be completely different people. I think the New York Post "Bag Men" debacle proved the danger of getting carried away without access to any real evidence or inside knowledge.

Edited April 24, 2013 by stwefano

[choffer]

Why play a guessing game over things you don't know the full facts of?

Speculation, opinion and conjecture form the basis of this (and most other) forum. Take a peek in villatalk and you'll see the overwhelming majority of people are guessing without the full facts

[flamingsombrero]

 

Edited April 25, 2013 by flamingsombrero

[maqroll]

Massachusetts is a very difficult state to gets gun in.

 

Not really. At least not in the case of Class B permits. All you have to do is have a 5-10 minute "interview" with the designated gun permit cop in your community, and tell him why you want a firearm (target practice and/or home defense)...if you aren't a mental case, have no felonies or violence and drug related misdemeanors on your record, they cannot deny you a firearm permit. 

 

What's difficult in Massachusetts regarding gun ownership are the restrictive laws you need to follow once you have a gun. You have to keep it locked in a gun safe in your home, and when traveling by car, you have to have it unloaded, and locked in a gun safe.

 

The state does issue License to Carry permits, where you can carry a loaded, concealed handgun....those are the ones that are pretty hard to get.

[maqroll]

Why play a guessing game over things you don't know the full facts of?

Because it's interesting, topical and enjoyable?

[Kwan]

Massachusetts is a very difficult state to gets gun in.

Not really. At least not in the case of Class B permits. All you have to do is have a 5-10 minute "interview" with the designated gun permit cop in your community, and tell him why you want a firearm (target practice and/or home defense)...if you aren't a mental case, have no felonies or violence and drug related misdemeanors on your record, they cannot deny you a firearm permit.

What's difficult in Massachusetts regarding gun ownership are the restrictive laws you need to follow once you have a gun. You have to keep it locked in a gun safe in your home, and when traveling by car, you have to have it unloaded, and locked in a gun safe.

The state does issue License to Carry permits, where you can carry a loaded, concealed handgun....those are the ones that are pretty hard to get.

It must depend on the PD. Whenever my cousin tried to get his Class B, the PD grilled him for 3 interviews and only gave it to him after dragging their feet for 4 months

[maqroll]

It might be an age thing? If you're 21, the police might be more reluctant to issue you one, or try to see how serious you are about the process by dragging it out.

[peterms]

I think the attempted suicide thing is conjecture, but people have walked on broken legs and splintered bones in shock and adrenaline.

 

I think it's simply untrue.  We were first told that he was armed and was exchanging fire from within the boat, but it now seems he was unarmed.  Washington Post.

 

 

APNewsBreak: Officials say surviving bomb suspect unarmed when captured hiding inside boat

By Associated Press,

WASHINGTON — Two U.S. officials say the surviving suspect in the Boston bombings was unarmed when police captured him hiding inside a boat in a neighborhood back yard.

Authorities originally said they had exchanged gunfire with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (joh-KHAHR’ tsahr-NEYE’-ehv) for more than one hour Friday evening before they were able to subdue him.

The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the ongoing investigation, say investigators recovered a 9 mm handgun believed to have been used by Tsarnaev’s brother, Tamerlan, from the site of a gun battle Thursday night, which injured a Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority officer. Dzhokhar was believed to have been shot before he escaped.

The officials tell The Associated Press that no gun was found in the boat. Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis said earlier that shots were fired from inside the boat.

 

 

That's how it's usually done, isn't it?  Surround someone with scores of police and shoot the **** out of them?  The side of the boat is covered in hundreds of shots, like it was used for not very accurate target practice.

 

That he was captured alive seems to be a stroke of luck, not the intention.

[Stevo985]

 

I know the answer to one of the questions.

 

WHO'D THEY STEAL THE WHEELCHAIR FROM?

 

They have spare wheelchairs at the finish line for any runners suffering from cramp or exhaustion.

Exactly. Every ambulance would have a wheelchair in it too.

 

He's not bleeding because he's got a tourniquet on. He's clearly lost a lot of blood because he's white as a sheet.

He does look in shock, which is probably why he might not be feeling as much pain as you'd expect.

 

Then they've put in a picture of some random army bloke and pretended it's him, despite there being little resemblence (apart from the lack of legs)

 

And the army guy has less of his legs left than the chap in the wheelchair.

 

What a steaming pile of dog turd.

 

Remember this post about the ridiculous claims that the guy with his legs blown off was a fake (I haven't quoted the picture because it's grim)

 

One of the points was "Why is there no blood dripping below the wheelchair" (I suggested above that it was because he had a tourniquet on)

 

Someone pointed out to me this morning, that one of the reasons that blood isn't dripping everywhere is because the other guy in the picture, the one with the cowboy hat, is actually holding the guy's artery in his hand, pinching the end shut.

 

Grim.