The Randy Lerner thread

[kurtsimonw]

 

Yeah, we're the only club in World football where the owner of the club isn't also the most passionate fan of the club. Some of the criticism of Lerner is hilarious.

And how many others branded their leg with a tattoo and made out they were?

 

Can you show me a quote where Lerner claims to be the biggest fan of the club? Or are you just talking rubbish? I think we both know it's not the first option.

[TRO]

 

better to have tried and failed as to have never tried at all....from his point of view.

Just wish he hadn't carried on with the "failing" phase of his reign for quite so long before he realised the game was up. 

 

Perhaps he wouldn't have carried on with the "failing phase" for so long if he had of had an oil well in Kuwait.

 

Briny, by the reference to the "failing phase" I deduce you infer there was a "successful phase" .....was that successful phase when we were buying players for fun and redeveloping the embarrassment of the "Holte Hotel"

 

In most things we all do in life the good bits usually have a repercussion of some sort.....He signed managers who brought nothing to the table and he gave them money that they squandered on too many poor players.

 

We can all make mistakes in life and the ones amongst us who have the money to negate them come out better.

 

Not defending him, just trying to add a bit of balance.....you know my stance and it always will be, I blame managers who buy poor players, not owners. If the managers don't like the money they have, don't buy any body and look for another job.

Once a manager buys a player whether its his first, second or third choice, that is his call and he has to stand by it.

 

We have simply bought too many players in his time, we got nothing from, over the years and paid them handsomely.....I see that as primarily a Manager problem. I will stand corrected, but I think we made better value from Dougs Modest sums, but perhaps he chose some of the managers better and in turn they bought better.

 

I have listened intently on Talk Sport to debates on other clubs where the argument has been centred around the Chairman dictating who comes in by way of selection and them saying in such circumstances you can't blame the manager for whats on the pitch, (fair enough).....Randy has not done that to my knowledge....He has given the managers autonomy to buy players within a budget.....They to me, are the ones responsible for the money drain. 1. not increasing revenue by performance levels. 2. having to sell them fully amortised to save the wages.....Almost every bit of revenue a club musters is a reflection of the success a player is and his ultimate contribution to the team performance/results and the trophies they bring.

 

Early days I know, but we are now seeing a man, who has spent no money ( i know he can't) but is turning things around and lifting morale....Thats what managers should do....Owners just provide up to a point.

Edited April 15, 2015 by TRO

[bobzy]

 

 

better to have tried and failed as to have never tried at all....from his point of view.

Just wish he hadn't carried on with the "failing" phase of his reign for quite so long before he realised the game was up. 

 

Perhaps he wouldn't have carried on with the "failing phase" for so long if he had of had an oil well in Kuwait.

 

Briny, by the reference to the "failing phase" I deduce you infer there was a "successful phase" .....was that successful phase when we were buying players for fun and redeveloping the embarrassment of the "Holte Hotel"

 

In most things we all do in life the good bits usually have a repercussion of some sort.....He signed managers who brought nothing to the table and he gave them money that they squandered on too many poor players.

 

We can all make mistakes in life and the ones amongst us who have the money to negate them come out better.

 

Not defending him, just trying to add a bit of balance.....you know my stance and it always will be, I blame managers who buy poor players, not owners. If the managers don't like the money they have, don't buy any body and look for another job.

Once a manager buys a player whether its his first, second or third choice, that is his call and he has to stand by it.

 

We have simply bought too many players in his time, we got nothing from, over the years and paid them handsomely.....I see that as primarily a Manager problem. I will stand corrected, but I think we made better value from Dougs Modest sums, but perhaps he chose some of the managers better and in turn they bought better.

 

I have listened intently on Talk Sport to debates on other clubs where the argument has been centred around the Chairman dictating who comes in by way of selection and them saying in such circumstances you can't blame the manager for whats on the pitch, (fair enough).....Randy has not done that to my knowledge....He has given the managers autonomy to buy players within a budget.....They to me, are the ones responsible for the money drain. 1. not increasing revenue by performance levels. 2. having to sell them fully amortised to save the wages.....Almost every bit of revenue a club musters is a reflection of the success a player is and his ultimate contribution to the team performance/results and the trophies they bring.

 

Early days I know, but we are now seeing a man, who has spent no money ( i know he can't) but is turning things around and lifting morale....Thats what managers should do....Owners just provide up to a point.

 

 

I think it's fair enough to blame a manager for bringing in poor players or for not getting the best out of the players he has, but the bits highlighted are wrong for me.

 

The overpaying of players isn't a manager problem - it's down to whoever is running the finances.  Likewise, if Randy gave his managers a budget which was unsustainable (factually, it was) then that is down to him, not the manager.

 

Again, for me, the reason we've struggled for consecutive seasons isn't solely down to one party - but Lerner takes the brunt of it because of the initial overspend.  If he'd have been more prudent, we potentially would've had more funds to invest in a struggling squad.  As it was, we lost our best players for decent money (Milner, Young) and did not have the necessary funds to replace them adequately.

 

Of course, at the time of doing well, no-one really cared about this.

[kurtsimonw]

Was Randy the one valuing players that we signed or just signing the cheques?

[Stevo985]

Thats the point.

 

The budget wasn't unsustainable if we made it to the holy grail of the Champions League.

That's where MON takes some responsibility. Yes he spent the money that Randy gave him, but had that been spent more wisely then 1. We may have made the champions league and 2. We'd have had more re-saleable players to compensate for not making it.

[kurtsimonw]

Yep.

 

Lerner basically trusting a footballing man (MON) to do his job properly and he took the piss. That's probably his biggest flaw in his time here, trusting people to do their jobs properly.

[bobzy]

Thats the point.

 

The budget wasn't unsustainable if we made it to the holy grail of the Champions League.

That's where MON takes some responsibility. Yes he spent the money that Randy gave him, but had that been spent more wisely then 1. We may have made the champions league and 2. We'd have had more re-saleable players to compensate for not making it.

 

I don't think football works in the way of "MON spent the money that Randy give him".  I'd like to assume that Lerner/someone working in actual finance was negotiating transfer fees and contracts.  If that was left to MON, then Lerner takes the blame because it's **** stupid to leave that to a football manager.  MON may well have identified the wrong players, and that's certainly down to him, but the board sanctioned the fees and wages.  They were ludicrous.  Nothing was learnt with Bent, N'Zogbia and Given either.  This wasn't a MON issue.

 

Even during our best periods of recent years, most of our spending was done in the summer.  If you're budgeting to qualify for the Champions League (something we hadn't achieved in any of the previous seasons) at the start of a campaign and overspending to the extent that the club suffers in the next 4/5 seasons because of this then, again, you're at fault.

 

We have been terribly mis-managed at the top for years - irrespective of any manager's failings.  I'm not going to give Lerner any abuse as I genuinely think he wants the best for the club, but it's mainly his fault we're in this position.

[Stevo985]

I wasn't trying to absolve Lerner of blame. Absolutely not.

 

Just that MON and his signings deserve to shoulder some of it.

[TRO]

Thats the point.

 

The budget wasn't unsustainable if we made it to the holy grail of the Champions League.

That's where MON takes some responsibility. Yes he spent the money that Randy gave him, but had that been spent more wisely then 1. We may have made the champions league and 2. We'd have had more re-saleable players to compensate for not making it.

 

that is exactly the point I make, when I'm trying to put some balance back. The budget was sustainable had the players we bought reached the levels we/he expected to raise the revenue to cover....when that didn't materialise  Plan B Austerity was introduced......Thats what happens when you buy players that don't work out....we just bought too many of them.

 

I fail to understand why some folk, don't get the quality of player we bought for the money is the central issue.

I wasn't trying to absolve Lerner of blame. Absolutely not.

 

Just that MON and his signings deserve to shoulder some of it.

 

my point too.

[bannedfromHandV]

cannot believe we're still going round in circles on this

[Raver50032]

I won't be sorry to see his tenure end I will be brutally honest with you all. But if I see him at Wembley and I get to shake his hand, I would do... and if he pops up on the big screen, I won't boo him. Hell, if I could afford Wembley prices on match day, I'd even buy him a beer.

 

Thanks Randy... it's time to go... thank you for what you tried to do, shame it didn't work out...

Edited April 15, 2015 by Raver50032

[TRO]

 

Thats the point.

 

The budget wasn't unsustainable if we made it to the holy grail of the Champions League.

That's where MON takes some responsibility. Yes he spent the money that Randy gave him, but had that been spent more wisely then 1. We may have made the champions league and 2. We'd have had more re-saleable players to compensate for not making it.

 

I don't think football works in the way of "MON spent the money that Randy give him".  I'd like to assume that Lerner/someone working in actual finance was negotiating transfer fees and contracts.  If that was left to MON, then Lerner takes the blame because it's **** stupid to leave that to a football manager.  MON may well have identified the wrong players, and that's certainly down to him, but the board sanctioned the fees and wages.  They were ludicrous.  Nothing was learnt with Bent, N'Zogbia and Given either.  This wasn't a MON issue.

 

 

I think at some clubs it does and Certainly MON was in full control, otherwise he wouldn't have joined us....He would never have worked for HDE, that was just a smokescreen signing for Doug, MON wanted to run things like his mentor Brian.

I would suspect due to Randy's naivety He accepted Mon's Reputation.....My understanding is that Managers are consulted on Fee's and Wages depending on the club, it has a big bearing on Team spirit....also my view was Randy was not in a strong enough position( new to the business) to Defy a revered manager who reportedly at the time knew the business inside out....its called trust and mutual acceptance. How on earth was Randy in a position deny a move for Reo Coker at 8mill & 40k per week wages...He trusted his Manager, and foolishly carried on doing so.

 

I accept the final sentence.....but I ask you this?

 

do you want a chairman or owner to start selecting players as well as buying them....They take recommendations from the football people i.e Managers, they know the going rate....just like a Used Car Manager in a dealership....He it he valuer, The GM just allows him to do it....until he gets it wrong too many times.....and that what happened with MON/RL

 

I have never said on here that RL is blameless..... but he is the one, like us who has to stay behind to see the shit unfold, way after the horse has bolted.

 

There are many people and Factors to blame....its him and us pay the price.....the others take the money and run.

Edited April 15, 2015 by TRO

[Neil]

Thats the point.

The budget wasn't unsustainable if we made it to the holy grail of the Champions League.

That's where MON takes some responsibility. Yes he spent the money that Randy gave him, but had that been spent more wisely then 1. We may have made the champions league and 2. We'd have had more re-saleable players to compensate for not making it.

An owner who rests the future of our club entirely on a champions league spot, reckless red or black, make or bust. Reckless fool, bought in managers who can't be shot down for trying their best...all the blaim / risk lies with the owner who didn't get the capable people to realise his make or break gamble.

Relegation would have crippled us, with cost cutting going on in the championship.

I believe he's always seen the club as a capital venture / fun time play thing, nothing more. And going on about him "giving us money from the bottom of his heart" makes me chuckle. Up for sale now he's realised it's out of his capability to make money in football / got bored.

[TRO]

I think you will find football has rarely mirrored the prudency of NORMAL business.

 

Some of the things that have gone on in the running of football clubs has flyed in the face of normal business.... but it is what it is or was what it was , not sure which.....but not all clubs are run like Arsenal.

 

Its no good getting all precious about how a football club should be run.....we had one that in business eyes was run properly by HDE...and that was not to our satisfaction.

 

its seems like you are ****** if you do and ****** don't.

 

I just think he failed, but with generally good intentions.

[Dodgyknees]

Yeah, we're the only club in World football where the owner of the club isn't also the most passionate fan of the club. Some of the criticism of Lerner is hilarious.

And how many others branded their leg with a tattoo and made out they were?

Can you show me a quote where Lerner claims to be the biggest fan of the club? Or are you just talking rubbish? I think we both know it's not the first option.

Sorry, did i say he did?

[Stevo985]

 

 

 

Yeah, we're the only club in World football where the owner of the club isn't also the most passionate fan of the club. Some of the criticism of Lerner is hilarious.

And how many others branded their leg with a tattoo and made out they were?

Can you show me a quote where Lerner claims to be the biggest fan of the club? Or are you just talking rubbish? I think we both know it's not the first option.

Sorry, did i say he did?

 

Yeah, you kinda did

[Neil]

I think you will find football has rarely mirrored the prudency of NORMAL business.

Some of the things that have gone on in the running of football clubs has flyed in the face of normal business.... but it is what it is or was what it was , not sure which.....but not all clubs are run like Arsenal.

Its no good getting all precious about how a football club should be run.....we had one that in business eyes was run properly by HDE...and that was not to our satisfaction.

its seems like you are ****** if you do and ****** don't.

I just think he failed, but with generally good intentions.

Failed by betting our club on red or black...reckless to the highest degree, unforgivable.

Cleveland browns and their fans also say hello, we were warned.

[TRO]

 

I think you will find football has rarely mirrored the prudency of NORMAL business.

Some of the things that have gone on in the running of football clubs has flyed in the face of normal business.... but it is what it is or was what it was , not sure which.....but not all clubs are run like Arsenal.

Its no good getting all precious about how a football club should be run.....we had one that in business eyes was run properly by HDE...and that was not to our satisfaction.

its seems like you are ****** if you do and ****** don't.

I just think he failed, but with generally good intentions.

Failed by betting our club on red or black...reckless to the highest degree, unforgivable.

Cleveland browns and their fans also say hello, we were warned.

 

 

I don't buy in to your analogy.

 

I take the view he went balls out supporting all his managers rather than chasing the big prizes, albeit it could been /fair to say , a bit of both.

 

I would be interested to hear Ellis Shorts view,since he has been with Sunderland, another businessman who has trod similar boards to Lerner

[kurtsimonw]

 

 

 

 

Yeah, we're the only club in World football where the owner of the club isn't also the most passionate fan of the club. Some of the criticism of Lerner is hilarious.

And how many others branded their leg with a tattoo and made out they were?

Can you show me a quote where Lerner claims to be the biggest fan of the club? Or are you just talking rubbish? I think we both know it's not the first option.

Sorry, did i say he did?

 

Yeah, you kinda did

 

I wonder if he just takes the loss on this one or keeps fighting.

[Zatman]

He took over 06 and we have had 3 top 6 finishes, 3 trips to Wembley plus 2 other semi finals and he broke the transfer fee 3 times I think it was

 

Thats not that bad of a record on paper