The Randy Lerner thread

[ozvillafan]

An interesting discussion here - but I'm not sure what it's doing in the Lerner thread.

 

That aside, I agree with Big John here. Lambert's signings for midfield and defense - along with his formations - have put us in this situation. His failure to address the situation throughout the season doesn't stand us in good stead for next year (whichever competition we find ourselves in).

[brommy]

I agree Pelle. The overall effect of the team has been poor. That's for all to see. My point was to argue against the assumption that PL's transfer record is a failure. Our performance this season shouldn't mask the huge success of Benteke and Guzan transfers and the relative success of the Westwood transfer. Conversely, if we'd played well for most of the season, I wouldn't be claiming KEA's transfer as a success. It's hypocritical to state PL's transfer record is a failure at the same time as stating it would be even worse if it weren't for Guzan and Benteke.

6 out of 10, on balance. Not great, but hardly a transfer record 'failure'.

[brommy]

An interesting discussion here - but I'm not sure what it's doing in the Lerner thread.

Rather loosely, transfers are paid for by RL. Other than that, I agree PL's transfer record shouldn't have been slated on this particular thread. I'll now avoid counter arguing the original digression.

[Big_John_10]

If PL's transfer record for Villa is so bad, wouldn't their current collective value be less than their purchased value, especially given the poor season we are having. My conservative guesses are: KEA would be less, Bennett less, Lowton equal, Bowery equal, Vlaar equal, Holman more, Westwood more, Guzan more, Benteke more, Sylla too early to say. Not bad for a team currently in 18th. It is too simplistic to look at our current predicament and equate it directly to transfer failures.

Surely you judge a transfer by how they perform.

If we're relegated who really gives a shit if KEA can be sold for a small profit.

Players are signed to improve the club. Most of them haven't.

[Morpheus]

If PL's transfer record for Villa is so bad, wouldn't their current collective value be less than their purchased value, especially given the poor season we are having. My conservative guesses are: KEA would be less, Bennett less, Lowton equal, Bowery equal, Vlaar equal, Holman more, Westwood more, Guzan more, Benteke more, Sylla too early to say. Not bad for a team currently in 18th. It is too simplistic to look at our current predicament and equate it directly to transfer failures.

People are conveniently forgetting that this is Lambert's team now. He has build a new defence and purchased enough players for a new midfield and he has managed the team several games short of a full season.

 

We are currently in the bottom three!

Edited April 4, 2013 by Morpheus

[villan_007]

If PL's transfer record for Villa is so bad, wouldn't their current collective value be less than their purchased value, especially given the poor season we are having. My conservative guesses are: KEA would be less, Bennett less, Lowton equal, Bowery equal, Vlaar equal, Holman more, Westwood more, Guzan more, Benteke more, Sylla too early to say. Not bad for a team currently in 18th. It is too simplistic to look at our current predicament and equate it directly to transfer failures.

People are conveniently forgetting that this is Lambert's team now. He has build a new defence and purchased enough players for a new midfield and he has managed the team several games short of a full season.

 

We are currently in the bottom three!

 

But may not finish there - when the season ends then we judge.

[Morpheus]

 

If PL's transfer record for Villa is so bad, wouldn't their current collective value be less than their purchased value, especially given the poor season we are having. My conservative guesses are: KEA would be less, Bennett less, Lowton equal, Bowery equal, Vlaar equal, Holman more, Westwood more, Guzan more, Benteke more, Sylla too early to say. Not bad for a team currently in 18th. It is too simplistic to look at our current predicament and equate it directly to transfer failures.

People are conveniently forgetting that this is Lambert's team now. He has build a new defence and purchased enough players for a new midfield and he has managed the team several games short of a full season.

 

We are currently in the bottom three!

 

But may not finish there - when the season ends then we judge.

So if we stay up will you judge this season as being a success for Lambert?

[villan_007]

 

 

If PL's transfer record for Villa is so bad, wouldn't their current collective value be less than their purchased value, especially given the poor season we are having. My conservative guesses are: KEA would be less, Bennett less, Lowton equal, Bowery equal, Vlaar equal, Holman more, Westwood more, Guzan more, Benteke more, Sylla too early to say. Not bad for a team currently in 18th. It is too simplistic to look at our current predicament and equate it directly to transfer failures.

People are conveniently forgetting that this is Lambert's team now. He has build a new defence and purchased enough players for a new midfield and he has managed the team several games short of a full season.

 

We are currently in the bottom three!

 

But may not finish there - when the season ends then we judge.

So if we stay up will you judge this season as being a success for Lambert?

 

Yeah I think so morph - I always thought that this season would be about survival. IMO there wasn't enough money provided to rebuild and to be competitive.

 

We've being crying out for stability and this was the first block in place to try and achieve that. Was always going to be messy with more downs than ups.

[Morpheus]

Its interesting to see what the perception of success this season is by Villa fans and the reluctance by some to criticise Lambert no matter what records he breaks for all the wrong reasons. 

 

Villa fans trying to be realistic in judging that level of success is to be commended especially with the limited funding Lambert has had to deal with but some might also question how Swansea have gained their success without an open cheque book and the players purchased fitting a system almost immediately?

 

Lambert's tactics should therefore be at the very least questioned when over two thirds of the season he has got it so badly wrong. I find myself thinking that if we had been playing the system we are now from the start of the season would we still be in our current position?

 

He has been successful in the purchases of Benteke and to a lesser extent Westwood but has he gotten the very best out of his limited budget and intergrated his purchases successfully into a pre-prepared system?

 

That for me has been his major failure, a total lack of the right preparation for the right system to not only suit the players already at the club but those he purchased and that is reason enough to suggest that Lambert is to blame for where we currently are.

[Pelle]

Swansea haven't changed playing system 3 times in 3 years. They've worked according to a plan, unlike us. Hardly anything you can blame Lambert for. That's one of Lerner's biggest misstakes, IMO.

[Raymond]

Its interesting to see what the perception of success this season is by Villa fans and the reluctance by some to criticise Lambert no matter what records he breaks for all the wrong reasons.

Villa fans trying to be realistic in judging that level of success is to be commended especially with the limited funding Lambert has had to deal with but some might also question how Swansea have gained their success without an open cheque book and the players purchased fitting a system almost immediately?

Lambert's tactics should therefore be at the very least questioned when over two thirds of the season he has got it so badly wrong. I find myself thinking that if we had been playing the system we are now from the start of the season would we still be in our current position?

He has been successful in the purchases of Benteke and to a lesser extent Westwood but has he gotten the very best out of his limited budget and intergrated his purchases successfully into a pre-prepared system?

That for me has been his major failure, a total lack of the right preparation for the right system to not only suit the players already at the club but those he purchased and that is reason enough to suggest that Lambert is to blame for where we currently are.

I agree that PL mismanaged the players we had for a large part of the season, and it is fairly clear if we had been playing the way we are now for a majority of the season, we would be comfortably midtable.

Since halftime at Newcastle, however, we have been a genuinely better team, and if PL gets, rightly, blamed for his tactical failures through the first 2/3 of the season, he needs to get some credit for the change and how we has been playing since.

This, btw, is why I fell fairly confident about our survival chances and would be willing to keep PL on if we do get relegated. Something has clicked, and a good transfer window could see us top half next season.

[Big_John_10]

I agree that PL mismanaged the players we had for a large part of the season, and it is fairly clear if we had been playing the way we are now for a majority of the season, we would be comfortably midtable.

Which is why it's nonsense to claim keeping us up is some major achievement for him.

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

 

 

If PL's transfer record for Villa is so bad, wouldn't their current collective value be less than their purchased value, especially given the poor season we are having. My conservative guesses are: KEA would be less, Bennett less, Lowton equal, Bowery equal, Vlaar equal, Holman more, Westwood more, Guzan more, Benteke more, Sylla too early to say. Not bad for a team currently in 18th. It is too simplistic to look at our current predicament and equate it directly to transfer failures.

People are conveniently forgetting that this is Lambert's team now. He has build a new defence and purchased enough players for a new midfield and he has managed the team several games short of a full season.

 

We are currently in the bottom three!

 

But may not finish there - when the season ends then we judge.

So if we stay up will you judge this season as being a success for Lambert?

 

Yeah I think so morph - I always thought that this season would be about survival. IMO there wasn't enough money provided to rebuild and to be competitive.

 

We've being crying out for stability and this was the first block in place to try and achieve that. Was always going to be messy with more downs than ups.

Its interesting to see what the perception of success this season is by Villa fans and the reluctance by some to criticise Lambert no matter what records he breaks for all the wrong reasons. 

 

Villa fans trying to be realistic in judging that level of success is to be commended especially with the limited funding Lambert has had to deal with but some might also question how Swansea have gained their success without an open cheque book and the players purchased fitting a system almost immediately?

 

Lambert's tactics should therefore be at the very least questioned when over two thirds of the season he has got it so badly wrong. I find myself thinking that if we had been playing the system we are now from the start of the season would we still be in our current position?

 

He has been successful in the purchases of Benteke and to a lesser extent Westwood but has he gotten the very best out of his limited budget and intergrated his purchases successfully into a pre-prepared system?

 

That for me has been his major failure, a total lack of the right preparation for the right system to not only suit the players already at the club but those he purchased and that is reason enough to suggest that Lambert is to blame for where we currently are.  

 

Swansea haven't changed playing system 3 times in 3 years. They've worked according to a plan, unlike us. Hardly anything you can blame Lambert for. That's one of Lerner's biggest misstakes, IMO.

You can certainly blame Lerner for quite a lot but not team selections or choice of systems. Those choices are specifically down to the manager.

 

Its interesting to see what the perception of success this season is by Villa fans and the reluctance by some to criticise Lambert no matter what records he breaks for all the wrong reasons.

Villa fans trying to be realistic in judging that level of success is to be commended especially with the limited funding Lambert has had to deal with but some might also question how Swansea have gained their success without an open cheque book and the players purchased fitting a system almost immediately?

Lambert's tactics should therefore be at the very least questioned when over two thirds of the season he has got it so badly wrong. I find myself thinking that if we had been playing the system we are now from the start of the season would we still be in our current position?

He has been successful in the purchases of Benteke and to a lesser extent Westwood but has he gotten the very best out of his limited budget and intergrated his purchases successfully into a pre-prepared system?

That for me has been his major failure, a total lack of the right preparation for the right system to not only suit the players already at the club but those he purchased and that is reason enough to suggest that Lambert is to blame for where we currently are.

I agree that PL mismanaged the players we had for a large part of the season, and it is fairly clear if we had been playing the way we are now for a majority of the season, we would be comfortably midtable.

Since halftime at Newcastle, however, we have been a genuinely better team, and if PL gets, rightly, blamed for his tactical failures through the first 2/3 of the season, he needs to get some credit for the change and how we has been playing since.

This, btw, is why I fell fairly confident about our survival chances and would be willing to keep PL on if we do get relegated. Something has clicked, and a good transfer window could see us top half next season.

Agreed that he should gain some credit for changing the previous system and i have commented on that in other threads but it wasn't rocket science to actually see that his preferred system was a failure not only tactically but actually recognising that his newly purchased full backs didn't have the qualities to make his preferred system work.

[Pelle]

 

 

 

 

 

 

If PL's transfer record for Villa is so bad, wouldn't their current collective value be less than their purchased value, especially given the poor season we are having. My conservative guesses are: KEA would be less, Bennett less, Lowton equal, Bowery equal, Vlaar equal, Holman more, Westwood more, Guzan more, Benteke more, Sylla too early to say. Not bad for a team currently in 18th. It is too simplistic to look at our current predicament and equate it directly to transfer failures.

People are conveniently forgetting that this is Lambert's team now. He has build a new defence and purchased enough players for a new midfield and he has managed the team several games short of a full season.

 

We are currently in the bottom three!

 

But may not finish there - when the season ends then we judge.

So if we stay up will you judge this season as being a success for Lambert?

 

Yeah I think so morph - I always thought that this season would be about survival. IMO there wasn't enough money provided to rebuild and to be competitive.

 

We've being crying out for stability and this was the first block in place to try and achieve that. Was always going to be messy with more downs than ups.

Its interesting to see what the perception of success this season is by Villa fans and the reluctance by some to criticise Lambert no matter what records he breaks for all the wrong reasons. 

 

Villa fans trying to be realistic in judging that level of success is to be commended especially with the limited funding Lambert has had to deal with but some might also question how Swansea have gained their success without an open cheque book and the players purchased fitting a system almost immediately?

 

Lambert's tactics should therefore be at the very least questioned when over two thirds of the season he has got it so badly wrong. I find myself thinking that if we had been playing the system we are now from the start of the season would we still be in our current position?

 

He has been successful in the purchases of Benteke and to a lesser extent Westwood but has he gotten the very best out of his limited budget and intergrated his purchases successfully into a pre-prepared system?

 

That for me has been his major failure, a total lack of the right preparation for the right system to not only suit the players already at the club but those he purchased and that is reason enough to suggest that Lambert is to blame for where we currently are.  

 

Swansea haven't changed playing system 3 times in 3 years. They've worked according to a plan, unlike us. Hardly anything you can blame Lambert for. That's one of Lerner's biggest misstakes, IMO.

You can certainly blame Lerner for quite a lot but not team selections or choice of systems. Those choices are specifically down to the manager.

 

> 

Its interesting to see what the perception of success this season is by Villa fans and the reluctance by some to criticise Lambert no matter what records he breaks for all the wrong reasons.

Villa fans trying to be realistic in judging that level of success is to be commended especially with the limited funding Lambert has had to deal with but some might also question how Swansea have gained their success without an open cheque book and the players purchased fitting a system almost immediately?

Lambert's tactics should therefore be at the very least questioned when over two thirds of the season he has got it so badly wrong. I find myself thinking that if we had been playing the system we are now from the start of the season would we still be in our current position?

He has been successful in the purchases of Benteke and to a lesser extent Westwood but has he gotten the very best out of his limited budget and intergrated his purchases successfully into a pre-prepared system?

That for me has been his major failure, a total lack of the right preparation for the right system to not only suit the players already at the club but those he purchased and that is reason enough to suggest that Lambert is to blame for where we currently are.

I agree that PL mismanaged the players we had for a large part of the season, and it is fairly clear if we had been playing the way we are now for a majority of the season, we would be comfortably midtable.

Since halftime at Newcastle, however, we have been a genuinely better team, and if PL gets, rightly, blamed for his tactical failures through the first 2/3 of the season, he needs to get some credit for the change and how we has been playing since.

This, btw, is why I fell fairly confident about our survival chances and would be willing to keep PL on if we do get relegated. Something has clicked, and a good transfer window could see us top half next season.

Agreed that he should gain some credit for changing the previous system and i have commented on that in other threads but it wasn't rocket science to actually see that his preferred system was a failure not only tactically but actually recognising that his newly purchased full backs didn't have the qualities to make his preferred system work.

 

 

I don't blame him for the teams and systems the managers chose per se, but I do blame him for chosing very different type of managers with very differebt playing systems and styles every time we've changed managers. From old school MON, to more continental GH, to ultra defensive and a bit old school AML to one who I hope and think will be the best manager with a very experimental style.

[Brumerican]

Mistakes have been made . The important thing is that in the future those mistakes are not repeated . It would be nice if all the relentless , repetitive blamestorming was put aside as it achieves absolutely nothing . I have no idea what the future holds for Villa but I do know that crying about the same shit every **** day like a petulant kid is not going to help matters.

[Daniel1Avfc]

Mistakes have been made . The important thing is that in the future those mistakes are not repeated . It would be nice if all the relentless , repetitive blamestorming was put aside as it achieves absolutely nothing . I have no idea what the future holds for Villa but I do know that crying about the same shit every **** day like a petulant kid is not going to help matters.

LERNER OUT! LERNER OUT! LERNER OUT!        

[ciggiesnbeer]

Not to depress people too much but its fairly typical for teams that get relegated to have a goalkeeper and striker who grab the attention and look good right?

 

Yakubu & Robson, Fletcher & Hennessey spring to mind.

[Zatman]

from the Guardian

 

 

Accounts for the year to 31 May 2012

Ownership: Owned by Randy Lerner, via Reform Acquisitions LLC, a USA company

Turnover: 9th in league, £80m (down from £92m in 2011)

Gate and matchday: £20m

TV and broadcasting: £47m

Commercial: £14m

Wage bill: 7th, £70m (down from £83m)

Wages as proportion of turnover: 87.5%

Loss before tax: £18m (following £54m loss last year)

Net debt: £122m

Interest payable: £7m

Highest-paid director: £256,000 to unnamed director (Paul Faulkner is the chief executive)

State they're in:

Exceptional among the US buyers, Randy Lerner has spent hugely on Villa – in equity and loans, now at £107m – yet his promising tenure has declined. Lerner has been financially hit by the banking crisis, having sold his MBNA company in return for Bank of America shares, and he is trying to cut back on overspending and losses. Ashley Young, Gareth Barry, James Milner and Stewart Downing, four England internationals, are now memories; Villa's accounts state Paul Lambert's "youthful, highly motivated first-team squad … will prove eminently sustainable in the long term." That remains to be seen, and is not a statement of grand ambition.

[Big_John_10]

Wage bill: 7th, £70m (down from £83m)

Wages as proportion of turnover: 87.5%

This is the worrying thing. Wages down and yet in terms of our income it's still a high percentage.

I'm sure I read that Norwich and Sunderland have now jumped above us in terms of commercial revenue, it wouldn't surprise me it one or two more clubs do after this season.

Also finishing low in the league this year means a big difference in money coming into the club through the new tv deal.

Ultimately just shows what a shit job this man has done since becoming our owner.

[PaulC]

from the Guardian

 

 

Accounts for the year to 31 May 2012

Ownership: Owned by Randy Lerner, via Reform Acquisitions LLC, a USA company

Turnover: 9th in league, £80m (down from £92m in 2011)

Gate and matchday: £20m

TV and broadcasting: £47m

Commercial: £14m

Wage bill: 7th, £70m (down from £83m)

Wages as proportion of turnover: 87.5%

Loss before tax: £18m (following £54m loss last year)

Net debt: £122m

Interest payable: £7m

Highest-paid director: £256,000 to unnamed director (Paul Faulkner is the chief executive)

State they're in:

Exceptional among the US buyers, Randy Lerner has spent hugely on Villa – in equity and loans, now at £107m – yet his promising tenure has declined. Lerner has been financially hit by the banking crisis, having sold his MBNA company in return for Bank of America shares, and he is trying to cut back on overspending and losses. Ashley Young, Gareth Barry, James Milner and Stewart Downing, four England internationals, are now memories; Villa's accounts state Paul Lambert's "youthful, highly motivated first-team squad … will prove eminently sustainable in the long term." That remains to be seen, and is not a statement of grand ambition.

Didn't he sell the Cleveland browns for 1billion. That 87.5% wages to turnover is far too high. New legislation is being brought in anyway so we have to get it down.