The Randy Lerner thread

[irreverentad]

I have to say I was one of the people who supports MON, and to some extent I still do. But Mazrim has put the best and most convincing argument against MON I have read on the forum so far. Points well made, but I want to know how do you know Shorey was bought on the advice of Sidwell, that seems a bit strange, and finally, other then Bent what strikers should MON have spent the money on. Were there any others of Bents calibre that we could have got?

As of January 09 there were roughly 7 billion better strikers than Emile Heskey.

I agree, I dont rate Heskey and think he is the one of the worst players to ever pull on the famous claret and blue shirt. But who was available, would of come and wouldnt of cost more than 20 million at the time.

Jo, Defoe, Keane, Rodallega, Bellamy, Scott Sinclair all moved in that window. I'd take all of them above Heskey.

[briny_ear]

I really can't imagine why people are spending their days arguing about whether MON should have got us higher than 6th. For what it's worth, I think it's disappointing he didn't get us higher in his two best seasons but it's COMPLETELY irrelevant.

First of all, even if we had got to fourth, there is no way we could have sustained a top 4 position because Lerner simply didn't have the resources to keep us there - and anyone who thinks it doesn't require sustained spending season after season is just living in dreamland. Lerner's business model was complete crap and I suspect that MON jumped ship when he realised that.

The second point is that it matters little whether we could have got to a position higher than 6th two or three seasons ago because the situation facing us NOW is that the club is drifting along with an alarming lack of direction, and an unadventurous and unattractive approach to football.

The main issue for us now is how we are going to sustain ourselves as a premier league club - forget about 6th or higher.

Those are the issues people should be facing up to in a thread about Randy Lerner.

I suspect it's too painful for many to confront, so people are retreating into fantasising about the past and what might have been.

[Voinjama]

I have to say I was one of the people who supports MON, and to some extent I still do. But Mazrim has put the best and most convincing argument against MON I have read on the forum so far. Points well made, but I want to know how do you know Shorey was bought on the advice of Sidwell, that seems a bit strange, and finally, other then Bent what strikers should MON have spent the money on. Were there any others of Bents calibre that we could have got?

As of January 09 there were roughly 7 billion better strikers than Emile Heskey.

I agree, I dont rate Heskey and think he is the one of the worst players to ever pull on the famous claret and blue shirt. But who was available, would of come and wouldnt of cost more than 20 million at the time.

Jo, Defoe, Keane, Rodallega, Bellamy, Scott Sinclair all moved in that window. I'd take all of them above Heskey.

I am not sure what standard Scott Sinclair was back in 2008, I didnt hear about him until last season, but the rest are deifinitely better, but would they of come. Keane went to Liverpool that summer, to play for the club he supported and they were champions league regulars at the time. Even though that didnt work out, I am not sure he would of chosen villa head of a return to spurs. Rodallega is slightly better than Heskey, but he is nowhere near good enough to of fired us to champions football in 2008/09, same with Jo. But yes they are all better than Heskey.

[Voinjama]

I really can't imagine why people are spending their days arguing about whether MON should have got us higher than 6th. For what it's worth, I think it's disappointing he didn't get us higher in his two best seasons but it's COMPLETELY irrelevant.

First of all, even if we had got to fourth, there is no way we could have sustained a top 4 position because Lerner simply didn't have the resources to keep us there - and anyone who thinks it doesn't require sustained spending season after season is just living in dreamland. Lerner's business model was complete crap and I suspect that MON jumped ship when he realised that.

The second point is that it matters little whether we could have got to a position higher than 6th two or three seasons ago because the situation facing us NOW is that the club is drifting along with an alarming lack of direction, and an unadventurous and unattractive approach to football.

The main issue for us now is how we are going to sustain ourselves as a premier league club - forget about 6th or higher.

Those are the issues people should be facing up to in a thread about Randy Lerner.

I suspect it's too painful for many to confront, so people are retreating into fantasising about the past and what might have been.

To some extent I agree, what happens in the past is irrelevant. But we need to see the mistakes that were made in 2008, 2009 etc, which is why the club is in its current position on the pitch and off it (financially). The club is in the position it is now because of mistakes that were made then. I just saw an exciting argument between Mazrim and big john and decided to enter it.

[Mazrim]

Sorry briny but I'm affraid it's very relevant.

Firstly, because of how we are where we are now, and I agree about your points regarding lack of long term plans etc and it's where I'm most critical of Lerner. Despite what some clowns may think, I'm very critical of him.

Secondly, because I'm sick of hearing about how O'Neill did great and it's all Lerner's fault, which is bollocks when you consider whatever plan Randy did have was based around backing MON to the hilt. Ultimately it is Randy's fault because he should have stopped his spending to cover his own mistakes long before. As soon as the well went dry and some accounting had to be done, MON didn't fancy it. What a hero.

Now, shall we go back to how many different ways we can say McLeish is shit?

What needs to be done is quite simple. McLeish needs to go and soon and get a young manager in with some idea about how the game should be played, who doesn't pull his pants down for so called "elite" clubs and also appoint a director (or two) with some sort of footballing nous.

My bet would be Brendan Rodgers.

But I fear we're stuck with McLeish for the moment. Hopefully Randy will see sense and cut his losses though before it's too late or any money is given to McLeish to spend.

If I was Lerner I would also be looking for buyers and I hope that's happening.

[briny_ear]

Sorry, Voinjama, but this is just more of the same denial.

We are in the position we are in now because our chairman is disinvesting in the club (rather ineptly as it turns out) and we have had crap managers for the past two seasons. Anyone trying to blame MON or the "mistakes of the past" for the timid way we played against Arsenal - seeemingly as part of the current manager's gameplan - is just way off beam.

[Mazrim]

Sorry, Voinjama, but this is just more of the same denial.

We are in the position we are in now because our chairman is disinvesting in the club (rather ineptly as it turns out) and we have had crap managers for the past two seasons. Anyone trying to blame MON or the "mistakes of the past" for the timid way we played against Arsenal - seeemingly as part of the current manager's gameplan - is just way off beam.

I dont recall anybody blaming O'Neill for how we played against Arsenal.

Would you like to have your own argument?

[Voinjama]

Sorry, Voinjama, but this is just more of the same denial.

We are in the position we are in now because our chairman is disinvesting in the club (rather ineptly as it turns out) and we have had crap managers for the past two seasons. Anyone trying to blame MON or the "mistakes of the past" for the timid way we played against Arsenal - seeemingly as part of the current manager's gameplan - is just way off beam.

Not blaming MON for they we played against Arsenal. But it could be argued that he is to blame for there now being very litttle/no money at the club. He could be blamed for the players on high wages who are difficult to shift.

Let me put it like this, most other people are either blaming either MON or Randy, I think it is a little bit of both of them. (and heskey)

[Mazrim]

It's definitely a mix of Randy and MON. I just dont want that little shit getting away with murder like he does with his imbecile mates on MotD or whatever.

[Harry]

Sorry briny but I'm affraid it's very relevant.

Firstly, because of how we are where we are now, and I agree about your points regarding lack of long term plans etc and it's where I'm most critical of Lerner. Despite what some clowns may think, I'm very critical of him.

Secondly, because I'm sick of hearing about how O'Neill did great and it's all Lerner's fault, which is bollocks when you consider whatever plan Randy did have was based around backing MON to the hilt. Ultimately it is Randy's fault because he should have stopped his spending to cover his own mistakes long before. As soon as the well went dry and some accounting had to be done, MON didn't fancy it. What a hero.

Now, shall we go back to how many different ways we can say McLeish is shit?

What needs to be done is quite simple. McLeish needs to go and soon and get a young manager in with some idea about how the game should be played, who doesn't pull his pants down for so called "elite" clubs and also appoint a director (or two) with some sort of footballing nous.

My bet would be Brendan Rodgers.

But I fear we're stuck with McLeish for the moment. Hopefully Randy will see sense and cut his losses though before it's too late or any money is given to McLeish to spend.

If I was Lerner I would also be looking for buyers and I hope that's happening.

Masrim some great posts in the last few pages, I don't think you have said a single thing I disagree with. I can feel your frustration and its shared by so very many Villa fans including myself.

[Zatman]

To keep claiming MON should have finished higher is just stupid. How can anyone look at how much money it took city to finish 4th and claim we did enough?

but Everton finished 4th, and also outperformed MON's Villa in all but one season

[Mantis]

Why do people get so tetchy over MON? Nobody is saying he's the only reason for our problems. He certainly isn't. However, along with Randy and McLeish he is partly to blame for the position we're in.

Mantis, didn't you miss Houllier off your list of culprits? :winkold:

I don't see him as one of the culprits in the first place. At this moment in the time the situation is this: shit football (McLeish) shit results (McLeish) shit finances (Randy) shit players on high wages which in turn adds to our financial woes (Randy/MON).

If this were a year ago then yes, Houllier would be a culprit as the poor results last season for mainly down to him.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Mazrim, some excellent posts!

I'll just add that this idea that not enough was spent is utter nonsense! In 09/10 we had a shockingly bad home record. If MON could have set us up better at home then just a minor improvement in our home results would have seen us into 4th place. Even just a moderate improvement (three more wins at VP) would have tipped us into fourth spot and it would have meant we'd have had the SIXTH best home record.

That's right - the sixth best instead of twelth - the position we were SUPPOSED to be according to the bizzare wages = relative position argument.

I sometimes wonder how much more money people think Randy needed to throw at it for MON to have achieved fourth? £20M? £30M? £50M? More? What is the exact price for three more wins at home!?

[villadude]

Mazrim has nailed it as far as I'm concerned, good posts mate!

[Houlston]

First of all, even if we had got to fourth, there is no way we could have sustained a top 4 position because Lerner simply didn't have the resources to keep us there .

Sorry but simply, like hardly anyone doesnt, you dont know this. You have no idea about what money would have been available or what extra investment would have been made had we achieved this 4th spot.

[Big_John_10]

As soon as the well went dry and some accounting had to be done, MON didn't fancy it. What a hero.

Prime example of buying the laughable pr shit.

I made the point and so did briny but it's easier to ignore it and say great post because MON was called pube head.

If we had got 4th with MON would it have made that much difference? Our wage bill would have had to increase to compete in the champions league but would the revenue increase been enough? And would we have been able to spend enough fighting off spurs and city the following year? And if we increased wages and failed to get 4th the following year where would that have left us?

Complaining about Mon finishing 6th and still blaming him for our issues now is pathetic. How can people say good post yet ignore the fact he left a villa squad that achieved the best season the club had had in years?

I'll say it again. Go and have a look at the money spurs and city spent during the first 12 months MoN was here.

Look at the browns, there is only one man who is a problem when it comes to sports teams.

[markavfc40]

The bottom line for me in this Mon/Lerner debate is whether or not you consider an 80mill net spend in 4 years ( 60 mill if you include the sale of Milner ) and the 8th/6th/6th/6th highest wage bill a price worth paying taking a club that had just finished 16th to three top 6 finishes on the spin, a couple of seasons flirting with the top 4 and a couple of very good cup runs. Randy clearly didn't and therefore gave O'Neill the flick and replaced him with Houllier who spent a further 30mill in securing a 9th place finish after being in and around the relegation zone for 5 months and now McLeish who has made a profit of 20mill+ on transfers, reduced the wage bill and has us sitting in 15th place playing dour football in front of dwindling crowds.

You reap what you sow I guess.

[Houlston]

Randy clearly didn't and therefore gave O'Neill the flick

Did he?

[Mantis]

gave O'Neill the flick.

That's news to me.

[Voinjama]

Is it really true that Shorey was only signed because Sidwell recommended him to MON? Shocking news if true. Is there a source?