Richard Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 On a par with Ellis , certainly no better and in terms of the football club arguably worse Total PFE. Ellis relegated us to the 3rd division and dismantled the European Cup winning team leading to relegation. What does PFE mean? I've got Pfizer, Polarized Fractal Efficiency and Potential Future Exposure so far.posting for effect , that is making a comment that you don't actually believe in just for effect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 We're not the same stature as Wigan at all. What a pathetic thing to say about a club the size of Aston Villa. Ellis sold us no problem when it was in vogue and there was appetite for Premier League clubs. Now the whole environment in which they operate has changed. I agree there is more money than ever but the climate is totally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I think Lerner is far worse than Ellis, personally. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 And now we are a club the same stature as Wigan thanks to Lerner messing it up. Ellis was noway good not in the slightest, yet the club was an attractive proposition when he came to sell it and he sold it no problems. Are we an attractive proposition now? And there's more money in the game than ever before That has more to do with clubs getting the majority of income from TV rights rather than gates now. Lerner is defiantly better than Ellis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 **** sake. lerner worse than ellis is such a bullshit statement. Talk about going OTT because we're currently doing poorly. Yes Lerner's plan has not worked out, but if there's no sale we were heading only one way under that miserly self aggrandising rocket polisher. Lerner had a go, gave us some hope for a while but then ran out of steam when he realised he couldn't compete sufficiently. The past couple of years have been a bit depressing but that does not make him worse than Ellis' perpetual refusals to show ambition when we needed it in the past, not to mention Randy actually put his own money in sufficiently and you'd have to be rather myopic to believe Lerner did not have the best intentions for the club and he did seem to genuinely care. There was genuine feel good vibes around the club for 4 years. Times are fallow now and Lerner selling up is best for all involved, but let's not re-write history and deify that octogenarian prick. Lerner had a go, it didn't work out, now time to sell. That's it. Good post. Agree totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Fans can only judge on their experience and if they are too young to remember the 80s than Ellis is the better owner. Yes we've seen us flirt with relegation under Ellis but each time the team bounced back and finished top 6. We've seen attempts at winning the league as well as 2 League Cups and an FA Cup final. This all without being a Billionaire and being able to spend his own money. Yes near the end we were in decline for one season after finishing 6th the season before that. He knew this and sold the club. So since the Premier League begin as far as experiences go the last 3 have certainly been the worse as a Villa fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 On a par with Ellis , certainly no better and in terms of the football club arguably worse Total PFE. Ellis relegated us to the 3rd division and dismantled the European Cup winning team leading to relegation. It is not PFE (imo) Lerner has done more long term damage. In a time when the league is on TV's across the world, we are now damaged goods. Yes Ellis did get us relegated, but we could bounce back unharmed. Lerner - in full view of the world - has turned us into 'Wigan' and a very unattractive prospect. That is without the relegation battles. We could be a club of the same stature as Liverpool if it wasn't for Ellis messing things up in the 80s. He messed things up several times, because he was small-minded, petty and stingy, and that with the Club's money, mind you, never his own. But there was always money there for his salary. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 And now we are a club the same stature as Wigan thanks to Lerner messing it up. Ellis was noway good not in the slightest, yet the club was an attractive proposition when he came to sell it and he sold it no problems. Are we an attractive proposition now? And there's more money in the game than ever before Things were so bad at the Club when Ellis sold that, if he had not done so, I suspect we may well have crashed down through the divisions with him remaining in charge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 And now we are a club the same stature as Wigan thanks to Lerner messing it up. Ellis was noway good not in the slightest, yet the club was an attractive proposition when he came to sell it and he sold it no problems. Are we an attractive proposition now? And there's more money in the game than ever before Things were so bad at the Club when Ellis sold that, if he had not done so, I suspect we may well have crashed down through the divisions with him remaining in charge. They were bad but no worse than now. We never really looked like going down that year and we still had players like Laurson, Mellberg, Barry, Bouma, Cahill in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 And now we are a club the same stature as Wigan thanks to Lerner messing it up. Ellis was noway good not in the slightest, yet the club was an attractive proposition when he came to sell it and he sold it no problems. Are we an attractive proposition now? And there's more money in the game than ever before Things were so bad at the Club when Ellis sold that, if he had not done so, I suspect we may well have crashed down through the divisions with him remaining in charge. They were bad but no worse than now. We never really looked like going down that year and we still had players like Laurson, Mellberg, Barry, Bouma, Cahill in the team. I know where you are coming from, being a relatively recent supporter (your previous post) and I can understand how you feel. But I disagree about the end of Ellis's tenure, I felt that we were in a downward spiral at that stage that would end in relegation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 And now we are a club the same stature as Wigan thanks to Lerner messing it up. Ellis was noway good not in the slightest, yet the club was an attractive proposition when he came to sell it and he sold it no problems. Are we an attractive proposition now? And there's more money in the game than ever before Things were so bad at the Club when Ellis sold that, if he had not done so, I suspect we may well have crashed down through the divisions with him remaining in charge. They were bad but no worse than now. We never really looked like going down that year and we still had players like Laurson, Mellberg, Barry, Bouma, Cahill in the team. I felt that we were in a downward spiral at that stage that would end in relegation. Sounds familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Fans can only judge on their experience and if they are too young to remember the 80s than Ellis is the better owner. Yes we've seen us flirt with relegation under Ellis but each time the team bounced back and finished top 6. We've seen attempts at winning the league as well as 2 League Cups and an FA Cup final. This all without being a Billionaire and being able to spend his own money. Yes near the end we were in decline for one season after finishing 6th the season before that. He knew this and sold the club. So since the Premier League begin as far as experiences go the last 3 have certainly been the worse as a Villa fan. You're harking back to days when clubs could get promoted and challenge for the league; or when there wasn't such a monopoly at the top amongst a handful of clubs. They've owned this club under different circumstances. Football wasn't invented when the PL started and this club has a history which fans are rightly proud of, but then ignore when it suits them. Ellis was part and parcel of the club's darkest days. Better not sing: "Have you ever won the European Cup" to other clubs unless you were born to witness it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Fans can only judge on their experience and if they are too young to remember the 80s than Ellis is the better owner. Yes we've seen us flirt with relegation under Ellis but each time the team bounced back and finished top 6. We've seen attempts at winning the league as well as 2 League Cups and an FA Cup final. This all without being a Billionaire and being able to spend his own money. Yes near the end we were in decline for one season after finishing 6th the season before that. He knew this and sold the club. So since the Premier League begin as far as experiences go the last 3 have certainly been the worse as a Villa fan. You're harking back to days when clubs could get promoted and challenge for the league; or when there wasn't such a monopoly at the top amongst a handful of clubs. They've owned this club under different circumstances. Football wasn't invented when the PL started and this club has a history which fans are rightly proud of, but then ignore when it suits them. Ellis was part and parcel of the club's darkest days. Better not sing: "Have you ever won the European Cup" to other clubs unless you were born to witness it. It's hard to relate to the dark days in the 80s if we weren't around to experience it. That goes for good times and winning the European Cup also. I can never hold the same contempt for Ellis as fans who experienced the 80s the same way Withe can never be my hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 And now we are a club the same stature as Wigan thanks to Lerner messing it up. Ellis was noway good not in the slightest, yet the club was an attractive proposition when he came to sell it and he sold it no problems. Are we an attractive proposition now? And there's more money in the game than ever before Things were so bad at the Club when Ellis sold that, if he had not done so, I suspect we may well have crashed down through the divisions with him remaining in charge. They were bad but no worse than now. We never really looked like going down that year and we still had players like Laurson, Mellberg, Barry, Bouma, Cahill in the team. I felt that we were in a downward spiral at that stage that would end in relegation. Sounds familiar. True indeed, but I can only say that I do not feel the same despair now that I was feeling just before Ellis sold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 And now we are a club the same stature as Wigan thanks to Lerner messing it up. Ellis was noway good not in the slightest, yet the club was an attractive proposition when he came to sell it and he sold it no problems. Are we an attractive proposition now? And there's more money in the game than ever beforeThings were so bad at the Club when Ellis sold that, if he had not done so, I suspect we may well have crashed down through the divisions with him remaining in charge.They were bad but no worse than now. We never really looked like going down that year and we still had players like Laurson, Mellberg, Barry, Bouma, Cahill in the team.I felt that we were in a downward spiral at that stage that would end in relegation. Sounds familiar. True indeed, but I can only say that I do not feel the same despair now that I was feeling just before Ellis sold up. Is that because you are confident we will be sold or you feel the squad is more than capable of staying up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 It seems some people base Lerner being a worse owner than Ellis on the fact they are too young to remember how bad he was. By that token I'd only expect kids under 4 to hate Lerner because under him we had 3 top 6 finishes brushed with the top 4. Went to a cup final and a semi and was extremely unlucky both times. We also won at Old Trafford for the first time. It's easy now after 3 bad seasons to moan but look at it all not just the bad bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I just find the whole Lerner v Ellis argument utterly pointless 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 It seems some people base Lerner being a worse owner than Ellis on the fact they are too young to remember how bad he was. By that token I'd only expect kids under 4 to hate Lerner because under him we had 3 top 6 finishes brushed with the top 4. Went to a cup final and a semi and was extremely unlucky both times. We also won at Old Trafford for the first time. It's easy now after 3 bad seasons to moan but look at it all not just the bad bit. How many top 6 finishes under Ellis? Plus two League cups and a FA Cup final. Not to mention the great European nights in the early and mid 90s. Supporting Villa in the 90s was a lot better than supporting them now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Just thought I'd pop in and say hi. I've got nothing to contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Ellis = Crap owner Lerner = Crap owner Parsing out the degrees of crapness seems like a fruitless pursuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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