The Randy Lerner thread

[roadoftrinity]

It's Randy's money, the buck stops with him. O'Neill was nothing more than an employee, and as owner, seemingly gave him carte blanche to spend what he likes. That's the sign of a bad owner, and a shit businessman.

Bollocks, the blame can't be pined solely on Randy's door. He was backing his manager on the players his manager needed to get the club into the Champions League, we didn't get there as the players weren't good enough and for other reasons. Is that a bad owner that backs his manager?

We always knew Randy's plan was to make us self financing, he has **** up at times, but the blame is completely his and now he we are having to make changes to make us self financing and we just have to accept it.

[Bazdavies79]

Or an ambitious owner trying to wake a sleeping giant by appointing and backing a well respected manager.

[VillaRoy]

So his excellency the Qatari Prime Minister with the worlds longest name still hasn't taken over us? In Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani we trust!

[John_Lerwill]

John,

... We are no longer the club you remember just as Forest are no longer the club a number of their fans remember and even to some extents Liverpool are no longer the club they were.

Well, Stan, you are right that it's not the same club - you think I don't know that? But in the underlying issues we have to differ once more. One of the problems with people brought up in the past 40 years is that they cannot equate to a life without TV, health and safety and all the media hype that tends to make the brain go a little spongy.

I like to cling onto things of value. Including the Villa as it was and could be.

I am proud to say (even though I worked as a senior technician and also manager in IT for 40 years) I don't use a mobile except on rare occasions and still only watch TV for documentaries and news. Sometimes I might watch a film if it seems to be worth watching. On the other hand I was one of the first to use the Internet and first set up my website in 1998, so I do use what is useful.

There is a world of real values that still exists, not the glossy gimme world that has pervaded, sadly, for the last 30 years at least. As it also exists in football now.

There will be a general return to real values - and pretty soon.

[NeilS]

So his excellency the Qatari Prime Minister with the worlds longest name still hasn't taken over us? In Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani we trust!

Yeah, that name might prove tricky to incorporate into a terrace chant. it doesn't quite roll off the tongue as easily as "One Randy Lerner".

[stanthemanisgod]

John,

That's admirable but I dont see how it's relevant to the situation of the club now.

I use technology that makes my life easier, I have one device that acts as a phone, camera, music library and internet web browser. Yes I expect things quicker than people of an older generation might but that's because the technology is in place to make that a possibility. I can easily turn your argument and say that about people who cant imagine a life without electricity and running water, or a time when cars were widely unadffordable, or before a democratic government.

History is a useful tool to tell us about how things were and why things happened the way they did, and 30 years ago Villa were in a postion to field a side strong enough to win the league here and then win the European Cup. But because circumstances allowed it then does not mean we have a devine right to expect it now.

Saddly for those like me that have never had to work in an office without e-mail, or had to rely on the post to receive important information we cant imagine what life would be like without these things.

Equally we can barely (if at all) remember supporting the club before the advent of the Premier League and if I cant at 28 (pretty much past it in terms of footballers) then how do you think we are regarded by those inside the game? by the players we might want to attract to play for us?

Unfortunately memories are short in the game and something we won 30 years ago will not make us a house hold name to the players we want to attract now.

We are not a sleeping giant in fact we're barely a big club in the PL now, there are plenty of teams that attract as many if not more fans to their grounds, in fact a number of Championship clubs are giving us a run for our money this season.

So on that basis Randy is doing all he can imo, and if we want more on a more consitant basis in the current climate (and it seems most of us do) then we need a man with money to burn.

[Mantis]

And it goes on and on. Basically, when anything bad happens people will always twist it so that Randy is to blame.

Twist what?

He's the boss, he has the final say on all money spent and he makes the decisions on who will become the manager.

I'm afraid part of being the boss is taking responsibility for making the wrong decisions.

Well for example, you won't seem to accept that MON is just as much if not more to blame than Randy for the finances going out of control.

It's Randy's money, the buck stops with him. O'Neill was nothing more than an employee, and as owner, seemingly gave him carte blanche to spend what he likes. That's the sign of a bad owner, and a shit businessman.

An owner can't be expected to know which purchases would be worthwhile and which wouldn't. Do you really think MON said to "I'm gonna buy Beye and leave him on the bench the entire season"?

The thing is, when Randy finally step in, and MON resigned, he was roundly criticised on here for not backing the manager.

[GarethRDR]

Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani

Yeah, that name might prove tricky to incorporate into a terrace chant.

In that case, I'd recommend shortening his name to "Hammy 2 bins."

[Risso]

And it goes on and on. Basically, when anything bad happens people will always twist it so that Randy is to blame.

Twist what?

He's the boss, he has the final say on all money spent and he makes the decisions on who will become the manager.

I'm afraid part of being the boss is taking responsibility for making the wrong decisions.

Well for example, you won't seem to accept that MON is just as much if not more to blame than Randy for the finances going out of control.

It's Randy's money, the buck stops with him. O'Neill was nothing more than an employee, and as owner, seemingly gave him carte blanche to spend what he likes. That's the sign of a bad owner, and a shit businessman.

An owner can't be expected to know which purchases would be worthwhile and which wouldn't. Do you really think MON said to "I'm gonna buy Beye and leave him on the bench the entire season"?

Well, as the saying goes, "a fool and his money are soon parted."

[thetrees]

Back on topic.

Mr Lerner left on Wednesday afternoon.......

[Mantis]

Yes, Randy was a bit of a fool to give MON such a free reign. However, we all know MON is a control freak and wouldn't have accepted anything less anyway. I guess the lesson here is that we probably could've done better with a better manager.

[makouns_grin]

Probably jetted off to find that perfect owner Villa fans KNOW exists.

[briny_ear]

The thing is, when Randy finally step in, and MON resigned, he was roundly criticised on here for not backing the manager.

Must say I don't recall that bit - the overriding sentiment on here was anti-MON, almost regarding him as a traitor, with Randy cast as the innocent victim who had his money spunked away by a reckless manager.

And a brave few seem to be sticking to that view even though it has become increasingly apparent that Lerner/Faulkner's judgement has been suspect throughout their stewardship of Villa.

And in denial of the obvious point that any properly functioning organisation needs to monitor and approve its spending separate from the managers who actually do the spending. If Lerner wasn't doing that, it truly was a rubbish operation.

[Mantis]

The thing is, when Randy finally step in, and MON resigned, he was roundly criticised on here for not backing the manager.

Must say I don't recall that bit - the overriding sentiment on here was anti-MON, almost regarding him as a traitor, with Randy cast as the innocent victim who had his money spunked away by a reckless manager.

And a brave few seem to be sticking to that view even though it has become increasingly apparent that Lerner/Faulkner's judgement has been suspect throughout their stewardship of Villa.

And in denial of the obvious point that any properly functioning organisation needs to monitor and approve its spending separate from the managers who actually do the spending. If Lerner wasn't doing that, it truly was a rubbish operation.

Strange, I don't recall much anti-MON resentment on here when he threw his toys out of the pram.

[Big_John_10]

Well for example, you won't seem to accept that MON is just as much if not more to blame than Randy for the finances going out of control.

Ridiculous.

Mon wasted some money like every manager but the issue we had wasn't just about money spent. Our problem was the money spent in relation to money coming in and I don't know how anyone can argue that MON should be on top of that more than the owner.

After training should MON have popped over to the ticket office and sorted out pricing, corporate seats and advertising for match day deals? Should he then have gone over to the merchandising department and sorted out our national and international sales. Then I guess he'll ring up the sponsors and negotiate a new deal and then contact sky about how much we're getting.

Then after sorting that out he should have sat down and forecast future incomings to the club.

There is one man who should know more than anyone else the incoming and outgoing of money at this club and that man is the owner. If its not then it's another reason to show randy as a poor owner making poor decisions.

[Big_John_10]

Yes, Randy was a bit of a fool to give MON such a free reign. However, we all know MON is a control freak and wouldn't have accepted anything less anyway. I guess the lesson here is that we probably could've done better with a better manager.

So mon turned down the Leeds job to stay loyal to Leicester and only left Celtic to look after his ill wife yet he clearly would have quit if randy had limited the wages he could offer to sidwell and beye.

Yes clearly this is a fact going by his managerial history.

Who is twisting things now?

[Mantis]

Well for example, you won't seem to accept that MON is just as much if not more to blame than Randy for the finances going out of control.

Ridiculous.

Mon wasted some money like every manager but the issue we had wasn't just about money spent. Our problem was the money spent in relation to money coming in and I don't know how anyone can argue that MON should be on top of that more than the owner.

After training should MON have popped over to the ticket office and sorted out pricing, corporate seats and advertising for match day deals? Should he then have gone over to the merchandising department and sorted out our national and international sales. Then I guess he'll ring up the sponsors and negotiate a new deal and then contact sky about how much we're getting.

Then after sorting that out he should have sat down and forecast future incomings to the club.

There is one man who should know more than anyone else the incoming and outgoing of money at this club and that man is the owner. If its not then it's another reason to show randy as a poor owner making poor decisions.

I actually never said that. Of course Randy shouldn't have given MON such a free reign, but MON wouldn't work under any conditions except his own. When Randy finally tried to sort the problem out, MON quit, which you also blamed Randy for.

So in other words, Randy's to blame for letting the finances spiral out of control, but when he tries to address that problem and the manager quits, he's also to blame for that too?

[Big_John_10]

but MON wouldn't work under any conditions except his own. When Randy finally tried to sort the problem out, MON quit

Sorry, how do you know what conditions MON would work in? The only way MoN would stay is if he could screw the club up?

And you truly believe an independent tribunal who heard all the facts awarded a large compensation package to Mon because he refused to sort out the finances and just quit? Really?

[Mantis]

but MON wouldn't work under any conditions except his own. When Randy finally tried to sort the problem out, MON quit

Sorry, how do you know what conditions MON would work in? The only way MoN would stay is if he could screw the club up?

And you truly believe an independent tribunal who heard all the facts awarded a large compensation package to Mon because he refused to sort out the finances and just quit? Really?

No, MON wouldn't have anyone above him interfering.

[Big_John_10]

but MON wouldn't work under any conditions except his own. When Randy finally tried to sort the problem out, MON quit

Sorry, how do you know what conditions MON would work in? The only way MoN would stay is if he could screw the club up?

And you truly believe an independent tribunal who heard all the facts awarded a large compensation package to Mon because he refused to sort out the finances and just quit? Really?

No, MON wouldn't have anyone above him interfering.

So throughout his managerial career he's never had a chairman say I will only allow this amount of wages? Or a chairman tell him he won't go past a certain transfer price? My word you're clutching.

Please also explain how he was awarded compensation if all that happened was randy asking him to lower the wage bill?