Risso Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 People were moaning when we were leaking goals left, right and centre last year. We already have the same amount of clean sheets as last season with less than half the season gone (16 games). The same people are now moaning that we have a shit playing style. When will people be happy? Genuine question. When we stop being shit? We hardly kept a single clean sheet last season, so the fact that we have more is hardly much to crow about. I'll be happy when Lambert is gone. He's a dull, hoofball merchant in the same vein as Pulis, and he's ruining our great club. It's a shame you're not old enough to have seen some of the truly excellent Villa mangers, you'd understand then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Can't really be bothered to go on with this any longer, really. It's fairly subjective if you think particular players are giving it their all. I'll weigh up the stats at the end of the season and if we've amassed more points than everyone else from losing positions I'll say fair enough but I just can't see a squad that has any more desire or fight than any one else. In fact the last few games have shown the opposite. Not that I'm not saying players aren't trying, just not at all seeing this never say die business. Well my point was purely in your post about not being the comeback kings. Statistically speaking at this point in time we are. You can't move the goalpost to the end of the season to judge something that doesn't suit your argument now. Because I don't see that stat as being the be all and end all of proof that the squad is hugely united, with an incredible desire to never lose a football game and fighting for everything, particularly after just sixteen games. Is that what you're really seeing in the performances? I'm not seeing it, that's all. That was the original point I was responding to. That's fair and I agree to an extent, but I think that stat shows we perhaps have a little more character than we give credit for. I agree about the character and that's why I said that I believe the squad is mentally stronger this season. You have to also look at the opposition! Arsenal (top of the league), Man City (probably best team in the league), Baggies away (from 2 down in a derby), these are impressive comebacks no doubt about it! Then there are plucky defeats to Liverpool and Chelsea. Battling victory over a team better than us (Southampton) after being pegged back twice. Even the Cardiff win we weren't dominated for large periods, but came out with a win. We win matches thanks to clinical finishing and hardworking combative displays, if one of these 3 factors are missing we lose, because there is a lack of real quality in the team. Only 3 players right now would get into the first team of a top 10 team the rest would be squad players! Having said that most of them are young and will improve. Take Clark awful last season, looks decent this season. Delph is looking like a quality midfielder! On the flip side Benteke, Lowton and Weimann have yet to rediscover last seasons form. At no point this season have all our best players been in good form at the same time. Gabby's been good in parts, Benteke started solidly, and Delph has come into his own and Vlaar has been excellent, but otherwise we have yet to click, but we are 11th! The main reason for this is that we have battled away and not let our heads drop! As for wages, we still have Ireland, Bent, Given and N'zogbia getting over 50k per week each (none of which were signed by Lambert) for doing sweet FA! Get them off the books and we have scope to sign two or three quality players! Seriously I feel the same about the football at home, its awful, but beggars (and we are beggars right now) can't be choosers! Lambert is doing very well with what is at his disposal. He has taken an aging relegation fodder team to a tough young midtable team. Thats CLEAR progress! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted December 16, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 16, 2013 Who is there that can work with sod all money and get us above mid table playing attractive football? Lambert has had money to spend and has spent a lot of it quite badly. Lambert has got us to being a bottom half of the premier league team playing poor football. I didn't ask for another attack of the manager. I asked for a suitable replacement, as this will be the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 And yet another simplistic opinion that doesn't even begin to address the job that Lambert is doing. You conveniently forget to mention the wage restrictions he has, or is that fabricated? He isn't doing the best job in the world, but by the same token, he isn't doing the worst job either. Pssst, also we were bottom half before Lambert came in so I'm not sure you can have a go at him for that. People were moaning when we were leaking goals left, right and centre last year. We already have the same amount of clean sheets as last season with less than half the season gone (16 games). The same people are now moaning that we have a shit playing style. When will people be happy? Genuine question. Most people recognise Lambert has wage restrictions - it doesn't mean there aren't decent players out there though. It doesn't excuse some of the dross signed recently! Yes we were in the bottom half before. However just because we were rubbish before he came doesn't mean we should expect to be crap forever more! I personally will be happier when we have a better structure to the team, we maintain possession and we create more chances. The football at the moment is awful and Lambert has to take the blame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Foreign manager for me, like that Southampton guy. Different style of football completely, instead of this Irish Scottish dull stuff we have been getting since O'Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 People were moaning when we were leaking goals left, right and centre last year. We already have the same amount of clean sheets as last season with less than half the season gone (16 games). The same people are now moaning that we have a shit playing style. When will people be happy? Genuine question. When we stop being shit? We hardly kept a single clean sheet last season, so the fact that we have more is hardly much to crow about. I'll be happy when Lambert is gone. He's a dull, hoofball merchant in the same vein as Pulis, and he's ruining our great club. It's a shame you're not old enough to have seen some of the truly excellent Villa mangers, you'd understand then. People are giving you reasons for why there's progress this season and you disregard every single one and just harp on about the past. Reality check. This is the present. This is what's happening. This is the state of the club and no amount of moaning and self-entitlement will change that. You can go on and on about how much Lambert has had to spend but you don't even mention the wages. I'm sure Lambert would love to bring in a certain type of player and he HAS tried to with Kiyo, Lukaku etc but it's clear he's not been allowed to get them. But it's all Lambert's fault. He's a disgrace to our great club and he needs to leave because he's the reason we're doing so badly in 11th!!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Are we overachieving or underachieving? The manager and players are overachieving considering the money available compared to other teams, but the club is underachieving compared to it's revenues and status in English football. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) And yet another simplistic opinion that doesn't even begin to address the job that Lambert is doing. You conveniently forget to mention the wage restrictions he has, or is that fabricated? He isn't doing the best job in the world, but by the same token, he isn't doing the worst job either. Pssst, also we were bottom half before Lambert came in so I'm not sure you can have a go at him for that. People were moaning when we were leaking goals left, right and centre last year. We already have the same amount of clean sheets as last season with less than half the season gone (16 games). The same people are now moaning that we have a shit playing style. When will people be happy? Genuine question. Most people recognise Lambert has wage restrictions - it doesn't mean there aren't decent players out there though. It doesn't excuse some of the dross signed recently! Yes we were in the bottom half before. However just because we were rubbish before he came doesn't mean we should expect to be crap forever more! I personally will be happier when we have a better structure to the team, we maintain possession and we create more chances. The football at the moment is awful and Lambert has to take the blame! Completely writing players off after how many games in a new country/new league? Last season he had roughly 50% hit rate on his signings and I won't make final judgements good or bad on this year's until the end of the season. I swear people forget that footballers are humans as well with the same restrictions and extremes of performance as any other. People will fluctuate in their first year. Even some of the current best players in the PL didn't settle instantly. Ha don't change the goalposts now. You CLEARLY state, 'Lambert has got us to being a bottom half team' when he hasn't. We were there before. You're wrong. So you think Lambert is 100% to blame? Because you clearly think a new manager would be able to come in and instantly change the situation. I wish I could view life that simply. Would make things far easier. Edited December 16, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 With the way we're playing that six point gap between us and the relegation zone might not last long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Foreign manager for me, like that Southampton guy. Different style of football completely, instead of this Irish Scottish dull stuff we have been getting since O'Neil. Is it a possibility that the style of football that 'Southampton guy' has them playing could be in part due to the quality of players at his disposal, more than the fact he's not Scottish? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 With the way we're playing that six point gap between us and the relegation zone might not last long... But until that actually happens, you're creating an argument yourself then using that argument to beat Lambert with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I think we can all agree the football we played against Man U and Fulham is not going to keep us at midtable. It was dire and unwatchable and unfortunately its played more often than not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Complete writing players off after how many games in a new country/new league? Ha don't change the goalposts now. You CLEARLY state, 'Lambert has got us to being a bottom half team' when he hasn't. We were there before. You're wrong. So you think Lambert is 100% to blame? Because you clearly think a new manager would be able to come in and instantly change the situation. I wish I could view life that simply. Would make things far easier. OK Luna is going to turn into Carlos next season and suddenly get past strolling pace and learn the basics of defensive positioning! Lambert has got us to being a bottom half team - the same achievement as our last sacked manager McLeish. I think Lambert is a big part of the problem. No width, no supply, poor mix of players, poor tactics and playing too many people out of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Foreign manager for me, like that Southampton guy. Different style of football completely, instead of this Irish Scottish dull stuff we have been getting since O'Neil. Is it a possibility that the style of football that 'Southampton guy' has them playing could be in part due to the quality of players at his disposal, more than the fact he's not Scottish? I would say its as much to do with the fact they were playing a similar style before he even took over. Southampton were playing attractive, exciting attacking football under Adtkins, now they have a bit more tactical astuteness to go with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I think we can all agree the football we played against Man U and Fulham is not going to keep us at midtable. It was dire and unwatchable and unfortunately its played more often than not! So that football that is 'played more often than not' and has put us in mid table is also not good enough to keep us in mid table? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandaq Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Barkley looked really out of place last season when he got a run, and that was towards the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) Complete writing players off after how many games in a new country/new league? Ha don't change the goalposts now. You CLEARLY state, 'Lambert has got us to being a bottom half team' when he hasn't. We were there before. You're wrong. So you think Lambert is 100% to blame? Because you clearly think a new manager would be able to come in and instantly change the situation. I wish I could view life that simply. Would make things far easier. OK Luna is going to turn into Carlos next season and suddenly get past strolling pace and learn the basics of defensive positioning! Lambert has got us to being a bottom half team - the same achievement as our last sacked manager McLeish. I think Lambert is a big part of the problem. No width, no supply, poor mix of players, poor tactics and playing too many people out of position. Again, you're creating a hyperbolic argument that nobody has stated so you can have a moan. Nobody has even partway suggested that they will turn into world class players; rather that it's logical that you should give a player at least a season before writing them off as dross. New signings will have good games and bad games. It's the nature of the beast. Are you seriously this dense? He 'got us to being a bottom half team'? What on Earth are you on about? We were already a bottom half team. Lambert hasn't dragged us down there. You haven't answered my question in the slightest. We are playing narrower to stifle the middle of the park and from the increased amount of clean sheets, I'd say it's working. Tactically is an area where he still seems to be naive and frustrating, but he gets it right just as often as he gets it wrong IMO. He doesn't seem to have a middle ground. Too many people playing out of position? Who? And I ask again. If Lambert goes, who could realistically come in and work under the same restrictions while fulfilling the expectations of our fans? Edited December 16, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 No we're in the Lambert thread and everything concerning Lambert is open to discussion and that includes home and away form of the team. As pointed out to you in my previous post you are guilty of 'cherry picking' and i've quoted you examples of that and will continue to do so whenever you do it which is on a regular basis. You seem to have forgotten how this discussion originally started. In case you've forgotten, here's a reminder: - Somebody questioned why our home form is so bad - You suggested that this was due to "crap purchases and a manager that can't get the best out of them" - I countered this and asked why if that was the case do we have such a good away record by comparison - You then gave the Fulham game as an example to counter this and I in turn replied to that by pointing out the Arsenal, Norwich and Southampton games This particular conversation wasn't about home form. It was about away form - that's why the home form didn't get mentioned. I haven't cherry-picked. You have cherry picked concerning stats and then complained about other people doing it which is consistent in the way that you post and home form was mentioned in the stat quoted which was having the lowest tally at home through all four divisions. I see you still haven't produced any evidence of posters condemning Lambert to failure no matter what he does and i see you have editied that out of my post. I wonder why that is? What have I cherry-picked? I didn't edit anything out of your post, but I didn't respond to it either because that would be post on poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Complete writing players off after how many games in a new country/new league? Ha don't change the goalposts now. You CLEARLY state, 'Lambert has got us to being a bottom half team' when he hasn't. We were there before. You're wrong. So you think Lambert is 100% to blame? Because you clearly think a new manager would be able to come in and instantly change the situation. I wish I could view life that simply. Would make things far easier. OK Luna is going to turn into Carlos next season and suddenly get past strolling pace and learn the basics of defensive positioning! Lambert has got us to being a bottom half team - the same achievement as our last sacked manager McLeish. I think Lambert is a big part of the problem. No width, no supply, poor mix of players, poor tactics and playing too many people out of position. Funny as when he managed Norwich they played open attacking football with plenty of width! The fact is you play in a style which best suits the players at your disposal! We are playing without natural wingers with Weimann and Gabby wide, so playing Narrow plays to their strengths! It squeezes the space in the middle of the pitch, making it difficult for teams to play through the middle (but also makes keeping possession difficult unless you have very technically adept players comfortable playing under pressure). We sit deep and look to hit teas on the break with Gabby's pace and Benteke's height and strength. The fact is Lambert's tactics are spot on, they're perfect for our preferred 11. We don't have lots of creative, skillful and technically adept midfielders and attackers so its pointless the play as if we do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) Again, you're creating a hyperbolic argument that nobody has stated so you can have a moan. Nobody has even partway suggested that they will turn into world class players; rather that it's logical that you should give a player at least a season before writing them off as dross. New signings will have good games and bad games. It's the nature of the beast. Are you seriously this dense? He 'got us to being a bottom half team'? What on Earth are you on about? We were already a bottom half team. Lambert hasn't dragged us down there. You haven't answered my question in the slightest. We are playing narrower to stifle the middle of the park and from the increased amount of clean sheets, I'd say it's working. Tactically is an area where he still seems to be naive and frustrating, but he gets it right just as often as he gets it wrong IMO. He doesn't seem to have a middle ground. Too many people playing out of position? Who? And I ask again. If Lambert goes, who could realistically come in and work under the same restrictions while fulfilling the expectations of our fans? It's possible to get a good idea about the quality of the signings from the almost half a season already played. It's clear that some of the fundamental skills of decent footballers are missing in a number of the recent signings. Lambert has got us to being a bottom half team as did Mcleish. You seem to be struggling with that! He hasn't got us to being a top half team as he? Right, so we're playing narrower to stifle the middle of the park. OK so spoiling tactics - remind me who's net the last 5 goals have gone in? So not only are we playing anti football it's not working. Thanks for that! As for people playing out of position: Baker at left back, Bacuna at right back to name a few... As for a replacement please see previous answer. Edited December 16, 2013 by Brumstopdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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