Manager Paul Lambert

[Mantis]

The club was managed and run badly for years prior to Lambert coming here. Did people honestly think everything would be rosy after 18 months?

 

It's not even like we're doing that badly at the moment.

[StanBalaban]

 

 

 

 

 

Deulofeu

Barry

Lukaku

 

They're all on loans on wages we can't afford

 

It's just a superior set up over the years there

 

 

£50,000 a week = £2.5m a year.  Multiplied by 3 = £7.5m, or one Kozak.

 

 

I don't beleive Kozak was anything like £7m

 

 

I think HH said somewhere around £4m.

 

Also interesting that HH alluded to players like Kozak, Bacuna and Tonev being on around £10 - 15k per week and the Delph is (or will be) on more money that Benteke, even with his new contract.

[Isa]

HH was conspicuous by his absence on the 'last set of accounts' thread though. If Faulkner has said we have spent £43m under Lambert, then it isn't possible that all our transfers were lower then the reported fees.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Isa

[SikhInTrinity]

We also don't know if PF is including wages in his figures or signing on fees. Its somewhere in between, but even if its say 43 million, that for 14 players is a 3 million average. Now some fans will sit there and say bring in less players for more quality, but if we are truthful our squad was shit when he walked in and it's still shit. Never a quick fix unless Randy throws more than the money he gave.

[Morpheus]

 

Thats a fair point Stevo and i totally agree that the balance is wrong which i have been banging on about for some considerable time now. I also think that Delph and Westwood are decent but do they have the same ability as Petrov, Milner or Barry and so far one would have to say no.

 

I agree with this - Petrov, Milner and Barry would walk into our midfield. Milner and Barry both had/have international quality. Whilst Delph and Westwood have got potential they are probably a level below this

 

So what we have at the moment is an unbalanced midfield with players of average ability who presently aren't good enough to play the type of football to excite the fans but in the run in last season we did play that type of football so overall i'm a little perplexed as to why we haven't carried that same form into this season?

 

I think injuries have played a big part this season. Benteke in particular was a ready target, always available and made a lot of space and made those around him look better. This season he has been a shadow of that. Weimann has been poor this season also. I felt for the midfield against Fulham as there seemed nothing "on" when they got the ball

 

Maybe BOF was right in a previous post where in his opinion he stated that the form shown in last season's run in was due more to nervous energy and thats why we haven't repeated it again this season as we are currently mid table? 

 

I think injuries have been the main thing allied to a small squad. Also with the type of young, inexperienced player we have they will inevitably play in fits and starts. I don't think we were as great as people seem to remember last season either. I'm hoping for 50 points which represents only a small improvement on last season, not some major change. 

 

We've also got more solidity at the back which has bought us a better points haul so far, but maybe at the expense of some of the more expansive play from last year

 

Certainly our performances this season have been flat without much flair or imagination and on Sky Paul Merson alluded to the same thing when he said we didn't have the ability to pass through teams so it might then explain Lambert recalling Albrighton and playing Kozak and Benteke up front to get service to the front men from wider positions.

 

Agreed

 

At the moment I still think Lambert doesn't know the best way for us to proceed and that has lead to indecison amongst his team selections even considering the injuries we've had and that has translated to the players.

 

I don't think it is indecision, more lack of options - given the resources available our squad is thin. On Saturday three of our first choice back four were unavailable.

 

Lambert has been here nearly two years (well not quite a season and a half)  and he must now decide how we're going to play purchasing the players to fit the system rather than the opposite and thats why the purchase of Kozak still baffles me as i cannot see an international forward coming to a team who has had a flirtation with relegation to then sit on the bench as Benteke's understudy.

 

I didn't fully understand the Kozak signing TBH - my guess is that Benteke will be off sooner rather than later (although not if he is as ineffective as he has been

 

Lambert needs some support from Lerner - we need to bring in a couple of decent players in January, hopefully in the £5-£7m bracket

 

Generally for once we're actually in the same ball park.

 

Not sure we should apportion the blame to our standard of football on a small squad as at the start of the season we had the same number of players available than anyone else. Lambert could and possibly should have brought another experienced CB in with Vlaar's history of injury, Okore new to the rigours of the Premiership and overall due to our defensive frailties last season. We should even with Vlaar back again look to bringing a CB in on loan and i'd go for Lescott as he's getting pretty restless at Man City and would give us 100% trying to get into the WC squad but whether thats a viable option or not financially who knows?

 

I'm also not so sure that the inexperience excuse can be used now either as several of our current first team got that in the relegation battle last season and they've shown that already this season with grit and determination to come back from a deficit.

 

Finally i can say without fear of contraception   that most of us realise that Lambert and the team needs more investment. Indeed I was heartened last season when you informed me that Lambert did want to sign Sissoko but couldn't due to the wage package and Lambert has already divulged that he also wanted to bring Lukaku in on loan.

 

Both those signings would have improved us greatly so we'll see what finance Lambert is given in January although i fear it won't be anywhere near what we need?

Edited December 9, 2013 by Morpheus

[StanBalaban]

We also don't know if PF is including wages in his figures or signing on fees. Its somewhere in between, but even if its say 43 million, that for 14 players is a 3 million average. Now some fans will sit there and say bring in less players for more quality, but if we are truthful our squad was shit when he walked in and it's still shit. Never a quick fix unless Randy throws more than the money he gave.

It was shit and expensive when he got here, with huge wages on depreciating assets.

 

Now it's not great, but it's not costing us anywhere near as much and we're unlikely to ever get lumbered with a player, even if he turns out to be poor in the Prem.  If a cheap player is on £10 - 15k but can't quite cut it in this league, he'll still find a home in the Championship or another European league.

 

We'll build our team off the back of selling the like of Benteke for the greater good of squad evolution.  I believe we haven't brought the wage bill down just so that we can bump it back up again in Jan and the summer, but we're more likely to see all the proceeds from sales being reinvested, as opposed to subsidising the wage bill.  No insight, just a guess mind you.

Edited December 9, 2013 by StanBalaban

[Risso]

HH was conspicuous by his absence on the 'last set of accounts' thread though. If Faulkner has said we have spent £43m under Lambert, then it isn't possible that all our transfers were lower then the reported fees.

 

Indeed.  Something doesn't add up.  If Lambert was right about the fees paid for Westwood etc, then lots of players must have cost more.  The transfer spend noted last year in the accounts equates to almost exactly the amounts noted by the likes of Soccerbase.  It's why I believe that Kozak WAS closer to £7m than £4m.  We'll see in February though.  The 31 May 2013 accounts will have a note of what was spent after the balance sheet date again, which will include this summer and the forthcoming January window.

[Isa]

We also don't know if PF is including wages in his figures or signing on fees. Its somewhere in between, but even if its say 43 million, that for 14 players is a 3 million average. Now some fans will sit there and say bring in less players for more quality, but if we are truthful our squad was shit when he walked in and it's still shit. Never a quick fix unless Randy throws more than the money he gave.

I still think it was telling that Smetrov specifically called HH to clarify the figures on that thread though and he didn't do so. Tells me that the figures quoted by Lambert are probably infactual or taken out of context.

I agree with your last bit though.

[Morpheus]

 

 

Didn't Lambert say he came here with a 5 year plan? we're not even half way through that. As previously mentioned he probably envisions us being mid table for a few seasons whilst we gain stability and get something real to build on. I have no problem sitting in mid-table for the next couple of seasons if it means that in a few years time we will have a good squad of players that will challenge for more. 

 

We've already seen progress from when he first came in, yes the style of football hasn't been good but he's improved our defence since last year and built a team that has good fight and togetherness. Im sure we'll gradually see an improvement in style of play, if not this year, then next year. I'm sure he's well aware of what our problems are and what he needs to do to fix them.

Christ not another one!!

 

Look Rome wasn't built in a day and everyone realises that but we're nearly two years into yet another plan and we've been saddled with yet more poor players after spending 42m. The football is still atrocious and there really doesn't seem to be a pattern of play.

 

Out of all our players at the moment Delph is showing the most potential with Benteke struggling and he isn't a Lambert signing  so i'm not sure how much more patience needs to be shown since we haven't had a team to be proud of in a very long time.

 

 

So what do you want? Lambert sacked and another manager bought in, and another 18 months rebuilding and another sacking then another and another?

 

Everton are the exact model we should be following

 

Lambert spent £40m (but probably closer to £30m) on a complete squad.....Southampton spent the same on three players last summer

 

Thankfully, there is no chance at all of Lambert being sacked

 

Firstly calm down.

 

No I don't want him sacked, not yet anyway and I certainly wouldn't advocate continually sacking managers either as you have alluded to above. We've actually only sacked one manager over how many seasons with the others leaving for different reasons so we really don't have a habitual history of sacking managers as the board always try to show patience and I totally agree with you that we need stability, but stability with the right manager.

 

Its just as bad as keeping faith with the same manager for stability sake without substantiated improvement as it is to habitually sack managers.

 

Is Lambert the right manager for us?

 

I wanted him sacked too early in his tenure with us but that wasn't without substance and i've stated a million times on here why I am still not yet a Lambert fan so no need to go into that again but I am still hopeful that through more time he will shove my assumption of him back down my throat and i'm still waiting for him to do that. Even though we have more points at this stage than last season i'm still not convinced by him and if we slide back into relegation trouble again, still repeating the kind of rubbish football that we've seen so far which has been a repetition of last season's debacle and that is a constant past the January window then like a few others on site I will have had enough.

[Electric Avenue]

Points are up but the brand of football / entertainment levels are beginning to influence the gate size. People I believe are voting with their feet. Fulham had their lowest PL gate by some distance, home gates are down, luckily we will have a big gate v Yanited as the day trippers will be out plus Yanited in the home ends, but overall gates are worryingly down again.

[samjp26]

People being unhappy with the brand of football being played is the best way to put it, Electric Avenue, I certainly agree with that phrase because we aren't actually playing bad football. In some aspects you could say we are, for example we aren't scoring enough goals, but people saying we are playing crap football are saying it from their point of view - it is a brand of football that they are unhappy watching. 

 

Defensively we are playing very, very well and a great deal better than last season, which leaves me confused as to why we have any call at all such as "we need to get Lescott in on loan for 6 months." There are aspects of our footballing style that aren't pleasing to the eye as such, but they get the job done. There are other aspects to our footballing style that maybe aren't getting the job done, for example our strikers or the creativity department in terms of creating goal scoring chances. Lambert obviously knows this, he is a professional within the game, a professional football manager with some fantastic achievements under his belt. Of course he needs to be able to rectify such issues, in this case, by maybe buying a player or even two.

 

Why did he not buy these players in the Summer? Well, probably because just like ourselves he thought last season finished well and goalscoring or creating opportunities would probably be the least of our worries. You could also argue that we were linked to quite a few 'attacking midfielders' and creative players, but Lambert simply wasn't backed financially to bring them in.

 

Overall though we are and have been improving, in terms of results and points on the board most importantly but also important statistics such as the amount of goals we have conceded or the amount of clean sheets we have obtained.

 

Do I think we'll bring in a player to solve our creative/scoring issues in January? Hopefully, but that isn't down to Lambert as I've already mentioned it was clear as day we were trying to purchase such a player in the Summer. I'd like to think Randy will see our results are going well, our position is decent and to push on further he'll fund whatever move it is (within reason) that Lambert sees fit.

 

From there, maybe our football will be more pleasing to watch, with more creativity, more chances and of course more goals. We can't expect all aspects of our game to click after less than 18 months, last season we saw signs of great attacking football towards the end of it, this season we've seen great defensive performances from the get go. I for one am positive that Lambert will get things to click though, but we just have to be patient and also hope that he is backed where/when he needs it.

 

I saw it mentioned earlier in the thread but I'll say it as well, we should wait until at least the end of the season before making judgments on whether we're rubbish at football or not.

Edited December 9, 2013 by samjp26

[darrenm]

People being unhappy with the brand of football being played is the best way to put it, Electric Avenue, I certainly agree with that phrase because we aren't actually playing bad football. In some aspects you could say we are, for example we aren't scoring enough goals, but people saying we are playing crap football are saying it from their point of view - it is a brand of football that they are unhappy watching. 

 

Defensively we are playing very, very well and a great deal better than last season, which leaves me confused as to why we have any call at all such as "we need to get Lescott in on loan for 6 months." There are aspects of our footballing style that aren't pleasing to the eye as such, but they get the job done. There are other aspects to our footballing style that maybe aren't getting the job done, for example our strikers or the creativity department in terms of creating goal scoring chances. Lambert obviously knows this, he is a professional within the game, a professional football manager with some fantastic achievements under his belt. Of course he needs to be able to rectify such issues, in this case, by maybe buying a player or even two.

 

Why did he not buy these players in the Summer? Well, probably because just like ourselves he thought last season finished well and goalscoring or creating opportunities would probably be the least of our worries. You could also argue that we were linked to quite a few 'attacking midfielders' and creative players, but Lambert simply wasn't backed financially to bring them in.

 

Overall though we are and have been improving, in terms of results and points on the board most importantly but also important statistics such as the amount of goals we have conceded or the amount of clean sheets we have obtained.

 

Do I think we'll bring in a player to solve our creative/scoring issues in January? Hopefully, but that isn't down to Lambert as I've already mentioned it was clear as day we were trying to purchase such a player in the Summer. I'd like to think Randy will see our results are going well, our position is decent and to push on further he'll fund whatever move it is (within reason) that Lambert sees fit.

 

From there, maybe our football will be more pleasing to watch, with more creativity, more chances and of course more goals. We can't expect all aspects of our game to click after less than 18 months, last season we saw signs of great attacking football towards the end of it, this season we've seen great defensive performances from the get go. I for one am positive that Lambert will get things to click though, but we just have to be patient and also hope that he is backed where/when he needs it.

 

I saw it mentioned earlier in the thread but I'll say it as well, we should wait until at least the end of the season before making judgments on whether we're rubbish at football or not.

Agreed 100%

[Shaw_nuff]

People being unhappy with the brand of football being played is the best way to put it, Electric Avenue, I certainly agree with that phrase because we aren't actually playing bad football. In some aspects you could say we are, for example we aren't scoring enough goals, but people saying we are playing crap football are saying it from their point of view - it is a brand of football that they are unhappy watching. 

 

Defensively we are playing very, very well and a great deal better than last season, which leaves me confused as to why we have any call at all such as "we need to get Lescott in on loan for 6 months." There are aspects of our footballing style that aren't pleasing to the eye as such, but they get the job done. There are other aspects to our footballing style that maybe aren't getting the job done, for example our strikers or the creativity department in terms of creating goal scoring chances. Lambert obviously knows this, he is a professional within the game, a professional football manager with some fantastic achievements under his belt. Of course he needs to be able to rectify such issues, in this case, by maybe buying a player or even two.

 

Why did he not buy these players in the Summer? Well, probably because just like ourselves he thought last season finished well and goalscoring or creating opportunities would probably be the least of our worries. You could also argue that we were linked to quite a few 'attacking midfielders' and creative players, but Lambert simply wasn't backed financially to bring them in.

 

Overall though we are and have been improving, in terms of results and points on the board most importantly but also important statistics such as the amount of goals we have conceded or the amount of clean sheets we have obtained.

 

Do I think we'll bring in a player to solve our creative/scoring issues in January? Hopefully, but that isn't down to Lambert as I've already mentioned it was clear as day we were trying to purchase such a player in the Summer. I'd like to think Randy will see our results are going well, our position is decent and to push on further he'll fund whatever move it is (within reason) that Lambert sees fit.

 

From there, maybe our football will be more pleasing to watch, with more creativity, more chances and of course more goals. We can't expect all aspects of our game to click after less than 18 months, last season we saw signs of great attacking football towards the end of it, this season we've seen great defensive performances from the get go. I for one am positive that Lambert will get things to click though, but we just have to be patient and also hope that he is backed where/when he needs it.

 

I saw it mentioned earlier in the thread but I'll say it as well, we should wait until at least the end of the season before making judgments on whether we're rubbish at football or not.

We can start playing football like the invincibles in their pomp starting from next week, in which case I will be cheering from the rooftops and praising PL for all he's worth. That still won't alter the fact that the football has been eye-bleedingly awful for two months.

[Chap of Steel]

I've no idea why Paul decided to change style, but we're 10th - why would he change back to the attacking style, that while great to watch, did mean we drew a lot of games?

Edited December 9, 2013 by Chap of Steel

[samjp26]

What would people like me to confirm ie spending? sorry didn't realise I was on trial.

 

 

People were wondering why the figures in the latest financial documents showed transfer fees to be higher than what Lambo said they were (basically the fees in the documents match up with those in the press, that we thought were inflated)

 

You aren't on trial mate and anything you do not want to answer then you shouldn't, firstly because you I don't think you should jeopardise your position at the club (whatever it may be), secondly because it is up to you with what you share and we're all appreciative of your information. 

[VillaCas]

 

Firstly calm down.

 

No I don't want him sacked, not yet anyway and I certainly wouldn't advocate continually sacking managers either as you have alluded to above. We've actually only sacked one manager over how many seasons with the others leaving for different reasons so we really don't have a habitual history of sacking managers as the board always try to show patience and I totally agree with you that we need stability, but stability with the right manager.

 

Its just as bad as keeping faith with the same manager for stability sake without substantiated improvement as it is to habitually sack managers.

 

Is Lambert the right manager for us?

 

I wanted him sacked too early in his tenure with us but that wasn't without substance and i've stated a million times on here why I am still not yet a Lambert fan so no need to go into that again but I am still hopeful that through more time he will shove my assumption of him back down my throat and i'm still waiting for him to do that. Even though we have more points at this stage than last season i'm still not convinced by him and if we slide back into relegation trouble again, still repeating the kind of rubbish football that we've seen so far which has been a repetition of last season's debacle and that is a constant past the January window then like a few others on site I will have had enough.

 

 

Fair enough.........despite apperances to the contrary, I'm not a blind Lambert supporter, however, I feel that we must keep faith with someone through thick and thin and give them a really good go at this

 

I have a lot of patience with Lambert because I think he took on a really difficult task and is seeing it through - certainly he could have taken easier options. I beleive that he sees the possibilties with Villa that if he can get through this difficult period we could have something worthwhile

 

I don't beleive we will slide back into relegation trouble but even so (as I feel today) I hope would still continue to support Lambert - if we were to get relegated I would have to  reassess but I really don't think that will happen.

 

To date he has had meagre resources and I don't think anyone could have done any better in the circumstances - I truly beleive that he had no option but to take the path he has with young untried players. I'm not ITK but I do know for a fact that he would have liked to sign more quality and more experience (Kiyotake, Sissoko and appartently Barry)

 

I get frustrated from time to time (e.g. why did he wait until 82 mins to bring on Albrighton and Tonev?) however, I always filter those thoughts though the knowledge that Lambert understand 1000 times more about the players and football than I ever will

 

If Lambert is backed in January to bring in a couple of decent players (a defensive mid, who maybe can double as CB cover and a Kiyotake-type attacking midfield) I think we can look forward to a comfortable second half - if not we are in the lap of the gods injury-wise (I take your point that we have the same number of players as everyone else but the money we have spent  so far means we don't really have the depth of squad yet that we need). I'm not going over old ground regarding keeping more experienced players - I don't think that was ever an option and you clearly think differently - maybe HH can give his opinion

 

 

[Morpheus]

Seconded s26.

 

HH we're all very appreciative of what you tell us so please don't disappear like one or two other ITKs.

[GENTLEMAN]

What would people like me to confirm ie spending? sorry didn't realise I was on trial.

You are not on trial  .There appears to be some confusion and contradictions regarding the actual transfer fees. I would like to know who is actually in charge of the transfer strategy? Randy or Paul (Lambert).

Edited December 9, 2013 by GENTLEMAN

[villianusa]

What would people like me to confirm ie spending? sorry didn't realise I was on trial.

I'd rather know why our movement off the ball is so bad. 

[VillanousOne]

There is no reason that we can't pay bigger wages and bigger transfer fees, presuming that by the summer we are on a better financial footing with only a few bomb squad players left - and with the money being pumped into the premier league these days there is no reason we can't compete. The question is does Lerner back Lambert, do we trust Lambert to spend that sort of money and does Lambert want to take that risk?

 

This season because our three man attack has failed comprehensively our tactics have crumbled, we had width with Weimann or Gabby running down the flanks, and Lowton (and even at times Bennett providing width) now that isn't happening. There is no threat from our midfield and our strikers are out of sorts, every team puts three players on Beneteke who clatter into him everytime he gets the ball, there are no one on ones for Tekkers to power through and win anymore.

So presently we don't have much of a plan B and our defensive stability is under question due to injury. It's going to get worse before it gets better unless some of our new signings prove their worth.

 

The next game is the type of game we always lose - a team out of luck and out of form - all made ok by finding the space and possession they need to destroy us for a morale boosting victory. We can't outplay Hull or Sunderland FFS. We may as well experiment and try and get our tactics right rather than worrying about the result.