dukes Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Look at Everton and Spurs as an example. That is what we have failed to replicate. And that is what Houllier was looking to replicate. I would have loved to have seen what might have happened had his health held out. The McLeish appointment was a big turning point in Lerner's relationship with the fans, because that was the point most really questioned if heknew what he was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Nothing to do with city. It started when Lerner pulled the plug on backing mon anymore. Only because wages went above 100% of turnover the same year we recorded a loss of £34m. The bubble burst. It was an unsustainable transfer policy that the club have slowly began to rectify. Edited January 13, 2013 by The_Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Nothing to do with city. It started when Lerner pulled the plug on backing mon anymore. He pulled the plug on MON because of CIty and how they changed the game, that meant the dream of Champions League football was over, and we were left with CHampions League wages without the revenue to sustain them. MON walking out was the action of a petulant child IMO, had he manned up and been more realistic we'd probably be in a better situation than we are, instead MON walked at the worst possible time, and we imploded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstonMartin82 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Nothing to do with city. It started when Lerner pulled the plug on backing mon anymore. Nothing to do with city. It started when Lerner pulled the plug on backing mon anymore. Didn't he pull the plug because of Man City though......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Only because wages went above 100% of turnover What season was this? I know that in 2009/10 Mon's final season our wage bill was just under 80 mill and turnover was 90 mill so 88% of turnover. I know under Houllier the wage bill increased to something like 83 mill but I don't think that it exceeded turnover. Edited January 13, 2013 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 What season was this? I know that in 2009/10 Mon's final season our wage bill was just under 80 mill and turnover was 90 mill so 88% of turnover. I know under Houllier the wage bill increased to something like 83 mill but I don't think that it exceeded turnover. 2010/2011 so it would be an accumulation of MON and Houllier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 What season was this? I know that in 2009/10 Mon's final season our wage bill was just under 80 mill and turnover was 90 mill so 88% of turnover. I know under Houllier the wage bill increased to something like 83 mill but I don't think that it exceeded turnover. The wages never exceeded turnover. Actually i think turnover briefly increased at a greater rate than wages due to the two wembley appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 It was failing to make the champs league ..we gambled on getting thier and been sliding down table since. You could also point to the 7-1 loss to chelsea as the point we relized the team was miles away from the top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 2010/2011 so it would be an accumulation of MON and Houllier. In 2010/11 our turnover was 92 mill and wages 83mill so around 90%. I don't believe wages have ever exceeded turnover. 2010/11 Premier League Acccount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Did we really pay over £6m for Makoun? Thanks Houllier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 For me? when we won the League & Ron Saunders left. We failed to strengthen a very small squad & only signed Andy Blair if i remember correctly? Then A Mr Ellis took charge from the Bendalls & down hill we went... Tony Barton did well to win us the European Cup but then it was 25 years of depressing under achievement. I can only remember a couple of random years when we got a decentish side & finished 2nd .. once under Ron Atkinson & once under Graham Taylor.. But we were always a couple of top players short due to Ellis lacking that ambition... I swear to this day he did it deliberatley so as to not lift expectations too high meaning he would have pressure to then keep us there. As for under Lerner? When Lerner suddenly moved the goalposts on MON & he & Krulak quit.. that was the start & the firesale has been going on ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 In 2010/11 our turnover was 92 mill and wages 83mill so around 90%. I don't believe wages have ever exceeded turnover. 2010/11 Premier League Acccount I got mine from this Independent piece This site throws up some interesting numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Not making the CL in MON's third/fourth year. The draw against Stoke. The FFP rules, which Randy seems adamant to abide to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pez1974 Posted January 13, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) IMO, a total lack of footballing strategy started the rot. We played well with wingers (albeit we it massively overspent on mediocrity, mainly as a result of MON unwillingness to tap into the European market). We then sold the 2 main wingers without properly replacing them under GH, but finally bought a goalscorer at an inflated price. Then we appointed McLeish, who only seemed to play with defenders in every position. Now we have PL, who doesn't use wingers. Can you imagine someone taking over at Old Trafford next season and not playing with wingers - they would need to sell Young, Valencia, and Nani. They would need a different style of midfielders, the full backs would need to change their style of play. It would be a hell of a transition, but at least they would still have RVP, Rooney, Vidic etc. We are doing it with kids who ain't as good as everyone thought they were. MON loved older, experienced players. GH and PL preferred younger, hungry players (Pires aside!). McLeish loved defenders, and shit ones at that. Lerner has spent a fortune on players and wages, but we are now in a 4th consecutive season playing and recruiting in a different way - under 5 different managers. This means that continuity in our scouting system is almost non-existent, with long term player recruitment looking 6 months ahead tops. Look at the best sides - continuity is almost always key. And not just Man Utd and Arsenal, look at Everton, Wigan (for their level) and even Swansea played the same way under Matinez, then Rodgers, and now Laudrup. Plus, (taking the argument a little above our station) look at Barcelona - they play a set style and have done for years throughout the club, from the youngest teams up, under Rikyaard, Guardiola and now the new fella. They buy players who fit in, and they can usually just slot in seemlessly. We buy Alan Hutton, and expect him to do a good job defensively, when the whole world knows he can't. Personally, I think Lerner has done loads for AVFC, and spent a fortune. But he knows **** all about football. His Chief Exec is a commercial guy, and is doing a good job at it. But he knows nothing about football. We know this, they appointed McLeish (I don't like McLeish you know!). We need someone in the Boardroom with footballing knowledge to help guide the Board. Tell them when and where to spend; mention that perhaps £2m and £50k-odd a week on Habib Beye as a 3rd choice right back is not great use of funds; question why McLeish thinks Alan Hutton is fit to wear the shirt; provid a bit on continuity on footballing matters even if the manager changes, and make sure the new manager can build upon previous work, rather than start again; and provide a link between the Board and the fans. Until we have this at the top, we ain't going anywhere nice. Edited January 13, 2013 by Pez1974 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Vidic not getting sent off in the 2010 league cup final because he plays for Manchester United. If he had walked and we had won the cup, who knows? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Good post pez1974 I agree with all of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoAvfc Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 1 March 2009 16:45. Steve Sidwells right foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I think Randy lost a lot of his enjoyment for Villa as he wasting a lot of his cash on crap like Heskey, Beye, Sidwell etc and think he hasnt got it back since. though for me the rot started at Villa when Martin Laursen retired, I think we were actually 2nd/3rd when he got injured then a few months later Barry left. Had of kept them 2 history might have been different 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Agreed zatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXD Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 season 201/2011 was the turning point. first MON left, who was a good coach and motivator. By the end of the season with Milner already gone, we lost both Young and Downing who were our star players, but without a coach with a long term vision who could replace them. when Barry left we were able to cope cause we had a coach that was here for the long haul and it didn't damage us that much, we still had good results after. after the departure of MON, there was a quick succession of players leaving. Carew, Bouma, Davies, Sidwell, L Young, Cuellar, Collins,... were by no means superstars, but when you let your stars go (Milner, Young, Downing) as well as your squad players, there is no continuity. I think a lot of those squad players could have had an added value today with their experience, they could take the pressure off of todays youngsters because people would be looking at the likes of cuellar and sidwell and not to players like Bannan or Clark to lead the team. That doesn't mean we would still be playing for europeans spots, but I'd say we would be better off than we are now. Some of these guys were let go for peanuts. I read a lot of comments they weren't worth their paycheck, but I'm not buying that. Sidwell or L.Young didn't have that kind of wages. Sure they were more expensive than our current youngsters, but I doubt there are many companies were people with experience get paid less than some starter. if a multinational company get's rid of all their high earners, the company would be in chaos as well, because you would be relying on people who aren't ready yet (though they could be in a few years) I get the whole 'cutting back on wages' issue, but when you are a selling club like we, and most of the clubs in the world, are, this should be done more natural. Young and Downing where probably our highest earners at the time, their replacement N'Zogbia seems unlikely to get the same wages straight away. things like that go through improved contract after good performances. Some players were overpaid, obviously, but it seems that we now have the idea that everyone in the last five years was overpaid. This is the English Premier League, not the scottish or even french or dutch. if you want to be in the PL you have to pay like a PL club, not like a Championship team, which we are currently doing apparently. Let's take a look at the transfer policy regarding our key players, taking our team from 2009/2010. Friedel has been decently replaced by Given last season and Guzan this season, no problem here. Warnock, he had a bad season and is now treated like the scum of the earth by some. still everyone bought to replace him comes up short (stevens, Bennett) Dunne, no repacement. granted he is still a villa player and Lambert couldn't foresee him being injured this long. Still he is getting the same comments as Warnock ('deadwood') Collins: everyone's happy he left, but his replacement Vlaar has not shown to be the big man just yet. yet all our hope is set on him to get our defence in line. L.Young: Walker was good when he came, but was only temporary, Hutton failed and lowton is doing as well as he can, but is still learning. break even at best on RB Milner was replaced by Ireland. despite all the negative comments on here, he was our player of the year last season. So the guy has got it in him to be a good player for us. When Young and Downing left, the only replacement was Zog, so 2 flanks had to be covered by 1? there was probably more expected from albrighton, but I don't think you can put the blame on him, we should have had a second replacement. Petrov, our captain, has been replaced by? I guess westwood Carew has not been missed so much. Bent has proven himself with his goals, yet still he is not the popular kid on this board. Benteke has had a few good matches but is not yet the big superstar. Gabby is the only one who is still here. the bench: Cuellar, sidwell, Heskey,... you can always hope that our youngster step up, but when they clearly aren't ready, buying a few good players couldn't hurt. for that, you need a long term vision, which is hard to develop when you change manager and style every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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