Youth Next Gen Series 2012/2013

[Con]

My opinion of the youth team players is not binary.

 

"Awesome vs Sh1t" gives you two options only.

 

That simplistic way of grading players would embarrass a 5 year old.

 

No, Carruthers went into the tournament a very good player and came out of it an excellent one.

[P3te]

This is all very simple for me to be honest...

 

All players were once youth players

Not all great players were once great youth players

 

However, history dictates that great youth players are more likely to be great senior players. It's not a given or anything close, but the more successful a club's youth setup is the bigger the chances of bringing great players through.

 

Our youth team just won the biggest competition in Europe, so there's a higher chance of some of those players going on to be top class than if they had finished bottom of their domestic league

 

Additionally, the more success your youth system has on the pitch, the more likely you are to attract better young players, the more likely they are to repeat previous success, the more likely the club is to bring through top quality first team players

 

THAT'S why this is relevant John. THAT'S why people give a shit. Youth team success guarantees nothing but it does increase the chances of success down the line in terms of the standard of players coming through

 

The more attractive we are to the best kids in England and abroad, the more chance we have of getting potentially world class players at the club from a young age. Simple as that.

Edited April 4, 2013 by P3te

[Houlston]

I personally think its a shame that this thread has become what it has, its the Next Gen series we won it, its brilliant for all the lads that played, their family & some fans. It gives us some positive press and shows other young players around Europe that Aston Villa might be a good place to go as a young player. It gives me and I'd hope others a better understanding of these players and it gives a good reference to hopefully watching how they develop.

 

I don't want to sound like a mod but surely if you really must put a damper on the youth system or question it then perhaps it would be best to do so in the Academy thread.

[Big_John_10]

This is all very simple for me to be honest...

 

All players were once youth players

Not all great players were once great youth players

 

However, history dictates that great youth players are more likely to be great senior players. It's not a given or anything close, but the more successful a club's youth setup is the bigger the chances of bringing great players through.

 

Our youth team just won the biggest competition in Europe, so there's a higher chance of some of those players going on to be top class than if they had finished bottom of their domestic league

 

Additionally, the more success your youth system has on the pitch, the more likely you are to attract better young players, the more likely they are to repeat previous success, the more likely the club is to bring through top quality first team players

 

THAT'S why this is relevant John. THAT'S why people give a shit. Youth team success guarantees nothing but it does increase the chances of success down the line in terms of the standard of players coming through

 

The more attractive we are to the best kids in England and abroad, the more chance we have of getting potentially world class players at the club from a young age. Simple as that.

I asked it earlier. If we'd lost to Chelsea in the final would your opinion of any of those players have changed? Would you think they'd have less chance of making it as successful professionals? Would you be less excited about their potential?

I personally think its a shame that this thread has become what it has, its the Next Gen series we won it, its brilliant for all the lads that played, their family & some fans. It gives us some positive press and shows other young players around Europe that Aston Villa might be a good place to go as a young player. It gives me and I'd hope others a better understanding of these players and it gives a good reference to hopefully watching how they develop.

 

I don't want to sound like a mod but surely if you really must put a damper on the youth system or question it then perhaps it would be best to do so in the Academy thread.

Some have certainly overreacted.

[Con]

Why does your assessment of players have to be binary?

 

Don't rate them success or failure. Rate them 1 - 10.

 

Before the final you might rate a player a 7. After you might want to increase it to 8. Losing the final doesn't lower the rating from 7.

[Big_John_10]

Losing the final doesn't lower the rating from 7.

Well this is kind of my point.

It sounds to me like grealish is going to be a good player. I doubt that opinion of him would have changed had we lost the final.

I think carruthers is going to be a good player. Losing that final would not have changed my opinion of him one bit.

And that's because this win doesn't mean anything.

[Con]

Losing the final doesn't lower the rating from 7.

Well this is kind of my point.

It sounds to me like grealish is going to be a good player. I doubt that opinion of him would have changed had we lost the final.

I think carruthers is going to be a good player. Losing that final would not have changed my opinion of him one bit.

And that's because this win doesn't mean anything.

 

Win increase the rating from 7 to 8.

 

It shows Grealish, and the others, is an even better player.

 

Can handle the pressure. Can compete against the very best of his peers.

[Con]

Is it a surprise to anyone that Luke Moore, Liam Ridgewell and Steven Davis - three of the 2002 FA youth cup winners - went on to be cup winners in their own careers?

 

Guy Wittingham is now winning the Championship with Cardiff.

 

These kids are winners.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Con

[Big_John_10]

Is it a surprise to anyone that Luke Moore, Liam Ridgewell and Steven Davis - three of the 2002 FA youth cup winners - went on to be cup winners in their own careers?

 

Guy Wittingham is now winning the Championship with Cardiff.

 

These kids are winners.

Who all failed at Aston Villa football club.

I assume you mean Peter. Sneaking Guy in may have been against the rules.

[Con]

They succeeded at Aston Villa. 

 

You ignore the £10 million we got.

 

Merge them into one... what do you get?

 

Christian Benteke and Ashley Westwood.

 

Rest my case.

[Big_John_10]

All the ones you named were sold because they weren't good enough.

They failed at Aston Villa.

Getting money for them doesn't change their performances for the senior team.

[Con]

All the ones you named were sold because they weren't good enough.

They failed at Aston Villa.

Getting money for them doesn't change their performances for the senior team.

 

They were unarguably winners. Perhaps in every case we were wrong to sell?

 

Also, they were quality players who we could sell for £10 million.

 

That's success because for £10 million you can buy Christian Benteke and Ashley Westwood - so long as your manager is Paul Lambert and not MON.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Con

[Big_John_10]

Yes Luke is such an unarguable winner that he played 35 minutes in the quarter final, wasn't even in the squad for either of the semi final games and played absolutely no part in the final.

What a winner. Yes you couldn't possibly argue against that.

[Con]

Yes Luke is such an unarguable winner that he played 35 minutes in the quarter final, wasn't even in the squad for either of the semi final games and played absolutely no part in the final.

What a winner. Yes you couldn't possibly argue against that.

 

Winning mentality can transmit during training sessions. If you are a winner you know this. Your winningness become infectious.

[Big_John_10]

Haha

That's pretty funny.

Unless you're being serious. You're not though are you?

[Con]

Are Giggs and Scholes still at Man Utd because of their performances alone? No chance.

[Con]

Moral of the story is, when you find a group of winners you need to keep them because they will win things.

 

Funny how that works. 

[P3te]

This is all very simple for me to be honest...

 

All players were once youth players

Not all great players were once great youth players

 

However, history dictates that great youth players are more likely to be great senior players. It's not a given or anything close, but the more successful a club's youth setup is the bigger the chances of bringing great players through.

 

Our youth team just won the biggest competition in Europe, so there's a higher chance of some of those players going on to be top class than if they had finished bottom of their domestic league

 

Additionally, the more success your youth system has on the pitch, the more likely you are to attract better young players, the more likely they are to repeat previous success, the more likely the club is to bring through top quality first team players

 

THAT'S why this is relevant John. THAT'S why people give a shit. Youth team success guarantees nothing but it does increase the chances of success down the line in terms of the standard of players coming through

 

The more attractive we are to the best kids in England and abroad, the more chance we have of getting potentially world class players at the club from a young age. Simple as that.

I asked it earlier. If we'd lost to Chelsea in the final would your opinion of any of those players have changed? Would you think they'd have less chance of making it as successful professionals? Would you be less excited about their potential?

No it wouldn't have. Why would it? Anything can happen in a single match. Had we been beaten by Chelsea, we'd have been finalists in the top competition on the continent for youth teams. That in itself is a great accomplishment. In getting through their group, through each knockout stage, and getting to the final, they've shown consistency and an ability to come up against the best in their age group. Losing the final wouldn't have changed any of their accomplishments on the way there

 

That single one off match has no bearing on the likelihood of any of them making it as professionals, the whole tournament however, is a good indicator that they're on the right track. And further than that, it's a good indicator that the youth setup at  the club is among the best in the game

Losing the final doesn't lower the rating from 7.

Well this is kind of my point.

It sounds to me like grealish is going to be a good player. I doubt that opinion of him would have changed had we lost the final.

I think carruthers is going to be a good player. Losing that final would not have changed my opinion of him one bit.

And that's because this win doesn't mean anything.

winning a competition is about more than the last game 

[turnbull]

Latest news; Government to investigate waste of bandwidth on local club fans website...................

[Pelle]

Hm, didn't that united youth team containing Beckham, Nevilles, Scholes, Giggs, Butt, etc, win the FA youth cup omce?Wonder if that meant anything.

 

Some will make it, some won't. And it's not always those you think will make it that does. But to win a tournament like this is at least an indicator that they might make it. I have a lot more faith that they will make it then I'd had, had they not even got through the group stages. The belief in them increased for every stage they got through, And when they won, well, then I thought that there must be someone in that team that can become a star for us in the future.

 

BJ, I don't know if you have any kids, but if you do have a son and he got to play for the Aston Villa youth team and was part of a team that won this tournament, please don't tell him that it didn't mean anything cause he'll probably not make it anyway.