Youth Next Gen Series 2012/2013

[Con]

If youth football means nothing you would happily swap Aston Villa's youth team for that of Birmingham City.

 

The logic of this cannot be defeated.

 

Your pessimism is holed below the water line.

 

Villa's kids win. Again.

[Big_John_10]

If youth football means nothing you would happily swap Aston Villa's youth team for that of Birmingham City.

I think we have more chance than Birmingham of producing a good player.

What they do at youth level doesn't mean anything though until they start doing it for the first team.

The logic of this cannot be defeated

I'm not sure this means much coming from someone who rates Barry Bannan so highly.

[StefanAVFC]

You have that much of an ego, you won't even entertain the fact that you might be wrong

Haha

Nothing to do with ego. I don't think I'm wrong when I say youth football means nothing.

There are examples of players who have won things at youth level and gone onto have shit careers.

There are also examples of players who have won nothing at youth level and gone onto be brilliant players.

There are examples of highly rated young players dropping down the leagues once they start playing senior football

And there are examples of players not highly rated at youth level who have gone on to succeed at senior level.

And that's because youth football doesn't mean anything.

 

Again, this isn't the point that people were disagreeing with. We all accept that most youth players don't make it. That some highly rated players turn shit. Some low rated players become great. But the point you've been missing this whole time is that it just DOESN'T MEAN NOTHING. Try telling that to the lads who just won. Try telling that to McAndrew. (this is what we meant by the wedding comparisons if you didn't realise). The fact that the first thing you think of when the lads won the tourney is that it doesn't actually matter is a negative viewpoint, is it not? Most people in this thread agree and that's why they keep telling you.

 

True, negativity and realism do cross paths a lot. I accept that. But sometimes bringing up the realistic scenario is negative. It's taking the shine off of what is a great achievement. This is again what we meant when we used the wedding and christening examples. Obviously there is a huge chance that a newly born kid is going to have a boring life with an average wage, but when a child is born, all parents will want to believe that their kid will be big and successful. It's the same situation here. We, as Aston Villa fans, see this amazing achievement (because regardless of what you've said, this is a great achievement for them. They've beat some of the best teams in Europe), means that we see the future of potentially bright. Especially considering the frugal policy the club seems to be taking these days. The fact we might have some gems (and winning this tournament shows that we do some decent players, regardless of what you say) is exciting. Also, remember that we had some incredibly young players in this team that are either in the first team picture, or have made a first team appearance. Their experience at this level gives them a massive platform to push on and help the club. How you can't see this just baffles me. Surely if you're a fan of Aston Villa football club, you'd be excited at our team of players (who aren't U11) that could make an appearance for the first team in the near future do well? Not just come straight into the celebrations rain on everybody's parade and tell them we shouldn't be excited, because youth football doesn't matter and the lads probably won't go on to be very good.

 

Can you honestly not see why people might be a tad peeved by that attitude?

[Con]

If youth football means nothing you would happily swap Aston Villa's youth team for that of Birmingham City.

I think we have more chance than Birmingham of producing a good player.

What they do at youth level doesn't mean anything though until they start doing it for the first team.

 

You have contradicted yourself in two sentences.

 

What they do at youth level does matter, otherwise you would swap Birmingham City's youth for our European cup winners.

 

The fact ours are showing so much evidence of talent is irrelevant to you. Bring Birmingham City's kids into our academy, we'll just as likely produce a good player.

 

Nonsense. Your unwillingness to swap our youth team for Birmingham City's shows you don't actually believe what you are saying.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Con

[tinker]

Its a great achievement from all those involved. Congratulations and thanks for bringing a fine piece of silver work to the Villa.

 

From where i stand its a fantastic thing for those lads and the club, not just for the future, its for today, for this week, for this year. Lets not look at what it will lead to, lets be happy for what they, and us, have already achieved.

[StefanAVFC]

Its a great achievement from all those involved. Congratulations and thanks for bringing a fine piece of silver work to the Villa.

 

From where i stand its a fantastic thing for those lads and the club, not just for the future, its for today, for this week, for this year. Lets not look at what it will lead to, lets be happy for what they, and us, have already achieved.

 

Amen.

[Con]

Nonsense. I'm looking to what this is going to lead to. That is, some great players.

[Big_John_10]

Try telling that to the lads who just won. Try telling that to McAndrew.

I've said it's a great achievement for them (try reading)

The fact that the first thing you think of when the lads won the tourney is that it doesn't actually matter is a negative viewpoint, is it not?

Would you view it as less negative if I'd waited a week.

This is again what we meant when we used the wedding and christening examples

Which is nothing like posting on a message board. Good example though, especially for someone with such respect, decency and tact.

because regardless of what you've said, this is a great achievement for them

Hahaha what do you mean regardless of what I've said. I've said it over and over (try reading) its a great achievement for them. I've posted those words over and over so what are you going on about?

Also, remember that we had some incredibly young players in this team that are either in the first team picture, or have made a first team appearance.

Ok. What does that mean?

Their experience at this level gives them a massive platform to push on and help the club. How you can't see this just baffles me

I didn't say they shouldn't compete in it (try reading) of course the experience helps them. Do you think if we'd lost to Chelsea in the final that any of these lads would then have less of a chance of making it?

Surely if you're a fan of Aston Villa football club, you'd be excited at our team of players (who aren't U11) that could make an appearance for the first team in the near future do well?

When so many promising youngsters have gone on to be garbage for the first team i don't really see the point in getting excited about what they do for the youth team. I'll get excited once the likes of weimman show why i should be excited.

[StefanAVFC]

"try reading"

 

I'm done here.

[Big_John_10]

If youth football means nothing you would happily swap Aston Villa's youth team for that of Birmingham City.

I think we have more chance than Birmingham of producing a good player.

What they do at youth level doesn't mean anything though until they start doing it for the first team.

 

You have contradicted yourself in two sentences.

 

What they do at youth level does matter, otherwise you would swap Birmingham City's youth for our European cup winners.

 

The fact ours are showing so much evidence of talent is irrelevant to you. Bring Birmingham City's kids into our academy, we'll just as likely produce a good player.

 

Nonsense. Your unwillingness to swap our youth team for Birmingham City's shows you don't actually believe what you are saying.

I suppose I shouldn't bother given the bannan thread but I'll try.

I believe what these players do at senior level is all that counts.

I believe aston villa have a better chance of producing good players than birmingham city.

What those youth players do at youth level doesn't mean anything.

It doesn't guarantee they'll be great and it doesn't guarantee they'll be shit.

What's important is what these players do once they put on a first team shirt.

"try reading"

 

I'm done here.

That's the second time you've said that.

And I know this because I read your posts.

[Kingfisher]

What BJ10 is saying is, I think, and I don't want to speak for him, is ...he doesn't think that winning this tournament is any measure of how well the youth system is doing, and that can only be measured at the end point when promoted players are performing week in week out in the first team, therefore this means very little to nothing.

 

I disagree I think it shows signs that things are healthy, and that is worth unmitigated praise, with a well done to all involved and congratulations for winning.

 

As an aside I think BJ10 has refused to give a resounding well done lads because of his dislike for the current regime. I think he would have been on here playing a different tune had they crashed and burned. I think he would have cared then, which is obviously double standards. That is just my opinion of course.     

[Con]

You won't swap Aston Villa's U19s for Birmingham City's U19s for the simple reason these talented group of players have just won the European Championship.

 

That excites you, even if you don't admit it in so many obvious words (but we can read between your lines).

 

I don't know how many of this group are going to be great, the exact date they will achieve things with the first team, but you can bet they will get there at some point.

 

You don't win this youth cup without some great players who will make it at the highest level. Looking forward to their progress a lot.

 

Hope the entire XI and all the subs make it.

[Big_John_10]

What BJ10 is saying is, I think, and I don't want to speak for him, is ...he doesn't think that winning this tournament is any measure of how well the youth system is doing, and that can only be measured at the end point when promoted players are performing week in week out in the first team, therefore this means very little to nothing.

Yes, this is my view on it.

I disagree I think it shows signs that things are healthy,

I think the fact our fa youth cup winning team failed to succeed at this club makes me think this victory isn't proof of much.

I think he would have been on here playing a different tune had they crashed and burned. I think he would have cared then, which is obviously double standards. That is just my opinion of course.

I think that's absolute bullshit.

I hated the regime last year and didn't have a go when we didn't win it.

[Con]

The 2002 youth cup team gave us £10 million to spend.

 

Would you rather have Birmingham City's youth now, because if all else fails, they'd be more likely to give us £10 million transfer spending money? 

 

No, you already said you wanted our kids. You know they are good.

 

This one beat not just the best in England, the best in Europe. You can increase the worse-case-scenario £10 million by orders of magnitude.

[Big_John_10]

Quick question.

For those of you very excited about the likes of Grealish would your opinion of his potential have changed if we'd lost to Chelsea? Would you believe they'd have less chance of making it if we'd failed to win this competition?

When I saw carruthers make his brief cameo under Mcleish I saw glimpses of quality. My opinion of him would not have changed if the youth team had been knocked out early.

[Kingfisher]

I think the fact our fa youth cup winning team failed to succeed at this club makes me think this victory isn't proof of much. 

It's no guarantee, there are no guarantees in life, but it isn't a bad thing and certainly worth more credit than I believe you have given.

 

I think that's absolute bullshit.

I hated the regime last year and didn't have a go when we didn't win it.

You missed a trick there then, you tend to have a pop at any given opportunity. I think this is definitely related to your views on Lerner et all. Your general reluctance to say great, things seem to be looking good in that area is telling.  

[Con]

Quick question.

For those of you very excited about the likes of Grealish would your opinion of his potential have changed if we'd lost to Chelsea? Would you believe they'd have less chance of making it if we'd failed to win this competition?

When I saw carruthers make his brief cameo under Mcleish I saw glimpses of quality. My opinion of him would not have changed if the youth team had been knocked out early.

 

Yes. Before I thought he was very good. After winning it I think he's awesome. 

 

All the players went up a notch in my estimation after beating Chelsea. 

[Con]

I think the fact our fa youth cup winning team failed to succeed at this club makes me think this victory isn't proof of much. 

It's no guarantee, there are no guarantees in life, but it isn't a bad thing and certainly worth more credit than I believe you have given.

 

I would guarantee £10m from this squad, that is being ridiculously pessimistic. 

[Big_John_10]

I think this is definitely related to your views on Lerner et all. Your general reluctance to say great, things seem to be looking good in that area is telling

Well done then.

Ignore the actual evidence that I hated Lerner last year and we didn't win the nextgen cup and I didn't have a pop at them.

Ignore the fact I've stated I think being in the tournament is good experience for them.

Ignore the fact I've said my opinion of carruthers would not have changed if we'd been knocked out early.

That's good work.

[Kingfisher]

I think this is definitely related to your views on Lerner et all. Your general reluctance to say great, things seem to be looking good in that area is telling

Well done then.

Ignore the actual evidence that I hated Lerner last year and we didn't win the nextgen cup and I didn't have a pop at them.

Ignore the fact I've stated I think being in the tournament is good experience for them.

Ignore the fact I've said my opinion of carruthers would not have changed if we'd been knocked out early.

That's good work.

Well you can protest your innocence but I'm not convinced. Sorry.