Mic09 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, bickster said: You also don't have to accept that claim. I don't accept it because of the nebulous nature of the claim itself Ok, what book do you see as more influential? Why do you disagree with the claim that the bible is (for better or worse) the most important book in the history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: Ok, what book do you see as more influential? Why do you disagree with the claim that the bible is (for better or worse) the most important book in the history? Which one of these is the claim for starters? which version of the Bible is it you are talking about? The Bible isn't one book, it is thousands of different books all written to suit different agendas. there is no constant definitive bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 It's clearly been a massively important and influential book across the globe. To argue otherwise would be perverse. It doesn't mean it has to be popular here, or original or accurate. It simply means it's shaped entire continents. More so than any other text. I don't see what there is to argue with? Are the VT atheists really arguing it doesn't contain incredible stories? Or that it hasn't influenced them? Or that its texts havent been studied for thousands of years? Name a more influential book. Mao's little red book? Origin of Species? Catcher in the Rye? Granth Sahib? I can't think of anything that comes close. Even the original versions of texts and stories contained within it, on their own haven't had the reach of the bible. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: It's clearly been a massively important and influential book across the globe. To argue otherwise would be perverse. It doesn't mean it has to be popular here, or original or accurate. It simply means it's shaped entire continents. More so than any other text. I don't see what there is to argue with? Are the VT atheists really arguing it doesn't contain incredible stories? Or that it hasn't influenced them? Or that its texts havent been studied for thousands of years? Name a more influential book. Mao's little red book? Origin of Species? Catcher in the Rye? Granth Sahib? I can't think of anything that comes close. Even the original versions of texts and stories contained within it, on their own haven't had the reach of the bible. I really don't know how you can argue against the above. Well, you can, however I am yet to hear an argument that would go against the fact that the Bible (Old Testament, New Testament or combined) is the most important (again, for better or worse) written word of all time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted June 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2019 19 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Why? Is Bible not the most important book in the history of mankind? You don't have to be religious at all to accept that claim. In fact, you can be a stone cold atheist. No it is not the most important book in the history of mankind ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said: No it is not the most important book in the history of mankind ...... Could you please give an example of a more important book in history? Edited June 7, 2019 by Mic09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, Villan_of_oz said: No it is not the most important book in the history of mankind ...... go on then, what's the correct answer Not aimed at you specifically, but I think some might be thinking the claim is that it's the best most brilliant original and true book ever. That's not what was said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted June 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, Mic09 said: Could you please give an example of a more important book in history? By important, I mean influential, having the widest reach, the most commonly read, being written and influenced by the widest number of people. That is your definition of important, it is clear that we are going to disagree so let's not waste each other's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted June 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: go on then, what's the correct answer Not aimed at you specifically, but I think some might be thinking the claim is that it's the best most brilliant original and true book ever. That's not what was said. Harry Potter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, Villan_of_oz said: That is your definition of important, it is clear that we are going to disagree so let's not waste each other's time. That's what a forum is about - discussion. Could you please give an example of a more important book in the human history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted June 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, Mic09 said: That's what a forum is about - discussion. Could you please give an example of a more important book in the human history? You've defined what you believe to be important, you're controlling the boundaries of the topic. Therefore it isnt a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, Villan_of_oz said: Harry Potter! Ok - book of a boy fighting evil, sacrificing himself to save his friends and loved ones against all odds. Book where people believe in supernatural and mythical and where symbolism runs so deep, it reaches the foundations of what we perceive as good and bad. His father and mother have given their life to save Harry. Sounds a bit like a story that was covered in the bible a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, Villan_of_oz said: Harry Potter! Well, I think the Aztecs and the Incas would probably disagree. I'm not sure it had much impact on the Holy Roman Empire either. Or birth control in Africa. But yeah, if that's where you're at, that's cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Villan_of_oz said: You've defined what you believe to be important, you're controlling the boundaries of the topic. Therefore it isnt a discussion. That is my definition - please feel free to give your definition and let's see if we can find some common ground. It's an open discussion. This is not aimed at you, but I absolutely hate when people want a conversation and say 'this is shit' 'this is not true' 'you are wrong'. Argue your point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 The dictionary is the most important book IMO. Pretty much all the words in this thread have been lifted from it so it's far more influential. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted June 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mic09 said: That is my definition - please feel free to give your definition and let's see if we can find some common ground. It's an open discussion. This is not aimed at you, but I absolutely hate when people want a conversation and say 'this is shit' 'this is not true' 'you are wrong'. Argue your point! In your original post you made it clear you think my opinion and anyone who disagrees with you are wrong..... I absolutely hate when people state their opinion as fact and then use condescending and patronising means to push the agenda ...... PS this isn't aimed at you. Edited June 7, 2019 by Villan_of_oz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 7, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: It's clearly been a massively important and influential book across the globe. To argue otherwise would be perverse. It doesn't mean it has to be popular here, or original or accurate. It simply means it's shaped entire continents. More so than any other text. I don't see what there is to argue with? Are the VT atheists really arguing it doesn't contain incredible stories? Or that it hasn't influenced them? Or that its texts havent been studied for thousands of years? Name a more influential book. Mao's little red book? Origin of Species? Catcher in the Rye? Granth Sahib? I can't think of anything that comes close. Even the original versions of texts and stories contained within it, on their own haven't had the reach of the bible. This is correct. The two stances taken above (it's one of the most influential books in human history AND it's a jumble of irrelevant bits of propaganda) are in no way mutually exclusive. As an anthology of historical literature I find it absolutely fascinating; as a theological rulebook, not at all. Edited June 7, 2019 by mjmooney 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said: In your original post you made it clear you think my opinion and anyone who disagrees with you are wrong..... I absolutely hate when people state their opinion as fact and then use condescending and patronising means to push the agenda ...... PS this isn't aimed at you. Ok, so we are not going to have a discussion. I said why I disagree. I was expecting to find a common ground or a reason why you don't see the Bible as the most important book in history. I thought that is what a forum is for. If you don't want to give your reasons, that is fine. Nice use of sarcasm by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2019 More people have lived in the last 100 years than have ever lived in the history of the human race, so I'm going for the Communist Manifesto being as there are 1.5 Billion people in China alone (directly living under the influence of a form of communism) and about 2 Billion Chistians in the world but many of those Christians are of the type that really don't let their religion get in the way of what they want to do and largely ignore it because saying they are is just an easy label for themselves. then you'd have to shout for the Koran given there are 1.6 Billion Muslims in worrld and Muslims tend to be much more devout that Christians Saying the Bible is the most influential or important book in the world is just looking from a Western Christian perspective. The claim is nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 but it is hard to say it is not hugely influential. The fact that that it has been based upon ludicrous superstition and ignorance and has mostly been a useful tool for controlling and enforcing conformism within societies remains a tragedy that has endowed us with a massive embuggerance in terms of trying to undo the messy consequences of its poison pen bollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts