CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Guys, guys. I just ate a banana. I held it in my hand, peeled it, then it hit me. This is just so right. Almost as if it was designed especially for us. In fact, come to think of it, it must have been. No other explaination, and now I'll put my fingers in my ears (also very convenient, huh?)and ignore any possible counter-arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Not a single mention of religion or God but his 1hr long lecture based on the book he wrote - does state the case very well for questioning matters regarding the origin of life and the complexity of the cell making it hard to explain without having the intervention from a higher intelligence. . And in your opinion, what would this so called higher intelligence be ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2012 Firstly, it's important not to go down the convenient road that our ancestors went down. Just because you don't currently have the answer to a problem does not mean the default explanation is spiritual. Secondly, 'higher intelligence' is an interesting term worthy of discussion. I'd like to see a Venn diagram of people who believe or don't believe in a God versus people who believe or don't believe in the existence of extra terrestrial life. For example, we're a higher intelligence than the slug. If you make us the slug, is there something out there to take the place of the human? But even with that in mind, is that what most people think of as being 'God'? I don't think so. God to most is spiritual, magical, unseen, ethereal. Even though there is a mathematical probability that there is higher life out there, I don't think that's what most believers in God think of as being God. They don't have him sitting on [insert planet name] watching us on his equivalent of CCTV. Though that's the one area where the scientologists have it over everyone else. There is more likelyhood of theirs happening (i.e. aliens coming and bringing them to wherever they're going) than of Christianity's happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2012 The Uk is a Nanny state. Wayne Rooney would be delighted to hear that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 It's statistically more likely for us to be a computer simulation than not. But statistics also have Leon Britton as one of the best players in Europe. Hmm. I'd say a higher intelligence in terms of some smart aliens is a fair enough thing to believe in, because the universe is a bit big and there is plenty of opportunity for other life to pop up. Higher intelligence in terms of some celestial being, I can't quite buy into. The Universe is far too chaotic and random to have been a product of something 'other-worldly'. At least from what we know, if some chap declares the Universe abides by a few simple rules then you start to wonder. I don't think it does though, I think the rules came after the event ie an attempt to create order, rather than being in place before hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2012 Well yeah the universe is very big. Much bigger than even, say, France. It's the celestial distinction I was getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 If you think it's unlikely that the splendour of the universe could have just "come into existence", isn't it even MORE unlikely that an entity that could simply create all this could come into existence? (Thank you Dawkins) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Well yeah the universe is very big. Much bigger than even, say, France.You have a reassuringly good grip on geography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2012 Well yeah the universe is very big. Much bigger than even, say, France.You have a reassuringly good grip on geography. I was trying to be a bit 'Douglas Adams' with the comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 You can't go wrong with Douglas. In terms of how it all began, it is a point religious types always bring up. But as far as we know the big bang was only the begining of this observable universe. It is believed to have been kicked into action by a 'wave' of quantum fluctuations (hence the splotches in the background radtion pic). What caused this sudden burst of energy, when more energy than normal existed momentarily in our 'side' of the universe? And, if God did it, why was he sitting about in the dark for so long? I've probably got some of that wrong btw, but it's a tricky subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2012 You got it all wrong my friend, the big man upstairs made it all. Remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Refusing to enter this debate because of past experiences - but just thought this might be of interest.... I came across this video from Stephen D Meyer - Cambridge Graduate on You Tube, some time ago about the case for Intelligent Design. Not a single mention of religion or God but his 1hr long lecture based on the book he wrote - does state the case very well for questioning matters regarding the origin of life and the complexity of the cell making it hard to explain without having the intervention from a higher intelligence. The website Centre for Intelligent Design Asks some very poignant questions about Evolution as well as the origin of life, without getting embroiled in Creationist arguments (eg supposedly that the Bible teaches the young Earth theory, which it doesn't etc) or religion in anyway whatsoever eg the metamorphosis of a caterpillar into a butterfly. Literally a creature that dies, turns itself into an organic soup within it's self made coccoon only for the DNA to reform into a completely different creature and the questions this raises for natural selection. The video on the site about the Butterfly - fascinated me so a while ago I emailed Dr Alastair Noble about research on the organic soup created by the chrysalis and whether any research was being done regarding the supposed organic soup from where life was supposed to originate from if NO intelligent designer was in place. He took the time out to send me a an interesting response as well and said this is something they would investigate further. *Facepalm* Julie - why did you post this if you're not entering the debate? Have you ever actually read anything on evolution that was not written by a creationist or featured on a creationist website? Please, PLEASE, for the love of all that is Holy, learn something about evolution before you post this tripe about charlatans that have been refuted and disproven countless times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Oh, yes. God did it. He was all 'let there be light and some lasses I can perv on when they get a shower' then, like, lots of shit you don't really need to care about happened and here we are now. Though some began to wonder and God was al 'them bitches be crazy, them be askin' shit that may compromise my authority' and so he wrote a book and said to bash those who dared to question heads in. Yeah, that about covers it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted May 11, 2012 Administrator Share Posted May 11, 2012 Considering the hundreds of billions of solar systems in our galaxy, and the hundreds of billions of galaxies in our universe and the tiny amount of time humans have been around, then if a god exists, how likely is it that it has even noticed us? And if it has, ins't it more likely to perceive us as at best a symbiotic life form and at worst a cancer? If we can undergo a little cognitive dissonance and accept that we can talk by magic to god, shouldn't we be stopping the religious from praying in case they make god aware we're exploiting its creation? I mean, look at what we do to things that shouldn't be growing in us. Of course, rational people know we don't need to worry. There isn't a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2012 Julie - why did you post this if you're not entering the debate? Its her catchphrase... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted May 11, 2012 Administrator Share Posted May 11, 2012 In terms of how it all began, it is a point religious types always bring up. But as far as we know the big bang was only the begining of this observable universe. Time as it is currently defined in physics did not exist before the singularity. The time dimension came into existence at the same time as all the other dimensions. We don't have a model which allows for something to have happened before the singularity. Such a model would involve something like division of dimensions which is (currently) meaningless. Trying to go further back in time than the singularity is like going to the south pole and then continuing to head south. The great thing about science is that if we develop new models which explain things, we can then apply those models to create experiments to determine whether they are true and revise our understanding as we confirm things. A lot of scientists are trying to determine whether there was something before the singularity. At present it's just thinking. Thankfully rational thinkers aren't required to believe in unchanging contradictory stone age fairy stories edited multiple times to fit an agenda and interpreted to suit a different agenda. Let alone to have "faith" that the fairy stories are real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton65ca Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Considering the hundreds of billions of solar systems in our galaxy, and the hundreds of billions of galaxies in our universe and the tiny amount of time humans have been around, then if a god exists, how likely is it that it has even noticed us? And if it has, ins't it more likely to perceive us as at best a symbiotic life form and at worst a cancer? If we can undergo a little cognitive dissonance and accept that we can talk by magic to god, shouldn't we be stopping the religious from praying in case they make god aware we're exploiting its creation? I mean, look at what we do to things that shouldn't be growing in us. Of course, rational people know we don't need to worry. There isn't a god. speaking for the moment as a "devil's" advocate, the Xtian response to that is "Your God is too small, mine is intimately aware and interested in us all, and interjected himself into history in order to prove it". That is what I used to say in answer to those sorts of statements. Omnipotence and omniscience do allow for the deity to be completely and absolutely particular in terms of each and every living being in the entire cosmos. Load o bollocks of course but that would be the Xtian response to your statements I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I have been reading Focus magazine and New Scientist for a few years now. The idea that our universe is alone is nearly redundant. The Multiverse appears to be a very real and testable theory by all accounts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 *Facepalm* Julie - why did you post this if you're not entering the debate? Have you ever actually read anything on evolution that was not written by a creationist or featured on a creationist website? Please, PLEASE, for the love of all that is Holy, learn something about evolution before you post this tripe about charlatans that have been refuted and disproven countless times! It's what she does; pretend she isn't interested, when of course her particular brand of religion insists that she cannot ignore the opportunity to spread religious lies. These will be followed by large amounts of cut and paste quotes from Jehovah's Witness websites passed off as her own work. 100% of which is "bad science" that anybody who hasn't been brain-washed can drive a coach and horses through. Then there will be quotes from some random "scientist" working for Cowdung University in some Alabama backwater that proves that the vast majority of scientists accept that Creation is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2012 Much of that is post on poster, and against the site's guidelines, Martin. One night, a man had a dream. He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the Lord. Across the sky flashed scenes from his life. For each scene, he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand. One belonged to him, and the other to the Lord. When the last scene of his life flashed before him, he looked back at the footprints in the sand, and he noticed that many times along the path of his life, there was only one set of footprints. He also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times of his life. This really bothered him, and he questioned the Lord about it: “Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you, you would walk with me all the way. Yet I have noticed during the most troublesome times of my life, there’s only one set of footprints. I don’t understand why, when I needed you most, you would leave me.” The Lord replied: “My precious precious child, I love you, and would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, that must have been when I was appearing on… Junior Kickstart… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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