All-Purpose Religion Thread

[AVFCforever1991]

Catholic schools in the UK tend to have a better education system, that was the only reason I was put in a catholic school, oh and I was Catholic , I did not believe a word of what they told me about religion nor the bible..Been at catholic school since I was 5-16 and it was a better education than the state school, still didnt help me:P

[A.J.Rimmer]

My God, this thread has become a non believer's love in!

Tell me... I remember reading on VT that the other lot were all deeply devout.

Is that really true, or not?

If so, I'm in the wrong place and should be straightening them out over there.

[bickster]

Catholic schools in the UK tend to have a better education system, that was the only reason I was put in a catholic school, oh and I was Catholic , I did not believe a word of what they told me about religion nor the bible..Been at catholic school since I was 5-16 and it was a better education than the state school, still didnt help me:P

It's the threat of being anally raped that makes young boys learn, not sure why it hasn't caught on in other forms of teaching...

[Voinjama]

The thread is lacking in believers though. Those who say we are just preaching to the converted (joke intended) have a point, so far.

I was just about to say this. Hardly any believers, which is sad.

And I am indirectly responsible for the starting of this thread, as I am sure you will agree.

[norton65ca]

From past threads that I've read on this forum about this topic (while I was a believer and since...), It's a pretty hostile crowd from the perspective of the believer, so I would think it would take a fairly enthusiastic and knowledgeable Christian to declare himself. (By knowledgeable, he'd have to be prepared both biblically speaking and specifically in apologetics.)

[norton65ca]

The death of faith, is never pleasant

Hmm, for me it wasn't. In fact I found it quite liberating.

It's getting much more like that now, truth be told, but you see the thing is that it was a process I was trying to control.

My initial intention was to examine the faith with a view towards moving away from the traditional evangelical interpretation into perhaps a Universalist perspective. I wanted to get rid of the literalism and legalism that had infected my outlook and theology, and move into a perhaps more mystical approach. Things like the doctrines of predestination, heaven and hell, the Judgement Seat etc etc... I had huge issues with these things and the overall exclusivity and arrogance of the faith. What actually transpired was, after a few weeks of intense study and examination, a process that rapidly began to unravel in front of my eyes.

I had attempted to keep the essence of this faith intact, but when the bible basically collapsed as an authoritative document, then all the central tenets of Christianity came into question; truly, if the bible cannot be realistically looked upon as the Word of God, an inspired document, then the whole thing pretty much goes into the skip. I hadn't expected to have the process come apart in my hands, and in a matter of one brutal evening, I lost my faith that there was a loving creator god, and all the other things that go along with that.

Unless one has been behind the walls of aggressively proselytizing, apocalyptic, messianic religion, it must be very difficult to relate to this, I can see that.

Since that time (not all that long ago to be honest) I do feel liberated as you note, It's amazing, but there are aspects to it that are hard to swallow, the idea of nothing beyond death is a little hard to get used to, and makes me feel decidedly uncomfortable, however it has impressed me with the intense need and desire to milk the time while I have it, so to speak.

[Awol]

Humans seem to be hard wired to worship something and as religious faith has retreated in the West the vacuum has been filled by money, music/film stars, power, etc.

The question is whether there is anything out there that is worth worshipping, that won't turn us into monsters. If the hole can filled with a benign God (i.e. cuddly New Testament rather than hellfire Old Testament variety) maybe it's the least worst option?

[mjmooney]

Humans seem to be hard wired to worship something and as religious faith has retreated in the West the vacuum has been filled by money, music/film stars, power, etc.

The question is whether there is anything out there that is worth worshipping, that won't turn us into monsters. If the hole can filled with a benign God (i.e. cuddly New Testament rather than hellfire Old Testament variety) maybe it's the least worst option?

This is one of my biggest issues with religion - worship. I find the whole concept bizarre and repugnant.

Of course, historically we have gone from tribal to feudal to class-ridden societies, all of which had the entrenched concept of 'knowing one's place' and deference to one's 'superiors'. Which fits in perfectly with the idea of a 'Lord' that we have to fear, respect and grovel to.

As someone who grew up in a democratic/egalitarian/leftist culture, I've never had a scrap of that attitude. I respect all people from toilet cleaners to royalty, until they give me reason not to. I expect no more and no less from them in return. And I detest bullies. It's an attitude that has got me into trouble more than once at school and in the workplace, but I don't care.

So the idea of 'praising' an invisible being is simply beyond absurd.

[Bazdavies79]

My Grandfather only has a few hours left, just got the call. It's important to me that I go and see him today, because I'm pretty damn sure there is no heaven and when he's gone that will be that, forever. It feels horrible, but it's the truth.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

As someone who grew up in a democratic/egalitarian/leftist culture, I've never had a scrap of that attitude. I respect all people from toilet cleaners to royalty, until they give me reason not to. I expect no more and no less from them in return. And I detest bullies. It's an attitude that has got me into trouble more than once at school and in the workplace, but I don't care.

I think with that post the thread can close. That´s all people need to know IMO.

[BOF]

Sorry to hear that Baz.

[bickster]

Sorry to hear that Baz.

Same here, good luck hope you get there in time.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I don't think we are hardwired to believe/worship one thing or the other, not like we are hardwired for language etc

I think it has more to do with us being death aware. We stand alone in that respect. We know we are going to die, and for many years that has proved a troublesome thought. Most human behaviours can come down to being death aware, ambition being an example. We want to do something with our lives, because we know we have only x amount of time. No other animal has made this jump, and it is this which religion initially helped with.

I do however think some people have a greater... Predilction for worship. I'm unsure if that behaviour is biological or not, but I know a lot of people side with the idea of a 'religion' gene.

[AVFCforever1991]

We are hardwired, to follow.. Like Sheep.

[norton65ca]

CS Lewis once wrote something along the lines of: If there truly is a God, who is the maker of all the worlds, and he is intimately aware of us and further than that, is concerned and cares for us, then the only appropriate response to that reality is to adore and worship him.

Too bad he was wrong

[Awol]

My Grandfather only has a few hours left, just got the call. It's important to me that I go and see him today, because I'm pretty damn sure there is no heaven and when he's gone that will be that, forever. It feels horrible, but it's the truth.

Hopefully you'll spare him that speech.

[mjmooney]

CS Lewis once wrote something along the lines of: If there truly is a God, who is the maker of all the worlds, and he is intimately aware of us and further than that, is concerned and cares for us, then the only appropriate response to that reality is to adore and worship him.

Too bad he was wrong

Big "if", isn't it?

[norton65ca]

My Grandfather only has a few hours left, just got the call. It's important to me that I go and see him today, because I'm pretty damn sure there is no heaven and when he's gone that will be that, forever. It feels horrible, but it's the truth.

Hopefully you'll spare him that speech.

No kidding, I'm very sorry to hear of your potential impending loss, but it matters not to your grandad at this point.

Now, if the TRUTH was the other way round, yes, I'd be havin' a talk, since the consequences would be dire...

but they're not.

[norton65ca]

CS Lewis once wrote something along the lines of: If there truly is a God, who is the maker of all the worlds, and he is intimately aware of us and further than that, is concerned and cares for us, then the only appropriate response to that reality is to adore and worship him.

Too bad he was wrong

Big "if", isn't it?

very.

but from the inside, the perspective is quite different. Oh I could chat about this stuff for hours.

[mjmooney]

CS Lewis once wrote something along the lines of: If there truly is a God, who is the maker of all the worlds, and he is intimately aware of us and further than that, is concerned and cares for us, then the only appropriate response to that reality is to adore and worship him.

Too bad he was wrong

Big "if", isn't it?

very.

but from the inside, the perspective is quite different. Oh I could chat about this stuff for hours.

Please do, that's what the thread's for.

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.