CrackpotForeigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Also, a right-wing christian is a paradox.Well, it should be, but have you ever visited the American South/Mid-West? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 There will always be war. Also, a right-wing christian is a paradox. Why> Is it because of the whole "easier for a camel" thing? (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Nope, I wouldn't make it out alive. American christianity is an oddity. It derives from chaps that believed your fate was decided before you were born. That through building a personal wealth you could appease God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 It derives from chaps that believed your fate was decided before you were born Odd that you think so, I thought Calvinists were just one out of many sects in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 There will always be war. Also, a right-wing christian is a paradox. Why> Is it because of the whole "easier for a camel" thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 11, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2012 It's the natural life cycle of a religion. JC appealed to the disenfranchised and downtrodden in the Roman Empire, with all that "the meek shall inherit the earth" stuff. Dangerous revolutionary talk. But when you can't beat 'em, buy 'em out. The Emperor Constantine pulled a clever stunt by converting, thus co-opting Christianity into the ruling establishment, in a Microsoft style takeover. Mainstream Xtianity has been the religion of the mainstream powers-that-be in the west ever since (despite frequent efforts by nonconformist sects to reclaim it for the underdogs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 One of many, yes, but their influence on capitalism is there for all to see. And America is above all else a capitalist country. As for the right-wing christian being a paradox, of course it is. But it depends on how you interpret what a christian is; one who follows christ, or one who follows the bible. Jefferson made his own version of the bible, which essentially edited out all the gibberish and stuck to what jebus said, and from that you would be hard pressed to think he is anything other than a yoghurt knitting liberal. I really don't see how a supposed first-world country could have christian politicians so strongly opposed to universal health care, and so strongly for the death penalty. It is baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Jefferson was a very impressive bloke. I used to be a bit bored by the reverence he gets in some quarters, but reading some of the things he said changed my mind. Left to the likes of him, America would still be the "Land of the Free". *crosses fingers that nobody mentions slaves at this point* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 CrackpotForeigner, would you say that Australia is the new LOTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 As for the right-wing christian being a paradox, of course it is Tbh, you could have just said "they are a bunch of hypocrites" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 CrackpotForeigner, would you say that Australia is the new LOTF? Nope. It's a **** police state in a lot of ways, and the cops are no smarter than the ones you see on American reality cop shows. A couple of weeks ago I parked my bike in a spot three yards from the road, on the tarmac, away from the pavement, nowhere near fire hydrants, disabled access, etc. It just so happened that there was a "No Stopping" sign two feet to one side of where I parked (because there was a traffic circle further along the road). When I protested at being handed a TWO HUNDRED AND SIX DOLLAR fine for "disobeying a No Stopping sign", I was told that parking there was "an offence". (Yeah, okay, so whom exactly am I offending?) Now I could have just taken up a car space and parked for free, but things were busy and I just chose a spot which would cause the least inconvenience to anyone. Silly me for trying to actually think. Then I have heard first hand stories of people lighting up reefers in isolated public areas and being bust by UNDER COVER cops! (Uniformed Bobbies, fair enough I s'pose, but under cover?!?) [Apologies for going off topic here. I blame Legov, the **** word removed ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 11, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2012 CrackpotForeigner, would you say that Australia is the new LOTF? Nope. It's a **** police state in a lot of ways, and the cops are no smarter than the ones you see on American reality cop shows. A couple of weeks ago I parked my bike in a spot three yards from the road, on the tarmac, away from the pavement, nowhere near fire hydrants, disabled access, etc. It just so happened that there was a "No Stopping" sign two feet to one side of where I parked (because there was a traffic circle further along the road). When I protested at being handed a TWO HUNDRED AND SIX DOLLAR fine for "disobeying a No Stopping sign", I was told that parking there was "an offence". (Yeah, okay, so whom exactly am I offending?) Now I could have just taken up a car space and parked for free, but things were busy and I just chose a spot which would cause the least inconvenience to anyone. Silly me for trying to actually think. Then I have heard first hand stories of people lighting up reefers in isolated public areas and being bust by UNDER COVER cops! (Uniformed Bobbies, fair enough I s'pose, but under cover?!?) [Apologies for going off topic here. I blame Legov, the **** word removed ] Interesting that your refutation of the 'land of the free' tag was all about parking restrictions, rather than the treatment of the aboriginal people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Interesting that your refutation of the 'land of the free' tag was all about parking restrictions, rather than the treatment of the aboriginal people. ?? Bloody hell, I don't know where to start with that. Have I offended you somewhere? 1. The aboriginal population is a tiny minority, so their "treatment" isn't a day-to-day issue in the way parking my bike is, I'm sorry to say. 2. Speaking generally, the aboriginal population are victims of poor education, alcoholism and domestic abuse far more than they are victims of police injustices (although they are definitely frequent victims of the latter as well). 3. Police forces worldwide attract brutes and bullies, and the stories of police abuse of aborigines are sadly neither surprising nor unique to Australia (although obviously the ethnicity of these particular victims is unique to Australia). 4. The aborigines are no less free than anyone else in the country, by law, anyway. 5. My gripe, if you read what I wrote, wasn't about "parking restrictions", but about mindless and authoritarian enforcement of parking restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 CrackpotForeigner, would you say that Australia is the new LOTF? Nope. It's a **** police state in a lot of ways, and the cops are no smarter than the ones you see on American reality cop shows. A couple of weeks ago I parked my bike in a spot three yards from the road, on the tarmac, away from the pavement, nowhere near fire hydrants, disabled access, etc. It just so happened that there was a "No Stopping" sign two feet to one side of where I parked (because there was a traffic circle further along the road). When I protested at being handed a TWO HUNDRED AND SIX DOLLAR fine for "disobeying a No Stopping sign", I was told that parking there was "an offence". (Yeah, okay, so whom exactly am I offending?) Now I could have just taken up a car space and parked for free, but things were busy and I just chose a spot which would cause the least inconvenience to anyone. Silly me for trying to actually think. Then I have heard first hand stories of people lighting up reefers in isolated public areas and being bust by UNDER COVER cops! (Uniformed Bobbies, fair enough I s'pose, but under cover?!?) [Apologies for going off topic here. I blame Legov, the **** word removed ] Undercover cops? This sounds familiar... Anyway, shitty policemen, every country has them, imo it hardly qualifies as justification for calling a country a police state. The reason why I brought the issue of "the land of the free" up though, is that there are, as far as I can see, obvious contrasts between America and Australia. Not least the difference in immigration policies - the Australian government is, as far as I'm aware, far more open to immigrants (hence the burgeoning Asian population there, in particular). Freedom of movement - including the freedom to move across borders and choose where to work/settle - is for me a fundamental human right that really should be discussed about more often, and in this regard Australia is much more "free" than the supposed vanguard of the free world, which is really hypocritical on the part of America, if you think about it, given that 99% of them are either immigrants themselves or descendants of recent immigrants, many of whom were of course unskilled menial workers who would not stand a chance of getting into the country legally if they were alive today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The Uk is a Nanny state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Is it ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The Uk is a Nanny state. Says who? Singapore The city state of Singapore has a reputation as a nanny state, owing to the considerable number of government regulations and restrictions on its citizens' lives. Former Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew, the architect of the modern Singapore, observed, "If Singapore is a nanny state, then I am proud to have fostered one."[4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Refusing to enter this debate because of past experiences - but just thought this might be of interest.... I came across this video from Stephen D Meyer - Cambridge Graduate on You Tube, some time ago about the case for Intelligent Design. Not a single mention of religion or God but his 1hr long lecture based on the book he wrote - does state the case very well for questioning matters regarding the origin of life and the complexity of the cell making it hard to explain without having the intervention from a higher intelligence. The website Centre for Intelligent Design Asks some very poignant questions about Evolution as well as the origin of life, without getting embroiled in Creationist arguments (eg supposedly that the Bible teaches the young Earth theory, which it doesn't etc) or religion in anyway whatsoever eg the metamorphosis of a caterpillar into a butterfly. Literally a creature that dies, turns itself into an organic soup within it's self made coccoon only for the DNA to reform into a completely different creature and the questions this raises for natural selection. The video on the site about the Butterfly - fascinated me so a while ago I emailed Dr Alastair Noble about research on the organic soup created by the chrysalis and whether any research was being done regarding the supposed organic soup from where life was supposed to originate from if NO intelligent designer was in place. He took the time out to send me a an interesting response as well and said this is something they would investigate further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Refusing to enter this debate You always say that, then proceed to do the exact opposite. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Undercover cops? This sounds familiar... Anyway, shitty policemen, every country has them, imo it hardly qualifies as justification for calling a country a police state. The reason why I brought the issue of "the land of the free" up though, is that there are, as far as I can see, obvious contrasts between America and Australia. Not least the difference in immigration policies - the Australian government is, as far as I'm aware, far more open to immigrants (hence the burgeoning Asian population there, in particular). Freedom of movement - including the freedom to move across borders and choose where to work/settle - is for me a fundamental human right that really should be discussed about more often, and in this regard Australia is much more "free" than the supposed vanguard of the free world, which is really hypocritical on the part of America, if you think about it, given that 99% of them are either immigrants themselves or descendants of recent immigrants, many of whom were of course unskilled menial workers who would not stand a chance of getting into the country legally if they were alive today. Well, imo, sneaking up on misbehaving citizens and then nailing them with an "aaHA, got you!" is symptomatic of a state which has forgotten the proper role of its police force. i.e. a police state (and yes I know it could be worse and probably is in some places, but that doesn't make it right). Fwiw I have spent more than six months in six different countries, so it's not as though I have nothing to compare Australia with. Regarding immigration: Not having tried to enter the country as a non-skilled worker (I'm a SKILLED worker, me ) I can't say how free the immigration laws are, although there do seem to be a lot of unskilled new immigrants around. I totally agree with you that freedom of movement should be a fundamental human right, but just about every State in the world would not only disagree, but regard that idea as dangerous. If I'm being totally honest I do also have selfish thoughts about keeping the local labour market small for my own benefit, but so do most people, which I guess is why governments restrict things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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