The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[CI]

Watching those Liverpool highlights was painful as we should have lost by 4 or 5 goals.

The only positive to come out the game was we had luck on our side. Mcleish has to go.

Was it actually that bad ? Still waiting to hear from somebody who went

[John_Lerwill]

Watching those Liverpool highlights was painful as we should have lost by 4 or 5 goals.

The only positive to come out the game was we had luck on our side. Mcleish has to go.

Was it actually that bad ? Still waiting to hear from somebody who went

I saw it on the box.

Villa were playing a well-below par 'Pool who gave Villa too much space in the first 15 minutes. During that time, Villa looked bright. As the game wore on, Pool were allowed to take over - especially in the second half.

Villa could easily have lost but not by much. 'Pool were not the side of even 2 or 3 years ago. They seem to have lost some of their spirit - even Gerrard didn't look quite the same.

Villa's youngsters mostly shaped up well, though, and Given and Collins were great.

Given Villa's circumstances in the League, their performance was good i.m.o. To not have played those tactics (11 behind the ball in the s-h) may well have given 'Pool the winner.

[chappy]

"I know the lads in the dressing room want to go again, such is the high of the draw and state of mind they are in.

:shock:

[Ads]

I left Anfield feeling pleased with the point and given how much effort they put in, I don't see why the players shouldn't feel the same.

As for the manager, I don't think he's had us playing long ball. I would actually challenge anybody to tell me what on earth style of play he has us utilising. I look back at Stamford Bridge as a rare example of style that's actually worked this term.

[Brumstopdogs]

Watching those Liverpool highlights was painful as we should have lost by 4 or 5 goals.

The only positive to come out the game was we had luck on our side. Mcleish has to go.

Was it actually that bad ? Still waiting to hear from somebody who went

Yes, it was all Liverpool. At least we went past the half way line a couple of times though.

[Morpheus]

Eh, yes he did. So we were to carry on then with no specialized RB when Young left? I remember another manager receiving untold stick on here playing centrebacks at RB.

No, no we didn't.

McLeish had a choice, in fact he had at least a couple. He had players who could have played RB, he opted not to use them and he opted to sign Hutton.

Nobody forced him to sign a RB and nobody forced him to sign Hutton those were his decisions, he wasn't in anyway a victim of circumstance in making them.

He I would presume knew what budget he had in terms of signing players and he knew the weakness of the squad but he decided to buy a RB when he could have made do with what he had.

Yes O'Neill got stick for playing CB's at RB but that is entirely different. Martin O'Neill had huge amounts of money to spend but for almost 2 years didn't buy a RB. Instead he paid nearly £8m for a CB and pushed him out there. O'Neill deserved the stick he got.

If McLeish hadn't signed Hutton and had used the money for other areas I think most would have understood his logic. Next to nobody thought RB was a priority last summer especially given that we had no cover at all for Warnock on the other side of the pitch yet we had at least 3 players able to play RB.

But we hadn't an experienced specialized FB and thats why Hutton was purchased, to exactly strengthen a weakness! You cannot slate a manager for buying what we didn't have and had been crying out for some time. Thats what i mean by slating a manager just because you don't like him.

I didn't say that purchasing Hutton made AM a victim of circumstance and i would suggest that you stop putting words in my mouth just to suit your debate.

I wholly agree with your point about O'Neill and as previously stated, thats why AM quickly identified the weakness at RB and purchased Hutton.

[Mazrim]

We controlled it early on, scored, played o.k for the rest of the half but sat back too much. The second half was too negative but a great effort.

Had we went looking for more goals and lost he would have been panned but he was perhaps too restrained as Liverpool were looking vulnerable until we retreated.

I'm no fan of McLeish but we're a struggling side hammered with injuries and we got a draw at Anfield, which no matter what the circumstances is usually a pretty good effort.

I'm not sure we can be anything but pleased with it.

Celebrating it as some mighty acheivement is not worthy of Aston Villa though.

[Morpheus]

I am not pro McCleish, he wasn't on my list of managerial choice and i don't think he was on any Villa fans, so much of my criticism of Lerner and our situation stems from his staggering arrogance and delusion in appointing a manager no-one wanted.

But let's look at it from Eck's viewpoint, he was offered a step up from a Championship side - who from what I gather have been sent backwards by multiple owner changes corruption and meddling in managerial affairs. It was rumored that may signings were not down to him and his relationship with the top brass was broken by the end. Now his stupidity at thinking he could walk the divide between two same City clubs who hate each other is baffling, especially with a record that has been less than stellar in recent years. But I find our intense hatred of him is misplaced.

Let's state some facts

1) He inherited a club stripped of it's best players, on the back of a relegation battle that was only won in the last few games. Criminal wages and players alienated by either MON in the past or Houllier in the more recent past. A catalogue of mismanagement, high wages and bad transfer decisions, created a deflated team with very little central technical or creative ability. MON played a system with counter attacking forwards and wingers, there was never a plan B or a central back bone to that team. In my opinion it was more baffling why we failed last season than this season as Milner aside much of the team that MON had were still there last season, some would say Houller did make us play in a much more passing and technical way by the end, but i don't think we would be much better off under him once Downing and Young were gone - nor would we be much worse!

2) I don't think Eck plays negatively on purpose, but there are times you get the impression he doesn't believe in the squad he has - or rather he is still getting to know and understand the players he has. We just expected him to come in on a wave of negative press and vibe with a bunch of players who have seen their team mates sold off or been frozen out of the team.

3) What Eck did wrong was continuously fail to work out how to play the players he has and get the best from Nzogbia, but he needed time and patience, time and patience that we weren't prepared to give him because collectively we are all hurting from what happened with MON, what happened with Houllier and the players who have left, and the manner of his appointment.

4) The cruel irony is when Ireland, Zoggy and Keane were on the pitch we didn't play negatively, Hutton looked ok and you could see what Eck was trying to do. This doesn't excuse all the other terrible performances and tactics deployed but you have to look at what Eck has been given to work with. If Zog, Dunne, Clark, Bent, Petrov were all available i genuinely think we would have found a few more wins by now and be close to safety. I am not saying we be anywhere near the team we should be and Eck embraced and about too live happily ever after, but people have to admit our injury problems this season have been appalling, in fact over the last two seasons they have completely destroyed any sees of hope of momentum we have had, our luck has been a **** disgrace.

5) Eck did manage to get Ireland, Cuellar playing and playing well, Petrov and Gabby looked pretty decent and rejuvenated at times. He brought Warnock back from the brink, ok so the jury is out on Warnock and maybe still on Hutton but both have looked quite solid of late. He has also done pretty well with the youngsters although he hasn't really stuck with any of them through choice, Herd is the only player guaranteed to start when fit, Bannan, Lichaj, Gardener and Baker are all cameos or players who we have no choice but to start. He looks like he has some faith in Weimann though although would he start with Bent fit? Clark seemed to get games before his injury so he has done a reasonable job with the youth.

He has failed to get the best out of Zoggy and Albrighton, he has relied on Heskey but for some reason countless manager's have done that!

I know you look at Swansea, Newcastle and Norwich and say why can those teams do so well with squads similar or worse than ours. Well those squads have been promoted together under the same manager and have some continuity and consistency of playing staff and leadership - something that is critical in stability and survival (just look at Everton). Yes Brendan Rogers is doing awesomely at Swansea, but he bailed on Watford and did badly at Reading. Lambert also did the dirty on Colchester but he's done superbly at Norwich so i can't criticise him much. Pardew has been awful as a manager in the past but he's found his place at Newcastle and he has a battle hardened squad who have been through some rough times together, something i almost hope will stand us in good stead in the future with or without Eck.

I know this rambling nonsense above looks like I am absolving Eck of blame, i'm not, i am just trying to get some headspace where we try and divide up emotion from fact. I don't hate Eck, I don't read negativity into everything he says, his a human being who is trying his hardest to steady a sinking ship with a depleted playing squad and a chairman who had really **** things up badly. I want him to do well for the club because i love this club and i believe he wants to do well for the club and all the while he is at the club i have to hope he can do a job - even when that defies logic.

You have to remember how many managers were awful when the first joined their clubs, Fergie is a good example.

My hope is we avoid relegation and Eck leaves in the summer, if Lerner decides to put money into the club then i'm not sure if i can see Eck spending it well - but it is impossible to say whether or not given backing his vision for the team would be anywhere near as bad as some would make out.

what a long post, sorry.

Generally my position on current events at our club with one or two differences so an excellent FAIR post.

[juanpabloangel18]

"I know the lads in the dressing room want to go again, such is the high of the draw and state of mind they are in.

:shock:

[PussEKatt]

We controlled it early on, scored, played o.k for the rest of the half but sat back too much. The second half was too negative but a great effort.

Had we went looking for more goals and lost he would have been panned but he was perhaps too restrained as Liverpool were looking vulnerable until we retreated.

I'm no fan of McLeish but we're a struggling side hammered with injuries and we got a draw at Anfield, which no matter what the circumstances is usually a pretty good effort.

I'm not sure we can be anything but pleased with it.

Celebrating it as some mighty acheivement is not worthy of Aston Villa though.

Wigan won at Anfield and so did a few other teams, why could'ent we ?

Do you think we are aiming too high ? maybe we should try to be as good as Wigan ?!

[Houlston]

Wigan won at Anfield and so did a few other teams, why could'ent we ?

Do you think we are aiming too high ? maybe we should try to be as good as Wigan ?!

Err Wigan won at Liverpool as has one other team which happened to be Arsenal and if you'd seen that game Arsenal got a battering that day too.

So with your logic that because Wigan won there then why dont we I bet Fergie and Mancini are going off their nut.

[thetrees]

We controlled it early on, scored, played o.k for the rest of the half but sat back too much. The second half was too negative but a great effort.

Had we went looking for more goals and lost he would have been panned but he was perhaps too restrained as Liverpool were looking vulnerable until we retreated.

I'm no fan of McLeish but we're a struggling side hammered with injuries and we got a draw at Anfield, which no matter what the circumstances is usually a pretty good effort.

I'm not sure we can be anything but pleased with it.

Celebrating it as some mighty acheivement is not worthy of Aston Villa though.

Wigan won at Anfield and so did a few other teams, why could'ent we ?

Do you think we are aiming too high ? maybe we should try to be as good as Wigan ?!

Wigan lost at Chelsea on Saturday, we inexplicably won there.

Man City conceded any chance of the title to Manure yesterday, a team that they trounced 6-1 at their place.

Football's like that. It doesn't stack up into neat comparisons.

[TrentVilla]

But we hadn't an experienced specialized FB and thats why Hutton was purchased, to exactly strengthen a weakness! You cannot slate a manager for buying what we didn't have and had been crying out for some time. Thats what i mean by slating a manager just because you don't like him.

No we didn't have an experienced specialist RB but we had several players that were experienced and capable of playing there. The point is we didn't have to buy a RB, it was McLeish's choice to buy one and in doing so use some of his limited resources.

We certainly hadn't been "crying out for some time" for a RB, not even remotely.

This isn't hindsight, this isn't a reaction to results. I said at the time we signed Hutton I thought we had other more pressing priorities. It has nothing to do with not liking him and everything to do with no rating him.

I didn't say that purchasing Hutton made AM a victim of circumstance and i would suggest that you stop putting words in my mouth just to suit your debate.

I'm not putting any words in your mouth, I simply disagree with your view that he had to buy a RB. I disagree with you that his hand was forced in this respect, it was his choice, his judgement call. McLeish isn't a victim of anything other than his own poor judgement and woeful approach to the game.

I wholly agree with your point about O'Neill and as previously stated, thats why AM quickly identified the weakness at RB and purchased Hutton.

We didn't have a weakness at RB though as I've already pointed out several times, we had 3 or 4 players who could play there and who all were probably at least as good as Hutton.

Anyway this isn't about Hutton or our need for a RB its about our manager who has been a terrible appointment, has replicated exactly what he did at Birmingham .

Your original point is that McLeish is in some way a victim of circumstance, like none of our failings are his fault, that things have gone against him, that he isn't responsible for the dire football the terrible results and the average signings.

I don't think for one moment anyone thinks McLeish is the only problem at the club but he is no victim of circumstance, there are just too many similarities between our season and his performance at Birmingham to even suggest such a thing.

[CI]

In our current predicament I can't see why people are moaning at a point at anfield

[PussEKatt]

Wigan won at Anfield and so did a few other teams, why could'ent we ?

Do you think we are aiming too high ? maybe we should try to be as good as Wigan ?!

Err Wigan won at Liverpool as has one other team which happened to be Arsenal and if you'd seen that game Arsenal got a battering that day too.

I watched Wigan go down fighting Vs Chelski 2-1 and the first Chelski goal was offside by a mile.

I watched the Liverpool Vs Wigan game and they deserved their win.

I watched the Liverpool Vs Villa game and we were lucky we drew ?!

[Houlston]

Wigan won at Anfield and so did a few other teams, why could'ent we ?

Do you think we are aiming too high ? maybe we should try to be as good as Wigan ?!

Err Wigan won at Liverpool as has one other team which happened to be Arsenal and if you'd seen that game Arsenal got a battering that day too.

I watched Wigan go down fighting Vs Chelski 2-1 and the first Chelski goal was offside by a mile.

I watched the Liverpool Vs Wigan game and they deserved their win.

I watched the Liverpool Vs Villa game and we were lucky we drew ?!

Very good. But theyve still only lost twice at home. A draw at Anfield is a good result, end of.

[macandally]

I am not pro McCleish, he wasn't on my list of managerial choice and i don't think he was on any Villa fans, so much of my criticism of Lerner and our situation stems from his staggering arrogance and delusion in appointing a manager no-one wanted.

But let's look at it from Eck's viewpoint, he was offered a step up from a Championship side - who from what I gather have been sent backwards by multiple owner changes corruption and meddling in managerial affairs. It was rumored that may signings were not down to him and his relationship with the top brass was broken by the end. Now his stupidity at thinking he could walk the divide between two same City clubs who hate each other is baffling, especially with a record that has been less than stellar in recent years. But I find our intense hatred of him is misplaced.

Let's state some facts

1) He inherited a club stripped of it's best players, on the back of a relegation battle that was only won in the last few games. Criminal wages and players alienated by either MON in the past or Houllier in the more recent past. A catalogue of mismanagement, high wages and bad transfer decisions, created a deflated team with very little central technical or creative ability. MON played a system with counter attacking forwards and wingers, there was never a plan B or a central back bone to that team. In my opinion it was more baffling why we failed last season than this season as Milner aside much of the team that MON had were still there last season, some would say Houller did make us play in a much more passing and technical way by the end, but i don't think we would be much better off under him once Downing and Young were gone - nor would we be much worse!

2) I don't think Eck plays negatively on purpose, but there are times you get the impression he doesn't believe in the squad he has - or rather he is still getting to know and understand the players he has. We just expected him to come in on a wave of negative press and vibe with a bunch of players who have seen their team mates sold off or been frozen out of the team.

3) What Eck did wrong was continuously fail to work out how to play the players he has and get the best from Nzogbia, but he needed time and patience, time and patience that we weren't prepared to give him because collectively we are all hurting from what happened with MON, what happened with Houllier and the players who have left, and the manner of his appointment.

4) The cruel irony is when Ireland, Zoggy and Keane were on the pitch we didn't play negatively, Hutton looked ok and you could see what Eck was trying to do. This doesn't excuse all the other terrible performances and tactics deployed but you have to look at what Eck has been given to work with. If Zog, Dunne, Clark, Bent, Petrov were all available i genuinely think we would have found a few more wins by now and be close to safety. I am not saying we be anywhere near the team we should be and Eck embraced and about too live happily ever after, but people have to admit our injury problems this season have been appalling, in fact over the last two seasons they have completely destroyed any sees of hope of momentum we have had, our luck has been a **** disgrace.

5) Eck did manage to get Ireland, Cuellar playing and playing well, Petrov and Gabby looked pretty decent and rejuvenated at times. He brought Warnock back from the brink, ok so the jury is out on Warnock and maybe still on Hutton but both have looked quite solid of late. He has also done pretty well with the youngsters although he hasn't really stuck with any of them through choice, Herd is the only player guaranteed to start when fit, Bannan, Lichaj, Gardener and Baker are all cameos or players who we have no choice but to start. He looks like he has some faith in Weimann though although would he start with Bent fit? Clark seemed to get games before his injury so he has done a reasonable job with the youth.

He has failed to get the best out of Zoggy and Albrighton, he has relied on Heskey but for some reason countless manager's have done that!

I know you look at Swansea, Newcastle and Norwich and say why can those teams do so well with squads similar or worse than ours. Well those squads have been promoted together under the same manager and have some continuity and consistency of playing staff and leadership - something that is critical in stability and survival (just look at Everton). Yes Brendan Rogers is doing awesomely at Swansea, but he bailed on Watford and did badly at Reading. Lambert also did the dirty on Colchester but he's done superbly at Norwich so i can't criticise him much. Pardew has been awful as a manager in the past but he's found his place at Newcastle and he has a battle hardened squad who have been through some rough times together, something i almost hope will stand us in good stead in the future with or without Eck.

I know this rambling nonsense above looks like I am absolving Eck of blame, i'm not, i am just trying to get some headspace where we try and divide up emotion from fact. I don't hate Eck, I don't read negativity into everything he says, his a human being who is trying his hardest to steady a sinking ship with a depleted playing squad and a chairman who had really **** things up badly. I want him to do well for the club because i love this club and i believe he wants to do well for the club and all the while he is at the club i have to hope he can do a job - even when that defies logic.

You have to remember how many managers were awful when the first joined their clubs, Fergie is a good example.

My hope is we avoid relegation and Eck leaves in the summer, if Lerner decides to put money into the club then i'm not sure if i can see Eck spending it well - but it is impossible to say whether or not given backing his vision for the team would be anywhere near as bad as some would make out.

what a long post, sorry.

Generally my position on current events at our club with one or two differences so an excellent FAIR post.

So because it agrees with your position, its fair??

Personally I would have saved the time in writing it as McLeish knew the situation he was inheriting for a meer 2 million a year, he obviously thought that despite that lowly salary, he could do something at Villa.

Unfortunately, the facts show that he has managed to achieve bugger all apart from alienate and blame half the first team, generally be a smug bastard to the fans when reaping his haul of 6 wins and played a style of football not seen since the Ardenne in 1914.

Not his fault my arse.

[PeteStan]

I am not pro McCleish, he wasn't on my list of managerial choice and i don't think he was on any Villa fans, so much of my criticism of Lerner and our situation stems from his staggering arrogance and delusion in appointing a manager no-one wanted.

But let's look at it from Eck's viewpoint, he was offered a step up from a Championship side - who from what I gather have been sent backwards by multiple owner changes corruption and meddling in managerial affairs. It was rumored that may signings were not down to him and his relationship with the top brass was broken by the end. Now his stupidity at thinking he could walk the divide between two same City clubs who hate each other is baffling, especially with a record that has been less than stellar in recent years. But I find our intense hatred of him is misplaced.

Let's state some facts

1) He inherited a club stripped of it's best players, on the back of a relegation battle that was only won in the last few games. Criminal wages and players alienated by either MON in the past or Houllier in the more recent past. A catalogue of mismanagement, high wages and bad transfer decisions, created a deflated team with very little central technical or creative ability. MON played a system with counter attacking forwards and wingers, there was never a plan B or a central back bone to that team. In my opinion it was more baffling why we failed last season than this season as Milner aside much of the team that MON had were still there last season, some would say Houller did make us play in a much more passing and technical way by the end, but i don't think we would be much better off under him once Downing and Young were gone - nor would we be much worse!

2) I don't think Eck plays negatively on purpose, but there are times you get the impression he doesn't believe in the squad he has - or rather he is still getting to know and understand the players he has. We just expected him to come in on a wave of negative press and vibe with a bunch of players who have seen their team mates sold off or been frozen out of the team.

3) What Eck did wrong was continuously fail to work out how to play the players he has and get the best from Nzogbia, but he needed time and patience, time and patience that we weren't prepared to give him because collectively we are all hurting from what happened with MON, what happened with Houllier and the players who have left, and the manner of his appointment.

4) The cruel irony is when Ireland, Zoggy and Keane were on the pitch we didn't play negatively, Hutton looked ok and you could see what Eck was trying to do. This doesn't excuse all the other terrible performances and tactics deployed but you have to look at what Eck has been given to work with. If Zog, Dunne, Clark, Bent, Petrov were all available i genuinely think we would have found a few more wins by now and be close to safety. I am not saying we be anywhere near the team we should be and Eck embraced and about too live happily ever after, but people have to admit our injury problems this season have been appalling, in fact over the last two seasons they have completely destroyed any sees of hope of momentum we have had, our luck has been a **** disgrace.

5) Eck did manage to get Ireland, Cuellar playing and playing well, Petrov and Gabby looked pretty decent and rejuvenated at times. He brought Warnock back from the brink, ok so the jury is out on Warnock and maybe still on Hutton but both have looked quite solid of late. He has also done pretty well with the youngsters although he hasn't really stuck with any of them through choice, Herd is the only player guaranteed to start when fit, Bannan, Lichaj, Gardener and Baker are all cameos or players who we have no choice but to start. He looks like he has some faith in Weimann though although would he start with Bent fit? Clark seemed to get games before his injury so he has done a reasonable job with the youth.

He has failed to get the best out of Zoggy and Albrighton, he has relied on Heskey but for some reason countless manager's have done that!

I know you look at Swansea, Newcastle and Norwich and say why can those teams do so well with squads similar or worse than ours. Well those squads have been promoted together under the same manager and have some continuity and consistency of playing staff and leadership - something that is critical in stability and survival (just look at Everton). Yes Brendan Rogers is doing awesomely at Swansea, but he bailed on Watford and did badly at Reading. Lambert also did the dirty on Colchester but he's done superbly at Norwich so i can't criticise him much. Pardew has been awful as a manager in the past but he's found his place at Newcastle and he has a battle hardened squad who have been through some rough times together, something i almost hope will stand us in good stead in the future with or without Eck.

I know this rambling nonsense above looks like I am absolving Eck of blame, i'm not, i am just trying to get some headspace where we try and divide up emotion from fact. I don't hate Eck, I don't read negativity into everything he says, his a human being who is trying his hardest to steady a sinking ship with a depleted playing squad and a chairman who had really **** things up badly. I want him to do well for the club because i love this club and i believe he wants to do well for the club and all the while he is at the club i have to hope he can do a job - even when that defies logic.

You have to remember how many managers were awful when the first joined their clubs, Fergie is a good example.

My hope is we avoid relegation and Eck leaves in the summer, if Lerner decides to put money into the club then i'm not sure if i can see Eck spending it well - but it is impossible to say whether or not given backing his vision for the team would be anywhere near as bad as some would make out.

what a long post, sorry.

Sorry Villanous I have only just read this.

Congratulations on a sensible, intelligent appraisal of the situation and Alex McLeish's position and performance.

Well done Sir, my feelings entirely. If only a few more could be a bit more objective.

[Zatman]

Wigan won at Anfield and so did a few other teams, why could'ent we ?

Do you think we are aiming too high ? maybe we should try to be as good as Wigan ?!

Wigna had a full team, Villa went there missing all our key players, arguably our result was better under circiumstances

[Zatman]

in fairness McLeish he deserves credit for actually giving the youngsters a game, you could say injuries forced him but he has given CArruthers a game when other managers would have just left him as a unused substitute